Along the axis

6

You can draw a line from the western shore of Gaza to Kashmir and not find a nation that isn't in violent conflict. Jordan is the one exception, led by a generally benevolent constitutional monarchy. It is a kind of axis, but not of evil. More like an Axis of Discord.

In Gaza, former Democratic Congresswoman and Green Party presidential candidate Cynthia McKinney...

...spoke from an Israeli cell block regarding her mission of delivering supplies to Gaza.

McKinney was carrying crayons in her suitcase, and she intended to deliver them to Palestinian children. No word yet on how she many she intended to retain for her upcoming white papers and policy statements. The New York Times reports that the Israeli military will forward the confiscated supplies to Gaza, crayons and all. VOA reports that Israel and the U.S. are coming close to an agreement on settlements. Hamas' position on removing Israel from the general area remains unchanged.

In Saudi Arabia, the religious police are cracking down.

Saudi Arabian authorities have charged 67 men detained at a party for reportedly wearing women’s clothing.

Most of the men were Filipino and were arrested while standing outside a private party held in a villa near the Saudi capital, Riyadh, on the occasion of Philippine Independence Day.

According to the Saudi daily Al Riyadh, the police questioned the men after spotting "suspicious behavior" and then proceeded to raid the party. More women's clothing, cosmetics, and alcohol were reportedly found in further investigations.


If convicted, they face imprisonment and flogging. With the Saudi regime now safe from cross-dressing Filipinos, perhaps they can now pay a little more attention to the slightly more serious problems of militant Salafis and fundamentalist Wahhabism.

In Iraq, you know the situation has improved when Barack Obama deems it safe enough to send--and for Nouri al Maliki to receive--the dumbass who is our vice president. It looks like Biden stuck closely to his script, to the relief (I assume) of many in the White House. Unsurprisingly, with a smaller security presence, the door is opened to more spectacular attacks.

The vice president's visit coincides with a spike in violence, with several bloody bombings in Baghdad and a car bomb in Kirkuk. Tuesday, more than 30 people were killed by a powerful car bomb in Kirkuk.

[...]

June was the bloodiest month in the last eight in terms of Iraqi civilian casualties, according to Iraqi government figures, and both northern cities of Kirkuk and Mosul remain powderkegs.


I'm sure several on the left will say the smaller U.S. military footprint and the uptick in violence is all just one big coincidence, and they might even quote some Latin.

In FBI interviews with Saddam Hussein, it turns out that the ousted Iraqi dictator lied, and people died:

In a series of interrogations before his execution, Saddam Hussein told an F.B.I. agent that on the eve of the 2003 American invasion, Iraq was trapped between United Nations orders to demonstrate that it had disarmed and a fear that appearing too weak would invite attack from its powerful neighbor and foe, Iran.

The ousted Iraqi dictator "was more concerned about Iran discovering Iraq’s weaknesses and vulnerabilities than the repercussions of the United States for his refusal to allow U.N. inspectors back into Iraq," according to a summary of questioning by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The inspectors, he feared, "would have directly identified to the Iranians where to inflict maximum damage to Iraq," he told the F.B.I.


He was a disingenuous bastard 'til the sticky end.
Mr. Hussein told the F.B.I. that if United Nations sanctions against his country had been lifted, Iraq would have sought a security agreement with the United States to protect it from Iran.

I wonder if it ever occurred to the son-of-a-bitch that if he didn't constantly violate binding UNSC resolutions that he might not have been slapped with all those sanctions.

In Iran, prostesting against the regime could result in a wrung neck, as it did for six Mousavi supporters. Additional arrests are underway in the nation that is comparatively breezy with freedom. Former president Khatami has joined the anti-regime chorus, saying that the presidential election was a "coup" against democracy. Brave man. Mousavi went public a couple of days ago and declared the Iranian government "illegitimate". Another brave man.

The Mullah leaders are delusional to think they can successfully blame non-Iranian influences for the unrest, though they continue this path by putting arrested British embassy employees before a kangaroo court. Nico Pitney and the Berman Post have more updates, and Pitney linked to this Nation piece. A stunning paragraph:

A few days before the vote, as Moussavi's "Green Wave" began to crest, there were already signs that things might get ugly. On June 9 a widely reported leak from the Interior Ministry said that Ayatollah Mohammad-Taqi Mesbah Yazdi had issued a fatwa permitting vote counters to manipulate the results in favor of the candidate who is truly a devotee of Islam. "To you, as administrators of the election, everything is permitted to this end," Mesbah Yazdi wrote. The ayatollah, who is Ahmadinejad's chief sponsor among the clerical elite in Qom, Iran's religious capital, is also godfather to a network of scholars and activists from the ideologically rigid Haqqani School, which he established. For that network--which includes many of Ahmadinejad's IRGC allies--the word of Mesbah Yazdi is law. The following day, June 10, Yadollah Javani, ideological czar of the IRGC, issued a warning that the regime was prepared to take strong action against the Green Wave movement, which had burst onto the scene to back Moussavi. "There are many indications that some extremist [i.e., reformist] groups have designed a 'color' revolution," said Javani. "Any attempt at a velvet revolution will be nipped in the bud." It was a chilling reminder of who had the guns.

A riveting article from that pinko communist rag. In a strange move, the Obama administration is against additional sanctions against the illegitimate Iranian regime. WTF?:
Why would the Obama administration oppose using sanctions as a diplomatic and economic device to put pressure on the Iranian mullahs to reform? They are telling other G-8 diplomats that they feel the sanctions will “backfire”, driving Iran away from the negotiating table, where Obama thinks we can talk Iran out of their nuclear weapons.

In other words, the fantasy continues. While the rest of the world wants to get tough on Iran, creating more internal pressure on the mullahs by increasing their isolation, Obama wants to allow them to suffer no consequences at all for their oppression and to strip the opposition of a legitimate issue — that the mullahs have made Iran a pariah nation.


It is not a little baffling that Obama has been walking on eggshells around the mullahs but bellicose on small, harmless Honduras. Pussy.

[Update:] It looks like Mousavi was kicked out of the Hardliners Club. The mullahs are looking more deranged now that they're saying he's a U.S. agent. If he's arrested and tried for treason, then Iran will deserve a good cleansing revolution.[/End update:]

In Afghanistan, U.S. forces are moving closer toward a classic counterinsurgency strategy, something that the Marines have already been doing for over a year in Helmand. Herschel Smith has been covering this as well as anyone. The same network that kidnapped a New York Times reporter has captured a U.S. soldier and is being held by the Taliban. Troubling.

In Pakistan, the people are finally figuring out that the Taliban are a "critical threat". They also aren't too thrilled with the U.S. and U.S.-instigated drone attacks.

It's hard to find much new information on the operation in Swat, just casualty reports. What we do know is that there are over two million internally displaced refugees, and Pakistani authorities won't let Americans in to distribute aid, giving Islamist charities an advantage. The military is doing little in Waziristan, even though tribal leaders tore up a 16-month old peace agreement. I'm not optimistic about the doings of the Pakistani army. After all, Pakistan is now the suicide bombing capital of the world, thanks to the ISI and other factions.

Whew.
--

"I think the vice president misrepresented what the vice president wanted to say."

--Robert Gibbs



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LOL! Cynthia McKinney in....

(#172962)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

...Tyler Perry's Madea Goes To Jerusalem.

-“It is unwise for the government to tell people how they can spend their money” - Barney Frank, Chairman House Financial Services Committee, on on-line gambling, 2009

Why don't you recognize this

(#172659)

Seems like Cynthia McKinney's actions are courageous and kind-hearted. Why don't you recognize this instead of infantilizing her?

Why stop at Kashmir? You can continue on to India and find discord there.
http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13900099

In Bangladesh police intervene in garment workers strike, shooting them:
http://libcom.org/news/more-mayhem-cops-kill-again-garment-workers-rioting-continues-bangladesh-28062009

A continued crack down against journalists in Sri Lanka:
http://www.frontline.in/stories/20090717261405400.htm

In Myanmar, there are continuing attacks on the Karen, things are looking very bad for them. There is also the repression of democratic opposition to the government.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2009/06/20096185344614827.html

In Thailand there is large scale disruption over the issue of Thaksin's removal by military coup.
http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-07-03-voa17.cfm

I'm not sure if I could draw this line of discord much further, but clearly it goes beyond Kashmir. Offhand I'd guess you ignore this out of your desire to highlight conflict in Muslim lands.

Nothing resembles virtue more than a great crime. Saint-Just

Cynthia McKinney believes Americans landed on Mars.

(#172938)

A certain level of zaniness in politicians can be entertaining (witness the elevation of Al Franken) but as some point you have to conclude that certain people are not packing full sea chests. Love the hair, though.

Politicians spend our money like a pimp with only a week to live.  CJ Boxx

Prove That We Didn't!!

(#172943)

Also you're confusing Al Franken the comedian with Al Franken the politician. Actually, you sorta confused about Franken generally -- he was more a deadpan stylist than a zany. And as a pol? A little on the soporific side.

“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco

No way, man - I saw OJ in the movie

(#172945)

and then I read about it on the net while drinking a Slusho. Just before weasels ripped my flesh.

All I remember about Franken is that he played a mental defective flawlessly in some of his skits.

Politicians spend our money like a pimp with only a week to live.  CJ Boxx

Getting Michael Jordan to look in a mirror

(#172949)

and run the "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough" bit was one of the best TV moments of the past 30 years. One of those America in a nutshell things.

Alright, you want classic repartee, I'll whip this out:

(#172950)

Elliot Gould vs. Telly Savalas in Capricorn One.

Savalas: "I got one son who became a lawyer. I think he's a pervert so I took my name away from him."

Politicians spend our money like a pimp with only a week to live.  CJ Boxx

Let me finish, Dmitri!

(#172953)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWP_rEWG2xk

"Just ask for Omsk information" is the part that cracks me up.

There is increased conflict in Muslim lands,

(#172688)

and the interface areas with other societies - it is not incorrect to note that. And yes, there is some relationship between the exclusivity of that particular faith versus others. There is exclusivity built into all Semitic faiths IMO, but the others have learned to mellow. Also and IMO again, and as an anti-theist, it is probably needed for peace in the world for this particular faith to mellow, acknowledge its manifest errors and move forwards.

It is also true that there is much conflict, most of it is rich v poor, or powerful v powerless.

mellow yellow

(#172749)

You don't blame the Muslim faith for the troubles in Gaza, do you? Kashmir?

Generally, I favour a pacifist approach to solving problems, but this does not always work. Being mellow is not the solution to all problems. I recognize that faith can put some steel in your spine.

Nothing resembles virtue more than a great crime. Saint-Just

Oh no, I don't attach huge significance to Islam

(#172753)

as a cause for conflict, although it is not without some significance. Palestine, NW Indian subcontinent have been flashpoints for millennia.

By mellow, I meant the secular leaders of Islam giving up on its current hardline positions (as the RC Church has done) on intolerance of other faiths, creationism, alternative lifestyles, unequal treatment of women and so on. My idea of a "better" Islam, if you will, is derived from our traditional syncretic positions - Faiz, Ghalib etc.

Look up http://www.razarumi.com for a modern Pakistani blog about how this could be done. A description of last months "urs" in Ajmer in North India, where both Hindus' and Muslims have thronged in large numbers from the 12th century, bombed, presumably by militants, 2 years ago.

I hope too that the day of better Islam will come

(#172848)

I hope too that the day of better Islam will come. I don't think it will come as long as there is a feeling that they are under attack. In fact the siege mentality tends to militate against the reforms that we want to see.

Nothing resembles virtue more than a great crime. Saint-Just

Islam won't change willingly. It will be done by force, alas

(#172875)

and it will result in the deaths of millions. Islam is no different than Christianity or the religion of the Aztecs or the Maya or Hinduism or State Shinto. They're all the same. The priests all want political power and the politicians all want the Imprimatur of the Religious. It's a nasty, vicious cycle.

Every religion acts all put-upon and persecuted when in point of fact they're the agent of persecution where they gain any political ascendancy. Islam cannot be mollified into behaving itself: don't delude yourself into believing otherwise. Individuals are quite capable, indeed prefer to behave themselves reasonably. But when some weak-minded individual buckles on the Sword and Shield of Religion, watch out, because these are no longer reasonable people.

these people don't want to be reasonable

(#172886)

I agree with what you're saying here. I should point out in case you've missed the obvious, that millions are dying. As I write this. No need to use the future tense. No end in sight either as far as I can tell.

these are no longer reasonable people

I always have a laugh over this. It crops up all the time here in discussions about the Palestinians. 'Why can't these people be reasonable and just give up?' is how it usually goes. Well, these people don't want to be reasonable. They want to win.

I've spent enough time around Muslims to know that their faith for them is a source of strength and comfort. And I know there are bigots and chauvinists among them. Such bigots are probably useful from time to time, but I think they will have to be overcome if my vision for a Palestinian victory, informed by a Christian education, is to become a reality. The Christian faith tells us to love our enemies, to forgive if not forget. There is nothing reasonable in what Jesus demands of us.

Nothing resembles virtue more than a great crime. Saint-Just

If McKinney just wanted to deliver crayons, etc.

(#172675)

she didn't have to try to breach a blockade. There are existing avenues for delivering humanitarian supplies and using those methods would just as easily demonstrate her kindheartedness. No, it's apparent that she did it for political grandstanding purposes. Plus, she doesn't like Jews very much.

As for stopping at Kashmir, like I said, I drew a line from Point A to Point B. A straight line, hence the word "axis". A 1,325-word diary is long enough, and you're more than welcome to write your own diary on these other areas. But hey, thanks for impugning my motives. It made my day.


"I think BDog would make this place interesting." --catchy

devilizing Cynthia

(#172682)

I think breaching the blockade was part of the plan. You don't appear to have thought this through. If it's your contempt for Cynthia that's preventing you from clear thinking, then ignore her. Focus on the Irish woman. Why on earth would she put her life at risk delivering aid to a refugee camp in the middle east, you might consider asking yourself.

A perceived lack of space made you come up with the notion of an axis of discord between Gaza and Kashmir? That is ridiculous. I tried, using hypertext links, to show briefly that the discord you speak of extends beyond the Muslim world. That isn't to say your area doesn't have its problems. It does. But the Karen have been fighting for their independence every bit as long as the Palestinians or the Kashmiris. And the turmoil in Thailand now is similar in many ways to the recent events of Iran. Seeing these common threads helps us to gain a deeper understanding of any of the areas that we focus our attention on. That is useful analysis. What you are engaged in here in this diary is propaganda. If you are not devilizing Cynthia, you're devilizing Muslims.

Nothing resembles virtue more than a great crime. Saint-Just

Memo To The Soon-To-Be Incoming Troika

(#172711)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Would you please consider explicitly designating "you're dishonest/stupid/otherwise wrong because you didn't write the diary the way *I* would have" comments as inherently uncivil and therefore against the posting rules, particularly if repeated after the diarist treats the first one with appropriate contempt and makes a "go write it yourself and stop whining" response?

Just my two cents.

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.--from Ulysses, by Alfred, Lord Tennyson

read it again

(#172747)

It's not what he didn't write, but what he wrote that I'm objecting to. If Bird Dog doesn't want to stand behind what he wrote then let him retract it. Otherwise let him engage, which is presumably what he wants from commentatoes here, having posted the thing in a public forum. S/he doesn't need your protection or your new rules.

Nothing resembles virtue more than a great crime. Saint-Just

When I See The "Stop Running To X's Defense" Riff. . .

(#172748)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .I take it as a tacit acknowledgment by the commenter that they know their conduct is in violation of the rules, and that their only defense is to intimidate others who point this out into butting out. It never works. You misunderstand *my* comments--I'm saying that comments such as the ones you've made in this subthread are already in violation of the rules, and I want to remove the potential defense of plausible ignorance of the rules for future such comments. As it happens, the "stop butting in" complaint does that job nicely. You've effectively admitted that you're in violation of the rules. Knock it off.

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.--from Ulysses, by Alfred, Lord Tennyson

What rules

(#172751)

What rules? What are you talking about?

There is one thing worse than running to defend another against an imaginary breach of posting rules. That is running to defend oneself.

Congratulations. You have done both. Keep it up!

Nothing resembles virtue more than a great crime. Saint-Just

Karnak Award

(#172693)

I don't feel contempt toward McKinney. I don't have strong feelings about her at all. Her act had more to do with chutzpah than bravery, and it had much more to do with political grandstanding than delivering humanitarian supplies. These activists know that the Israeli navy isn't going to fire missiles at 'em. Oh, and I didn't "devilize" McKinney, I poked a little fun at her.

I already told you my method for selecting the countries for this post, and I don't care if you're put out that I didn't select the countries you wanted me to select. This is my diary, not yours, and I get to pick the topics as I choose. If you honestly believe that I'm not aware of discord outside the Muslim world, then I suggest that you're the one who's being ridiculous.


"I think BDog would make this place interesting." --catchy

I don't care what countries you write about

(#172746)

You are not making fun of Cynthia. You are infantilizing her and calling her a Jew hater. Where's the fun in that? If you really have no strong feelings about her at all, why are you so ready to impugn her motives in an action that seems both generous and courageous. How about Mairead Corrigan Maguire? Is she another self aggrandizing kike basher? She was in the same boat, after all.

I don't care what countries you write about in your diaries. I was objecting to the ridiculous 'axis of discord' label you came up with. It's dishonest propaganda. I gave the the reasons for this already. You can continue to ignore my point if you wish.

Nothing resembles virtue more than a great crime. Saint-Just

Another Karnak Award

(#172771)

For telling me that I'm not making fun of McKinney. You're so far to the left, it's clear to me that you don't have the first clue as to what I'm thinking. I advise that do something other than lolling about in this intellectually dishonest and lazy form of discourse.

Here's another suggestion. Saying something like, "Ah ha, why didn't write about THIS!" is a bullsh*t line of argument.

Another thing. I didn't put out propaganda, and it wasn't dishonest. I drew a geographical line, and wrote about the discord along that geographical line, using facts from credible sources. Your wanting me to draw a different line is not my problem.


"I think BDog would make this place interesting." --catchy

the same line

(#172847)

About your thinking, you are correct, I don't know. But I am commenting here on what you write and what you don't write.

You are drawing a line from A to B and saying this is an 'axis of discord.' I point out that there is discord in C, D and E along the very same geographical line that connects A to B. It's not a different line I'm talking about, it's the same one. If I say 'all roads lead to the outskirts of Rome' when in fact they lead to Rome, you would rightly take me to task for failing to appreciate the essential truth of the matter. If I answer, 'of course, I know that the road continues on to Rome, but the road from here to the outskirts of Rome is shorter and more easily managed conceptually' you would still rightly accuse me of failing to understand the matter.

What merit, other than brevity, is there in cutting off and ignoring the troubles outside the area that interests you? You still haven't explained that. I assumed it was the fact that beyond Kashmir, the Muslim population tends to thin out. Maybe it's lack of awareness: CNN doesn't really pay much attention to the plight of the Karen, the pogroms in Sri Lanka, or unrest in the other areas I pointed out to you. Perhaps these concerns are too leftist for you... as you say, I don't have a clue what you are thinking, but you shouldn't assume that anyone else does either unless you make the effort to clearly tell us what's on your mind.

Nothing resembles virtue more than a great crime. Saint-Just

Let's get a few things straight

(#172919)

First, you weren't just commenting on what I did and did not write, you commented at least twice on what you thought I was thinking, which is mindreading, which is an an uninquisitive and intellectually dishonest tactic. It enables the offender (you) to make sh*t up, and it conveniently and invariably bolsters the point the person is trying to make at the expense of the person whose mind has been mined. It's a dirty form of discussion and, in my opinion, it is a posting rules violation.

Second, you didn't just point out that I didn't write about your preferred axis or axes, you impugned my intellect by using a bullsh*t line of argument, that somehow failing to write something that aligns with your mental framework means that I lack this "deeper understanding" that you implicitly have and that I explicitly do not. Talk about arrogance, especially considering your "I am right and you're not" conclusion about what the line is and where it should be and how far it should go. That isn't discourse, it's you engaging in self-righteous lecturing. I don't march to your little socialist class-warfare agenda, and I refuse to be bandied and bullied about not writing about your little preferred topics. If those other topics animate you, then by all means, write a diary yourself or find an open thread.

Also, I didn't call it the Axis of Discord, I said that you could it an Axis of Discord, which clearly means that I recognize that there is more than one axis out there. The axis that I chose has a distinct militant Islamist flavor to it, and I'm sure that there other axes with other flavors. You obviously had another flavor in mind.

The thing is, Micky, I wouldn't have minded reading about those other areas of conflict that you mentioned, had you not impugned my motives in the process. Too bad, really, that you had to be so f*cking rude about it.


"I think BDog would make this place interesting." --catchy

I don't understand

(#172997)

I don't understand your obsession over mind reading. I said you were infantilizing McKinney when you wrote that she should keep the crayons for writing position papers. You said you were only making fun of her. I also said that you ignored trouble in the region as long as Muslims weren't involved. You said you didn't have space to cover non Muslims. Where does mind reading come into any of this? If I don't like something I read, I state so, forcefully. This has nothing to do with mind reading.

Nothing resembles virtue more than a great crime. Saint-Just

I didn't object to "infantilizing"

(#173012)

I objected to "devilizing". You should keep better track of what you said.

As for mindreading, I've already explained my objections, and if you continue to not understand them, then think harder.


"I think BDog would make this place interesting." --catchy

couple things

(#172923)

number one, if mind reading is going to be a posting rules violation, then who do i lobby to make your frequent, obnoxious, profanity-laden and predictable hissy fits "posting rules violations" as well?

number two, "i am right and you are not -" is that a paraphrase? or is mind reading? similarly, "you obviously have another flavor in mind" -- is that a characterization of the commenter's expression, or mind reading? similarly, if you characterize someone as an idiot or a clown as you frequently do with your perceived enemies, is it fair for a commenter here to say point that out? will all paraphrasing, summary, or characterization of your comments here be considered "mind reading" and then loudly and profanely shouted down as "posting rules violations", if they hurt your feelings?

Member of the Forvm Five

If you think my comments have breached the PRs,

(#172929)

take it to the troika, don't whine about it to me.

Micky made no secret that his view of the axis (or his axis) was the right one, evidenced by his repeated statements that mine fell short in various ways. That isn't mindreading, it's basic reading comprehension.

In defending Micky, you're mischaracterizing what I said about McKinney, which comes as no surprise. In your history of comments towards me, you've consistently bypassed talking about the topic at hand and instead chose to impugn my integrity in one fashion or another.


"I think BDog would make this place interesting." --catchy

There are some questions surrounding the troika

(#172934)

that will be worked out eventually, and until they are I'm reluctant to take any troika like actions. However, I want to let you know dropping f-bombs with asterisks is completely unnecessary. I'm sympathetic to where you're coming here, I don't like my arguments being twisted in way to paint me as the stereotypical racist conservative either. But between that and the horse's behind picture you're displaying a pattern of intemperate behavior that, had the last election not had its technical glitches, I'd have emailed the other mods over. I think it would be best if you dialed it back.

"We should not tie the hands of law enforcement in the effort to bring these terrorists to justice"- Leon E. Panetta

ha, reading comprehension....

(#172932)

you'll notice i don't think your hissy fit was a PRV (aside from teh profanity, which i honestly don't give a f*ck about). just wondering... if we are rewriting the rules to accomodate you mindreading problems why not look at your own conduct?

also -- guess what? you put up picture of mckinney looking and acting like an ass, i think its fair to say you hold her in contempt. you wanna call it something else, fine, whatever.

but it's you who are being dishonest here. i think mickey was saying (and i am paraphasing here, if may), hey you got a problem with mckinney? that's understandable -- but look at some of the other folks involved in the action, and address the action itself rather than hiding it behind an unflattering picture of one of the participants.

now you turn around and say that its "dishonest" to characterize your view of mckinney. guess what? no one gives a cr*p what you think of mickinney, thats kind of the point. you're dishonestly crying to the mods about PRVs while avoiding the actual issue at hand-- mckinney's breach of israeli security -- rather than her crazy eyes and her weirdo speech.

now you want to bring up your hurt feelings about my interactions with you as a way of dismissing what i say out of hand? fine with me. not particularly surprising and in fact fits right in with the pattern, doesn't it?

edit:

p.s. in my recollection, many times i actually have a substantive question on topic for you, you do not reply. that's fine, you're not obliged to. you'd rather focus on teh pain, i guess.

Member of the Forvm Five

Yes indeed

(#172956)

If you're making crap up about a person via mindreading, then such an attack is directed at the person and not the comment. In my opinion, that's closer to a PRV than a strong reply. Make sense?

You wrote, "if mind reading is going to be a posting rules violation, then who do i lobby to make your frequent, obnoxious, profanity-laden and predictable hissy fits 'posting rules violations' as well?" I advised you to take it to the troika, but I guess your question was unserious to begin with, so pardon me for answering.

You mischaracterized my comment about McKinney because I don't consider her an enemy, perceived or otherwise. I do believe that she's a left-wing wacko who doesn't like Jews very much. An example of her wacko-ness was her alleging that Bush had advance knowledge of the 9/11 attacks and allowed them to happen anyway, for financial reasons:

"We know there were numerous warnings of the events to come on September 11th. . . . What did this administration know and when did it know it, about the events of September 11th? Who else knew, and why did they not warn the innocent people of New York who were needlessly murdered? . . . What do they have to hide?"

She was one of the original 9/11 Truthers. Her problems with Jews have been well-documented for a while. Another thing, has it occurred to you that the picture that made her look a little nutty is perhaps because she actually is a little nutty? There was nothing photo-shopped about the image, she was speaking in front of microphones and cameras, and she chose her own hairdo and facial expressions.

Micky's comment about other protesters was rather pointless. The link to the New York Times was there, and it said that the Jews held 19 foreigners, McKinney being one of them. She was the only American that the NYT named, and she was the one who went on Pacifica Radio to give her spiel. My opinion of the Free Gaza Movement's attempts to run a boat through the blockade is that they were trying a publicity stunt, and McKinney has shown over the years that she doesn't shy from publicity. My opinion concerning McKinney's involvement in the organization is that the Free Gaza Movement is not doing itself any favors by inviting a whackjob and likely anti-Semite into their band. Micky has a different opinion. But thanks for calling me dishonest. Nice work.

As to my replying to your "substantive questions", I did. Your graphs were interesting, but provided no additional information to what I already cited. No need for you to get all hissy about it. But yesterday, Obama did warn of the very thing I suggested.

President Obama Friday warned of rising violence as U.S. troops pull out of Iraqi cities and urged Baghdad to do more to end strife with ethnic and religious factions.

So if Bird Dog says it, not true, but if Obama says it, true? Or maybe you can send him Latin phrases too, or maybe get word to him that it's all just one big coincidence.


"I think BDog would make this place interesting." --catchy

trying to be brief here

(#172971)

re: mckinney -- so she's a wacko. i get that. not disagreeing.

re: you paragraph 4. finally, you tell us your opinion of the event itself rather than just whether mckinney is a wacko. that this was a publicity stunt was self-evident, and i think it was in fact the point. it was patently a publicity stunt. the point being that many feel the blockade gaza unfairly and unnecessarily deprives a great many civilians of much needed aid. i disagree that micky's question was pointless. he's asking you to consider the point of the publicity stunt, not their dubious choice of representatives. and let me go further here and say that i can understand and possibly agree with arguments pro and con of that blockade. you haven't made any such arguments, though, you are just pointing and laughing at someones crazy eyes. if dishonest is to harsh than perhaps you'll accept the charatcerization that the line of argument is "male cow dung" as you like to call other people's comments (apologies, sulla.)

lastly, and this is getting off topic here but you brought it up -- you and obama do not agree on causes, which was my point. i kindly supplied you with the charts to evaluate your argument at least in factual terms (your welcome for that). i don't disbelieve you or believe obama -- i'm looking at charts. we agree -- if you'll see my post -- that the violence can indeed be considered to be steady and threatens to rise.

you warn that an uptick in violence shows the folly of a timetable for withdrawal. we do not agree -- nor does obama, presumably -- that this uptick can be attributed to the timetable.

Member of the Forvm Five

I'm glad you get that

(#173009)

But if we're agreed that she's a wacko, why the umbrage over the picture that truthfully portrays her in her wacko glory?

We also don't disagree that she was engaged in a publicity stunt. Micky preferred to see her as "courageous and kindhearted", which is his opinion, of course. He sees one side (as does McKinney) but said nothing about the reason for the blockade in the first place. If Hamas didn't bring in weapons by land and sea to kill Jews, there wouldn't be a need for a blockade, and McKinney and her merry band wouldn't have a reason for being on that boat. It's clear to me that she's more interested in treating symptons than the real problem. To me, providing humanitarian supplies is a noble, but pulling a stunt for something that Hamas caused in the first is just a stunt, nothing more.

As for Obama, he was laying out a marker that the situation will be more dangerous with a disappeared American footprint in Iraqi cities. The SFA was agreed to in December, and forces were reducing in significant numbers since then. Two of the last three months were pretty bad, as the numbers make clear, and he was clearly warning of more violence. Of course he's not going to say "I blame the timetable" for the increased violence, but he's warning of it anyway. He also has said next to nothing about using the same counterinsurgency strategy in Afghanistan that McCain proposed, but he's approving one anyway. In that regard, he's just like Bush in that he doesn't admit to his mistakes.


"I think BDog would make this place interesting." --catchy

Alright

(#172937)

the profanity, with asterisks and without, is starting to get out of hand. Dial it back or I'll be forced to take actions I'd rather not in an interim role.

"We should not tie the hands of law enforcement in the effort to bring these terrorists to justice"- Leon E. Panetta

no prob.

(#172940)

apologies.

Member of the Forvm Five

Gentlemen,

(#172933)

is there any way we can get back to discussing the news of the day and curtail this dispute over Who Sucks More before it really leaps off the rails?

And now for some real news:

(#172968)

The Mirror reports that Michael Jackson will be buried without his brain.

Your wish, my command etc.

Politicians spend our money like a pimp with only a week to live.  CJ Boxx

by all means!

(#172935)

let's all get back to mining google for more pictures of crazy eyed people!

Member of the Forvm Five

OMG

(#172960)

you LOVE her!

totally!

(#172964)

you really got me pegged.... ;)

Member of the Forvm Five

No, It Really Doesn't Seem That Way

(#172660)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Of course, it could just be that the "J-E-W-S" are out to get poor, wronged Cyndy again. Or she's just bugf**k nuts, like she has been all along.

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.--from Ulysses, by Alfred, Lord Tennyson

If it's crazy you want

(#172666)

Cynthia was not the only person the Jews detained. Follow the links Bird Dog provided.

I'm still not convinced that these activists were anything but praiseworthy. What have you got against courageous acts of kindness?

If it's crazy you want, look at the Israelis claiming that a boat delivering crayons to Gaza was a threat to their security.

Nothing resembles virtue more than a great crime. Saint-Just

Micky. You know nothing.

(#172674)
Zelig's picture

The terrorists could melt them down and make a bomb.

Edit: It would be a cool looking bomb. All swirly and colorful and stuff.

Me: We! -- Ali

about iraq

(#172602)

at one point in time, you had a large repository of graphs and quantitative analysis with trend lines and milestones. The purpose of these was to demonstrate tah the surge was a valid strategy.

now, some disagreed that the surge was the cause of downwards trends in violence. they may have been wrong or you may have been wrong, but it was at least agreed that that violence had decreased.

now your graphs and charts seem to have abandoned you - or you, them.

why?

is there an uptick in violence? or not? i'm not sure, but until we establish that i don't see why you should disparage folks who are simply asking you to show your work when you claim a cause and effect relationship. showing causes is understandable difficult and open to interpretation -- but at least show the effect.

lets see some graphs of increased violence. then we can can discuss their causes.

Member of the Forvm Five

Because I didn't create them myself

(#172625)

I cut-and-pasted from a blogger who did. Going by the VOA link, June was the most violent month in the last eight in terms of civilian casualties. But if you want data, it comes from the same source as the graphs I used. The ICCC reported 316 Iraqi civilian deaths in June, the highest since July 2008 (cite). Al Qaeda has taken hits since the surge strategy began, but they're not gone, and with more available opportunities now than before, I wouldn't be see surprised to see a higher rate of murdered civilians.

Another point. Even though Afghanistan is supposed to be a hot spot and the situation in Iraq has improved, year-to-date military and civilian casualties are higher in Iraq than Afghanistan (per ICCC and this site). This tells me that we were in a fragile situation in Iraq before the withdrawals and I don't see how it could become less fragile when there is a significantly smaller security footprint. Afghanistan in 2008-2009 is worse than in prior years.


"I think BDog would make this place interesting." --catchy

charts!

(#172656)

using your icc data, and thios link: http://www.jonwinstanley.com/charts/

since 01/06:

last 12 months:

now then. looking at the second chart. i see casualties holding steady over the last year, reduced over the last six months, with an uptick last month. is that about right?

and apologies but these chart generators give a 0-100 range on the y axis, so we are just talking visual trends here, the data has been normalized on a 0-100 scale. also the axes aren't labeled with the months, sorry.

Member of the Forvm Five

Now That we Have Charts

(#172697)

It seems clear that the issue in Iraq is a policing problem. Finding a cell of bombers takes intel work rather than soldiering. The question is now whether Iraqi Police detectives and Iraqi Army S-2's are up to the task.

Someone send them a Sears catalogue.

(#172735)

I'm sure they'll figure it out.

Odd that the generator doesn't scale the charts

(#172663)

You can scale the axes by passing the maximum data point in the chxr parameter:

http://code.google.com/apis/chart/labels.html#axis_range

So, for example, if the max casualties in a month were 345:

I propose we all follow BD's example

(#172582)

and post the most freakish photo of any public figure when mentioning them in this forum. Or at least in BD diaries, if you don't want the entire website looking like Fark.

It's an interesting diary with a lot of info., BD

(#172555)

BUT SARAH PALIN RESIGNED TODAY SO FORGET ABOUT IT!!!!

Sarah!

(#172584)

Username!

(#172594)

I would suggest not inserting gratuitous off-topic images (and especially ones that have been photo-shopped). To me, it violates the spirit of the posting rules, the one about destroying meaningful conversation for its own sake. And in my spirit, I would agree to remove the above image if you'll agree to remove yours, with the help of one of the keymasters.


"I think BDog would make this place interesting." --catchy

Sounds like a deal

(#172601)

I agree completely -- freaky images like those we posted of Palin and McKinney are a blight, should be removed, and shouldn't be posted in the future.

By the way, if you're going to call me a horse's ass, just spell it out next time.

Sorry, no deal

(#172631)

Because you changed the terms. As for what I call you, whether I spell it out or not will be my decision. Preferably, I'd rather you not behave as the image depicts, but if you do, I might just call it as I see it.

Tell me this. Why does the picture of McKinney bother you so much? She's a loony tune who has problems with Jews. As for the image, she was standing in front of microphones and lots of cameras. She chose her hairstyle and facial expression, and it's not like she hasn't worn that look before.


"I think BDog would make this place interesting." --catchy

Er, ok

(#172634)

I guess I'll continue to be an asshole about it. The picture of McKinney bothers me because I figured you were above M Scott's childish namecalling and vilification. What's next, are you going to call Michael Moore fat?

It's not especially difficult to get a photo of a public figure making some freakish facial expression. I guess you think it's funny. I'll be a jerk and join in.

Rubbish

(#172676)

Making fun of doltish politicians and other public figures is an established customary practice here, and I reserve my right mock and ridicule them in any way I see fit. You and the supermajority of liberals who participate here also have that exact same right, far as I'm concerned, and I've seen it exercised.

I don't care if you post images, so long as you don't threadjack, which is what you did above, and in my opinion you violated the posting rules under the category of destroying meaningful conversation for its own sake. If you feel so compelled, then I suggest you click on "new diary" or find an open thread to express yourself. Whether you want to be an "*sshole" or "jerk" about it is, of course, your choice. But if you do, I may just choose to point out your "*sshole" or "jerk" behavior.


"I think BDog would make this place interesting." --catchy

Oh, And Posting Rules -nt-

(#172637)
M Scott Eiland's picture

.

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.--from Ulysses, by Alfred, Lord Tennyson

And In Other News. . .

(#172635)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .the sun will rise tomorrow, and air contains oxygen.

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.--from Ulysses, by Alfred, Lord Tennyson

Sounds good!

(#172636)

That Seems Like an Odd Complaint Considering Cynthia McKinney's

(#172600)


...picture of her looking Bat Poo-Poo insane is so prominently displayed in your Diary.

Which is not to say that both lasses are not freaking insane...but still...

Let us Move On....lol...dot org.

Best Wishes, Traveller

I believe it works if....

(#172911)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

....you focus on Photoshopping as a way to tell what is, in essence, a visual lie. Whereas the CM shot is crazy-looking, but real enough.

-“It is unwise for the government to tell people how they can spend their money” - Barney Frank, Chairman House Financial Services Committee, on on-line gambling, 2009

Huh

(#172599)
M Scott Eiland's picture

So *that's* where Blago got the idea for his hairstyle!

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.--from Ulysses, by Alfred, Lord Tennyson

Well done.

(#172615)
Zelig's picture

••

Me: We! -- Ali

I believe

(#172585)

a long-time member of this very site predicted that she'll be back to kick our asses.

Cynthia McKinney will be back to kick our a$$es?

(#172969)

Please, no. Life is too short.

Politicians spend our money like a pimp with only a week to live.  CJ Boxx

citation please!

(#172588)

I'm too lazy to look it up,

(#172590)

so if that commenter doesn't want to 'fess up, let's just assume it's my bad memory, 'k?

Heh, guess he doesn't want to 'fess up.

(#172690)

Here's a hint: He uses "Scott" as part of his name here.

Please. Nothing to 'fess up to.

(#172699)
Zelig's picture

Until her websites and PACs and what not have been shuttered for months, and until her name resonates with no more frequency than "Dan Rostenkowski", Sarah Palin •••••is••••••not•••••DEAD.

Me: We! -- Ali

Havwen't you been keeping up with the news?

(#172972)

apparently some stuff is going on up there.

and hey, I liked Dan Rostenkowski. Like Tip O'Neill and what's his name, that "Congressman Pothole" guy from New Jersey, he made no bones at all about what he was. Plus, he got his hair cut at the same barbershop and bought his pints at the samegrocery as John Murtha does now.

Politicians spend our money like a pimp with only a week to live.  CJ Boxx

I wish that "deathmatch" claymation cartoon...

(#172556)
Zelig's picture

...was still on TV.

McKinney v Palin

Pay per view. I'd get cable for that.

Me: We! -- Ali