McCain needn't do this
I was checking factcheck.org this morning, and it looks to me like the McCain campaign is stretching the facts way too much. It needn't be this way. We can take Obama to task without distorting anything. For example:
* He was flat wrong on the surge strategy in Iraq, a top two issue.
* His plan for turning things around in Afghanistan is practically non-existent.
* He is in favor of market-distorting ethanol subsidies.
* He has put forward no new ideas for taking the bite out of gasoline prices. He voted for keeping the Brazilian ethanol tariff in place, he has opposed the expansion of offshore drilling (until recently), and he is proposing a windfall profits tax on oil companies, a la Jimmy Carter.
* For nuclear energy, his opposition to Yucca Mountain as a repository means that he would rather kick the can down the road instead of build new plants, thus restricting the expansion of our energy base.
* He will significantly grow the size of government.
* He wants to raise taxes, including taxes on Social Security.
* He wants to restrict free trade, opposing both NAFTA and a free trade agreement with Colombia.
* He favors the Employee Free Choice Act, which would restrict employee free choice because the bill removes secret ballot provisions.
* Obama is woefully inexperienced for the job of Leader of the Free World, as Baseball Crank well points out.
And the list goes on and on. Because of all this good and true material out there, I don't see why the McCain campaign thinks it's necessary to distort the facts or take things out of context. I have no problem with negative ads, so long as they're true and accurate, but Factcheck.org has found plenty of those ads and statements wanting. This is a concern because, if the negative ads aren't credible, then undecided voters will tend to tune them out. Going down the list, on Obama and electricity:
McCain's new ad claims that Obama "says he'll raise taxes on electricity." That's false. Obama says no such thing.McCain relies on a single quote from Obama who once – and only once so far as we can find – suggested taxing "dirty energy," including coal and natural gas. That was in response to a reporter's suggestion that a tax on wind power could fund education. Obama isn't proposing any new tax on electricity or "dirty energy" as part of his platform, and he never has.
It's true that a coal/gas tax would raise electric rates, but so would a cap-and-trade program to restrict carbon emissions. Cap-and-trade is an idea that both McCain and Obama support, in different forms. Neither candidate characterizes cap-and-trade as a "tax."
On Obama and oil exploration and offshore drilling:
McCain's new ad accuses Obama of keeping gas prices high, all by himself. That's absurd, and McCain knows it – he has said repeatedly that our current problems were "30 years in the making."The ad also tells us that gas prices are high because "some in Washington are still saying no to drilling in America." Not true. The federal government's estimate is that if the moratorium on offshore drilling were lifted today, it would be 2030 before we'd see a noticeable effect on supply and prices.
For the same reason, it's simply not true that drilling more now will "rescue our family budgets."
The one exception I have with the above is that, if expanded oil exploration and drilling were approved today, then it would favorably affect oil futures prices almost immediately. On Obama and funding the troops:
The McCain campaign is running a TV ad attacking Obama with statements that are literally true but paint an incomplete picture.It says he "voted against funding our troops." He did – exactly once. Obama cast at least 10 votes for war-funding bills before voting against one last year, after Bush vetoed a version that contained a date for withdrawal from Iraq.
It says he "hasn't been to Iraq for years." He was headed there at the time the ad was released, however, and had been there in 2006.
It says he "never held a single hearing on Afghanistan." It was the full Senate Foreign Relations Committee, not Obama's subcommittee, that had the hearings on this global hot spot, and Obama attended one of those. Over the same time period, McCain himself attended none of the Afghanistan hearings held by the Armed Services Committee on which he serves.
McCain would have been better off highlighting Obama's scant foreign policy experience and complete lack of military experience, as well as taking Obama to task for his lack of any sort of coherent strategy for Iraq and Afghanistan. On Obama and small business:
McCain has repeatedly claimed that Obama would raise tax rates for 23 million small-business owners. It's a false and preposterously inflated figure.We find that the overwhelming majority of those small-business owners would see no increase, because they earn too little to be affected. Obama's tax proposal would raise rates only on couples making more than $250,000 or singles earning more than $200,000.
McCain argues that Obama's proposed increase is a job-killer. He has a point. It's true that increasing taxes on those at the top would leave them less money for other purposes, including investment and hiring in the case of business owners. But the number of business owners who would see their rates go up would be only a small fraction of what McCain says. Many would see their taxes go down.
On Obama and taxes:
The McCain campaign claims that Obama voted to raise income taxes on individuals who earn as little as $32,000 per year. That's wrong.* The resolution Obama voted for would not have increased taxes on any single taxpayer making less than $41,500 per year in total income, or any couple making less than $83,000. The $32,000 figure is approximately the taxable income of a single person making $41,500 per year, after all deductions and exclusions.
* Obama's vote (for a non-binding budget bill) does not change the fact that his own tax plan would provide a tax cut of $502 for a non-married taxpayer earning $35,000.
This is a small distortion, but why not just say $41,500 instead of $32,000? The higher number is still pretty darn low. On Obama and his record of raising taxes:
The McCain campaign and the Republican National Committee both claim that Obama has voted 94 times "for higher taxes." We find that their count is padded.After looking at every one of the 94 votes that the RNC includes in its tally, we find:
* Twenty-three were for measures that would have produced no tax increase at all; they were against proposed tax cuts.
* Seven of the votes were in favor of measures that would have lowered taxes for many, while raising them on a relative few, either corporations or affluent individuals.
* Eleven votes the GOP is counting would have increased taxes on those making more than $1 million a year – in order to fund programs such as Head Start and school nutrition programs, or veterans’ health care.
* The GOP sometimes counted two, three and even four votes on the same measure. We found their tally included a total of 17 votes on seven measures, effectively padding their total by 10.
* The majority of the 94 votes – 53 of them, including some mentioned above – were on budget measures, not tax bills, and would not have resulted in any tax change. Four other votes were non-binding motions related to conference report negotiations.
It's true that most of the votes the GOP counts would either have increased taxes for some, or set budget targets calling for such increases. But by repeating their inflated 94-vote figure, the McCain campaign and the GOP falsely imply that Obama has pushed indiscriminately to raise taxes for nearly everybody. A closer look reveals that he's voted consistently to restore higher tax rates on upper-income taxpayers but not on middle- or low-income workers. That's consistent with what he's said he'd do as president, which is to raise taxes only on those making more than $250,000 a year.
And that's just for the month of July. There are a couple of critiques of McCain that are pretty lame. For example, in the McCain ad which stated that "Fidel Castro thinks he [Obama] is 'the most advanced candidate,'" the factcheck.org folks took umbrage because Castro criticized Obama in the same article. However, it's pretty clear that Castro prefers Obama. Here's what Castro said in the opening paragraph:
I feel no resentment towards him, for he is not responsible for the crimes perpetrated against Cuba and humanity. Were I to defend him, I would do his adversaries an enormous favor.
Castro is smart enough to know that praising Obama could very well backfire. Concerning Obama canceling his visit with troops in Germany, I thought their critique of McCain's ad was lame. All Obama had to do was tell his campaign people to stay at the hotel while he visited troops at the base.
--
"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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(I posted this on an older, quite possibly stale thread, but I convinced myself it's worth posting again)
Another rabid right-winger disagrees with the assertion by some that the "Celeb" ad was intended to stoke racist sentiments. In fact, this Obama-hating McCain shill is actually mocking those who make that assertion.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/index.jhtml?episodeId=178307
It is soooo obvious that the "Celeb" ad was intended to stoke racist sentiments, that this guy is either utterly ignorant, and hopelessly naive, a complete idiot or an extreme, shameless, disingenuous McCain partisan, right?
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)The Hiltons have been offended, and by proxy all their many friends, all of whom are significant movers and shakers. Why McCain chose to alienate this constituency baffles me. Perhaps you have some insight into this matter. I do not.
McCain aches for the paparazzi to aim their cameras in his direction. He has inadvertently shown his ghastly vanity for what it is: deepest envy that a younger, less experienced man can garner the affection of the ever-fickle press. McCain is, to put it mildly, out of fashion. Look at those ridiculous Ferragamo shoes. They were out of date in the early 1980s. They look like an interpretation of the Pilgrim's buckled shoes. An altogether pathetic attempt at relevance. I don't care what McCain has on his feet.
If you like those shoes, go for it, John. They're nice shoes, I wouldn't buy them, but that's your choice.
Problem is, now you've invoked cultural relevance into the debate. You didn't have to do that. You're supposed to be a classic. Want to be a classic? Washington has its own equivalent of Savile Row, but they don't stock Ferragamo loafers. Surely you have a fashion advisor, some Jeeves who can advise you against malaprops like those Ferragamo loafers. Nobody would have cared until you tried to invoke this spirit. There actually is such a demon, Vanitas, he is always portrayed in Medieval and Renaissance art as a skeleton holding a mirror before a naked woman, admiring herself. Hieronymus Bosch paints just such an image.
Best to stick to your Classic image. Don't go around invoking such spirits: they will answer your call, John. You will find them holding the mirror up to your shoes.
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| parent )hmm, a lot of words to try to shift attenion away from the question of whether or not it was fair for Obama to accuse McCain of stoking racist sentiments with that ad. Is it that you think that everyone has such severe A.D.D. that by the time they get finished reading all that they'll forget what the question was -- and what the very vocal contention of several folks (I assume including you, but I haven't bothered to check) was?
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| parent )opined in this manner, I quote him nearly verbatim: All the cards are race cards. This is baloney, Barack Obama isn't the descendant of slaves or slave owners, and it wouldn't matter if he was. America does sort itself out by color and it happens on my side of the color line, too. Being black isn't a club you can join or resign from, and we resent blacks who try to 'pass'. A lot of black people supported Hillary and they're still suspicious of Obama. They think he's trying to 'pass' as black. He never had to live in poverty or with segregation. But that doesn't matter either. Just don't pretend McCain isn't trying to stir up fears of Obama, a lot of black people see this crap he's pulling and they know it for veiled racism. But that doesn't matter, either, because America's largely gotten past that. For better or worse we are a fundamentally racist nation and probably always will be, as long as we sort ourselves out in terms of black and white.
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| parent )Was it a positive ad, showing McCain as the exemplar of Solid Conservative Excellence?
Of course it wasn't. It was a nasty smear, devoid of any mockery. It portrayed a witless girl whose life has been reduced to a recursive parody of reality. Don't you stand up on your hind legs to deny it. Its entire intention, whole and complete, was to stir up the ancient mud of racism. That's just my interpretation, and don't you act all offended when I say so. Such images are open to interpretation, as the aforementioned Renaissance and Medieval artists understood well enough. Your problem is, you haven't had enough of that Liberal Arts Art History ejumacation wherein such things are taught.
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| parent )Oh, I had a decent amount of liberal arts education. I enjoyed philosophy, particularly questions like this:
If you move the goalposts a great distance, but pretend you are not doing so, does it make any sound?
[edit: Criticize the McCain ad all you want. I hated it, by the way, and one reason was that it was silly, petty, undignified, etc. And you're free to think it's possible that there is some intention to stoke racist sentiments. But before you -- and particularly before Obama -- publicly charges someone with trying to stoke racist sentiments, fairness and decency demand a reasonable basis for that charge.]
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| parent )I'd be curious to hear the quote where Obama accuses McCain of 'stoking racist sentiments with that ad'.
Thanks.
--To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard
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| parent )He's not gonna waste any more time on you now. Me, I'd be devastated to be cut off like that, and in public too.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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| parent )Consider yourself devastated.
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| parent )Please?
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| parent )Sure, you got it. It's a win-win. All who are not willing or able to engage in good-faith, responsive, logical discussion/debate can feel free to identify yourselves and save me time, which I can use for more interesting and productive (in terms of learning) conversations with others (or use for any other purpose, which would be a better use of time).
[edit: Oh, and if that turns out to be 90% of folks on Forvm, that's ok too, and better to know sooner rather than later]
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| parent )If you are implying that I need to provide a quote of Obama explicitly stating exactly that, you've got to be kidding.
Otherwise, been there, done that, http://theforvm.org/diary/harley/stay-classy-senator-mccain-part-iii-a-c..., and won't waste more time with someone who has consistently shown zero interest in good-faith discussion/debate.
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| parent )To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard
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| parent )That would rather be like asking Einstein to show you his math. Some facts are just too self-evident for "quotes" and other such nonsense.
--Me: We! -- Ali
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| parent )What was I thinking? It's a GOP specialty every election season. Debate My False Premise!!
Must I?
--To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard
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| parent )as compared to 50,000 bikers with respect to cultural relevance.
--"Making sure your tires are properly inflated, simple thing, but we could save all the oil that they're talking about getting off drilling, if everybody was just inflating their tires and getting regular tune-ups. You could actually save just as much." Ob
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| parent )you go to where the crowds are at.
Your sig. is the most accurate thing I've ever seen written under your byline the whole time I have been frequenting this joint and its predecessor.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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| parent )I'll tell you about Sturgis. My friends go to Sturgis, flying MIA flags, and every one of them hates John McCain for his position on Vietnam era MIAs. Don't kid yourself, I know these people, and they maintain a visceral hatred for John McCain you can't possibly imagine.
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| parent )could care a less about politics, as is the case for most of the people I know who don't go to Sturgis.
--"That Sam-I-am! That Sam-I-am! I do not like that Sam-I-am!"- Dr. Seuss
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| parent )Hugging the Bug. Or giving up on the MIAs. These mean old critters think this War on Terror has gone sideways. They want to go to Afghanistan to kill terrorists. These are some seriously angry people, and they're completely disgusted with this war in Iraq and the Bush administration and its handling of veterans issues. Lots of them think George W Bush is AWOL scum and a pantywaist who isn't serious about fighting the enemies of this country.
Sturgis is now a cultural icon, like NASCAR. Outlaw bikers aren't as welcome there anymore. It's been taken over by weekend warriors who pull their bikes out of the trailer they've towed behind their Chevy Suburban and ride their big Electroglides into town and get to play Billy Badass for a few days. But they don't wear colors, and they don't wear the Black Flag. And they don't sit in the corner and drink beer at the VFW and make dark references to who's selling out America to the highest bidder and not providing help for our wounded vets.
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| parent )What did they think of Kerry? What do they think of Obama? What do they think of Democrats in general?
--"That Sam-I-am! That Sam-I-am! I do not like that Sam-I-am!"- Dr. Seuss
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| parent )And others thought he was a Glory Hound. All the Black Flaggers believe the Vietnam War was wrong on several levels, though they differ in their reasoning. Kerry and VVAW gets high marks for pulling down the rotten facade of happy talk about the war in SE Asia. The war was a deeply ugly thing and there were atrocities on both sides, that's war, and those who think Kerry was a Glory Hound are opposed by those who were only in RSVN for a few weeks when they were wounded.
As for Democrats and their positions, they all seem to like Jack Murtha and they all think this war in Iraq is based on a pack of lies. Doesn't mean they're Democrats, though. When Murtha was slimed by that silly woman from Ohio, whatzername Jean Schmidt, that remark about "cowards cut and run", they all hooted and said one said "there's one b*tch who never didimaued out of an ambush!" Didimau means run-like-hell in Vietnamese. The smart move when you're being ambushed is to get out of the kill zone and call in artillery or an air strike on the kill zone itself.
The Democrats come in for some scorn, the Black Flaggers hate Pelosi and Reid, and hold them responsible for much of what's gone wrong in the VA system. The Black Flaggers have an outreach to returning vets from Iraq and Afghanistan. A lot of these new guys are starting to hang out with the Black Flaggers, and to a man, the Iraq vets think this war is wrong and the Afghanistan vets say that war needs to be fought.
Anecdotal to be sure, but that's what I've seen.
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| parent )from Vietnam era guys who fly POW flags is they neither like Kerry or McCain, or Republican or Democrats in general. Neither do they like the VA, or much else from the federal government. In fact they are easily persuaded by the scantest bits of evidence that the government actively conspires against citizens. They are a rather disaffected group of folks, but they usually tell excellent stories.
--"That Sam-I-am! That Sam-I-am! I do not like that Sam-I-am!"- Dr. Seuss
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| parent )and they are in a grand tradition of another deeply political organization, the Grand Army of the Republic. GAR posts were the first integrated organizations in the USA: they loudly shouted down anyone who dared to say blacks weren't good enough to join their units. They were good enough to die for the Union, they're good enough for the GAR.
In East of Eden, Steinbeck has Cyrus Trask, leader of the GAR bragging: "I wonder if you know how much influence I really have. I can throw the Grand Army at any candidate like a sock. Even the President likes to know what I think about public matters. I can get senators defeated and I can pick appointments like apples. I can make men and I can destroy men. Do you know that?"
Take a look under that link, it's quite an education. Vets are deeply political animals. They know the government doesn't give a damn about them. And as for war stories, here's a rule of thumb: the more they say, the less they saw.
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| parent )the ones I know fit the typical profile of the militia movement in the 1990s. And not all war stories are about actual combat, some of the best are about the stupidity that happens in the rear.
--"That Sam-I-am! That Sam-I-am! I do not like that Sam-I-am!"- Dr. Seuss
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| parent )I'll take your word for it. In which case, yeah, you're preaching to the choir, no argument from me. Where did all those paranoids go to, anyway? They sure didn't join the military, though a few did. Like that Tim McVeigh.
A great many veterans don't readjust to civilian life very well. They need place like the VFW, where they're in the company of other such men and women. There are aspects of readjustment a civilian will never understand, that's where other veterans can help. It's odd, I remember being called by my first name for the first time in several years coming as something of a shock. The VFW hasn't lost relevance. These troops bring their war home with them, getting it off their shoulders is the first and most important task, and some never manage to do it.
Which is where the Tim McVeighs of the world start out. What would have happened if Tim McVeigh had been issued a pair of boots which didn't give him blisters when he entered Ranger training? He'd probably be in the military to this day, and the military is full of skinheads and gangsters this very minute. Let's not make heroes of everyone who went to war: some of these guys have no identity without that uniform and rank insignia. They'll be leaving the military by the thousands. Some will join up with Blackwater and their ilk. Some will become homeless: the military is also a haven for people who need to be told everything, lots of lazy passive people thrive in the military. It's a big problem for our society, and it's going to get a lot bigger.
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| parent )Vietnam era vets, too old to rejoin by the time I knew them. They were my friends' dads, or guys I worked with in construction or at a warehouse. They seemed normal enough at first blush with families, blue collar jobs, and blue collar concerns. I grew up in a rural area and these guys liked space between them and their neighbors, and guns, lots and lots of guns. They weren't preachy about their politics, in fact they were mum about their beliefs to most people. Usually they would only open up to me about it once they knew I served, service seemed to accord a certain amount of respect for them. And although I'm closer to the OEF/OIF guys in age I actually know far fewer of them. Most of the ones I do know have typical 20-something concerns (college and girls). But unlike you I'm not a member of the VFW. They send me stuff once a year and I seriously consider it, but I'm not much of one for organizations, even ones I like.
--"That Sam-I-am! That Sam-I-am! I do not like that Sam-I-am!"- Dr. Seuss
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| parent )and yet they still cheered.
--"Making sure your tires are properly inflated, simple thing, but we could save all the oil that they're talking about getting off drilling, if everybody was just inflating their tires and getting regular tune-ups. You could actually save just as much." Ob
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| parent )To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard
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| parent )I'd have to say this merits examination, too.
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| parent )can you link to it?
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| parent )Here you go.
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| parent )2 borderline cases.
Re the 'bully' comment, Harley could be interpreted as merely referencing the 'style' of mcCain's political confrontation vs. insulting McCain.
Harley also refers to Obama twisting knives in w. 'a smile'.
Both descriptions might just be a colorful way of denoting different politically necessary tactics.
As for McCain whoring out his wife -- it's a little trickier to find a pretext not to have this bet end. But I'm reluctant to have borderline cases end it this early on (tho if this is going to be death by a 1000 cuts sobeit).
For the time being I'm going to dismiss this as a straight-up joke, not a genuine insult. Sturgis is famous for nudity + biker orgies and McCain has an attractive wife.
I will grow tired of inventing excuses however in the near future and so far Scott I would be shocked if you lose this thing.
Your humble servant,
catchy
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| parent )Opening ceremonies of the Olympics will be early Friday morning our time, and by the terms of the bet we will be looking at a draw if no one has succumbed to temptation.
Nevertheless, your decision is final and binding. I will soldier on.
[Scott spots a post on Patterico about Olbermann and whimpers slightly as he glances at the clock: sixty hours of hell left!]
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| parent )You have been a gentleman and a scholar throughout. I would easily argue that telling the truth -- McCain is a bully -- is not an insult. However, I have a more difficult time with 'whoring out his wife.' It's what he was doing, IMO, but I understand if this constitutes a violation on my part.
It's been a pleasure. And not hell at all.
--To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard
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| parent )In anticipation of Tomsyl concurring with Catchy, I thank you for your gracious remarks, and propose an alternative to the agreed "prize" of a "you the man" diary written by you to me. As you know, I intend to write a series of diaries covering the upcoming Olympic Games. If you were to assent to participate as you see fit with detailed comments to those diaries, passing on your reactions to the events of the Games as they happen, I would consider your obligation from the bet to be discharged in full.
Let me know after we hear from Tomsyl.
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| parent )You guys only had to hold on til the opening of the Olympics + not through the election?
If that was the timeframe + Harley slipped and called McCain a 'bully' + said he whored out his wife then IMO he loses.
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| parent )I was going to say (and I don't know if others are supposed to stay out of this or not), I think "bully" in inherently very negative. Seems the definitions bear that out.
American Heritage Dictionary
bul·ly
–noun
1. A person who is habitually cruel or overbearing, especially to smaller or weaker people.
Dictionary.com Unabridged
bul·ly
n.
1. a blustering, quarrelsome, overbearing person who habitually badgers and intimidates smaller or weaker people.
And worst of all:
American Heritage Dictionary
bul·ly
n.
Canned or pickled beef.
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| parent )Opinions are, of course, the coin of the realm in the Forvm as long as they are delivered in accordance with the rules.
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| parent )Well, one of the guys in this contest is a great big poopy-head, but I won't say which one because I don't want to violate the rules.
On a totally different point, you seem like an ok guy.
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| parent ). . .then it's up to Tomsyl now.
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| parent )it's in the Bible.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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| parent ). . .but we appointed arbitrators for a reason. Your opinion is noted.
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| parent )I've been round this part of the block, floated along by enough VFW beer to float McCain's carrier.
Let's get real here. A dedicated corps of Vietnam era vets fly the Black Flag. Every one of them hates John McCain. On that you can bet your farm, your life savings and your daughter's virginity. You have no earthly idea the depth and sincerity of their hatred of John McCain, the Man who Hugged the Bug, his erstwhile torturer.
Let's just make this statement as a matter of fact. You turn up in my VFW and you'll get every tooth knocked out of your head for daring to defend John McCain.
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| parent )when I talked about the IRA in an irish bar
--"Making sure your tires are properly inflated, simple thing, but we could save all the oil that they're talking about getting off drilling, if everybody was just inflating their tires and getting regular tune-ups. You could actually save just as much." Ob
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| parent )n/t
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| parent )in a typical Irish bar in the US.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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| parent )No class.
Oh, and if you can't attract much of a crowd then you go where the crowds are, understandable.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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)Obama: "I mean it's like these guys take pride in ignorance! It's like they like being ignorant."
--Fence post turtles -- They don't get up there by themselves, some moron had to put 'em there.
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| parent )they just assume the electorate is. An attitude they successfully turned into an election winning strategy over the years. Only time will tell if such antics will finally catch up with them this go around.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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| parent )Though you start off blasting Obama in a diary on McCain, the overall effect is still one of fairness, in a partisan way. Nothing wrong with that.
One though, as you might expect:
The one exception I have with the above is that, if expanded oil exploration and drilling were approved today, then it would favorably affect oil futures prices almost immediately.
Well, no. I'm not aware of any oil futures being sold for delivery in 2030. The longest available date is 2013 and it has practically no volume. In fact, if you look at this chart for today, you will see that 100% of trading volume was concentrated in the four shortest delivery terms (Sept., Oct., Nov., and Dec. 2008), and 94% of volume is for September 2008 futures alone, with the other three months taking the remaining 6%.
Oil futures will not change on that news. They might begin to change upon actual successful exploratory drilling, but that's years away by any measure. Off-shore oil infrastructure is in high demand and generally not available on short notice.
It goes without saying that I don't agree with many of your criticisms of Obama. I definitely do not think military experience is needed, or indeed necessarily a net asset, for a president. There are advantages to it, but disadvantages also. Most of our current international problems are political and economic, even intelligence, before they are military.
All Obama had to do was tell his campaign people to stay at the hotel while he visited troops at the base.
I thought the same thing. Actually, I thought he had to tell the press to keep away too. No press, no staff. Just his body man and security detail. I don't know, but I have the feeling the Obama people might have had some information that the McCain people were going to pounce on the event. Still, done right it would have been worth it. I know at least some of the troops were disappointed he didn't show.
--Of course not!
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)It would be nice if he was attacked on the merits, rather than dishonestly. But why is McCain necessarily the better foreign policy president? Because he was right about a single military action? (The surge.) He was dead wrong about Afghanistan. Does that balance out the first?
He has led a mostly undistinguished career in the Senate, posing as a Maverick -- which is different from being one -- while accomplishing very little.
Oh, wait. He's older. Is that what makes him the better prez?
--To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard
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)...he would meet with Ahmadinejad, Chavez, Castro, etc., without preconditions, he clearly demonstrated that he would be an inferior foreign policy president. It was a patently ridiculous thing to say, and he magnified that misjudgment by not retracting or disowning it.
I have no idea what you mean by McCain being "dead wrong" about Afghanistan. Dead wrong about what? Or that McCain was right about a single action, implying that he was wrong about all other military actions. Sounds like spin.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent )He was right. The act of meeting the leader of a regime is not a concession in itself.
It's somewhat different with organizations of questionable legitimacy, since in that case the meeting itself does concede something of value. But nobody thinks that Ahmadinejad isn't the president of Iran, or that Iran isn't a real country.
A one on one can be of value to them, but it can be of value to us as well. Preconditions are usually (not always) dishonestly meant to block dialog of any kind. Obama wants to know who he's dealing with. It's a leadership thing.
--Of course not!
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| parent )Correctly interpreted as meaning absent the unrealistic demands which the Bush Administration insisted on as pre-conditions before entering into talks with N Korea and Iran. A policy only recently dropped in favor of limited engagement that has achieved results at least in N Korea.
Also widely misrepresented by the press at the urging of Republican spin masters.
McCain: Afghanistan’s Troubles Are Unrelated To ‘Our Diversion To Iraq’
Obama, McCain split over Afghan strategy
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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| parent )North Korea was a hard negotiation, and Kim had to agree to six-party talks in order to go forward, and it happened, so no "without preconditions" talks there. There have been no "without preconditions" talks with Iran. The recent meetings were at junior ambassador level involving specific issues of security. In neither of those talks were they entered into by the president without preconditions, as Obama said he would do, which is about as stupid and naive an idea as I've heard from a legitimate presidential contender.
Oh, and don't insult me with that Soros-funded ThinkProgress crap. More often than not, they range from half-lies to full-scale lies. Re McCain's appearance on The View, there is no full transcript (there never are full transcripts with those f*ckwads) and the video is inoperative. Show me the full interview and then we'll talk. I have no idea what you're trying to prove with the Boston Globe link.
The increase in violence in Afghanistan is directly related to the pantywaist agreements that Musharraf & Co. executed with the various tribal leaders in the various frontier provinces. Musharraf can't control his own territory with his own army, so he implemented face-saving measures that ended up worsening the situation on both sides of the border. More American troops would have had no effect on Musharraf and his efforts to negotiate those milquetoast truces.
The al Qaeda leadership isn't in Afghanistan, they're in Pakistan, so there's not a lot that more troops can do in that regard. We need more troops in Afghanistan today than in years past because al Qaeda and other militant Islamist groups have grown stronger and have more secure presences in Pakistan, allowing them to mount incursions into Afghan territory. The additional challenge is that NATO doesn't have unity of command, so different countries are operating under different missions and different modes of operation, and several countries (such as Germany) refuse to go to areas where the real fighting is.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent )with us. Bush said he wouldn't negotiate with them, remember how he was waving his arms around and saying Clinton was playing the fool? Doesn't anyone here remember the Axis of Evil schtick? Well, he ended up negotiating with them anyway. No much for principles.
You may not like Soros and CAP, I don't like Heritage Foundation or AEI. Facts don't take sides. I read papers from all of them. It's useful to know what the other side is thinking, how they interpret the facts. CAP isn't above making mistakes, so what, the boys over at Heritage are looking pretty stupid right now, all that la-la simplistic happy talk about the Iraq War and the rest of GWB's lunatic foreign policy, all largely written by Heritage. How would you like to say "Our organization had the privilege of guiding the foreign policy of Bush43" -- hmmm? If you want to call Soros a liar, a cite would be nice, but I'll stipulate to his partisan agenda... then what shall we make of the manifest lies uttered by the likes of Richard Mellon Scaife?
Don't play tu-quoque, Conservatives play fast and loose with their own version of events. They play rough, too, but right now, everyone at Heritage might as well see if they can get a paying gig at Wingnut University down in Jesusland somewhere. Nobody is ever going to take Heritage seriously again until the current crop of dumbasses is safely screwed into their coffins.
Pantywaist agreements with the Taliban? Sounds to me like Mushy isn't quite the bulwark of strength Bush used to call him. I'll tell you what this Mushy/Taliban business amounts to: it's a recapitulation of the same baloney Heritage Foundation was saying back in the halcyon days of Reagan, when the Rooskies were running around in those same hills. The Pashtun people are hell-bent on autonomy. Trouble is, when they get any, they turn into drug lords and autocrats. The only safe solution is to run them down and kill about half of them, then make peace with the rest. The Taliban has 200,000 soldiers in the field now, flush with drugs money. That's a whole lot bigger than our Surge. Think that one through: Mushy has no choice.
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| parent )but the way ThinkProgress manipulates the facts is extremely partisan, and more often than not dishonest. I don't know how many times I've investigated their links and found out-of-context statements, or dowdified statements, or where they cut out sentences to distort what the person said. Your citing Heritage is a red herring, as if I use Heritage to Sparti's CAP. The only thing I use Heritage for is their Index of Economic Freedom.
I don't disagree with your solutions about the Pashtuns, bloody as those solutions are, but we can't put our soldiers on their soil without raising a major ruckus with their people.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent )on a bilateral basis and he didn't. the key was getting the prc involved with an executed document, er mission accomplished.
--"Making sure your tires are properly inflated, simple thing, but we could save all the oil that they're talking about getting off drilling, if everybody was just inflating their tires and getting regular tune-ups. You could actually save just as much." Ob
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| parent )He's done everything Kerry said he'd do. Let's not indulge in fantasy here, the PRC is as sick of DPRK as we are. DPRK stands in the way of full relations betweeen USA and PRC. Sorry to use so many acronyms, but let's get real here, China cares about its relationship with the USA waaaay more than than it cares about maintaining these failed Maoist republics. Both USA and PRC hate the positions they've been forced into, and Bush was right to insist on multilateral negotiations, as much to assuage PRC's pride as anything else.
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| parent )Kerry wanted bilateral talks. The problem with that is China holds the cards when it comes to North Korea. They could cut off trade tomorrow with North Korea and starve that nation out. If China isn't on board, then there's no real way to enforce agreements with Kim. That's why it was important to get China into the mix. The other nations are sideline players.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent )Dog whistle found in that Charlton Heston "Moses" video clip.
--Fence post turtles -- They don't get up there by themselves, some moron had to put 'em there.
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)The McCain camp knows the "legitimate" issues you raised won't get anyone to vote for him. As a result, he is doing what he has to in order to win in November, lying about Obama.
I don't condone their lies, but I understand why they are doing it.
--But she's a queen, and such are queens
that your laughter is sucked in their brains. -D. Bowie
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)I'd write a similarly critical Obama diary, but his eyes are just too dreamy.
That and I've been too busy to write anything substantial rather than just snipe, anyways.
Anyone see that "The One" ad? Are they serious? Does McCain want to lose so bad he's gonna start paying money to run Obama ads now?
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)Anyone see that "The One" ad? Are they serious? Does McCain want to lose so bad he's gonna start paying money to run Obama ads now?
I think that lots of folks are uncomfortable with cults of personality. It's a clever ad in that it takes the focus off of McCain (whose otherwise been running a pretty godawful campaign) and rubs on the raw spot that is discomfort with a self-anointed messiah. It's freakin' brilliant in that it takes Obama's greatest strength and uses that as a leverage point.
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| parent )McCain certainly needs to take the focus off of him and put it on Obama.
But, hell, the ad is a solid minute of Obama whipping up crowds. Half of the sections, I feel like the Obama campaign would love to get free coverage of those rallies in the media. And 1/3 or so of the arrogant things he's saying, he's clearly joking.
I mean, Bush's cockiness was never a weakness for him. I feel like the ad is a lame inside joke in the McCain camp that should've never been presented for public consumption.
Watch it with the sound off.. is it an ad for McCain or Obama?
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| parent )Because elevating the debate on the issues doesn't help him and negative campaigning that seeks to dumb down the debate with stupidity like the latest tire gauge gimmick is so much easier.
What is wrong with these people?
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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)obama changes his positions so quickly tough to tie him down
--"Making sure your tires are properly inflated, simple thing, but we could save all the oil that they're talking about getting off drilling, if everybody was just inflating their tires and getting regular tune-ups. You could actually save just as much." Ob
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| parent )which included some taking the bite out of gasoline prices pandering, as well as a run down on overall policy goals.
Today's Speech.
Website.
Meanwhile,
Conservation will be a key component of America's energy future, and proper tire inflation is a quick, simple adjustment Americans can make -- themselves -- to their automobiles to improve efficiency while also improving vehicle handling, safety, and tire wear.
An attack that backfires upon closer scrutiny is the primary maintenance item in the McCain Campaign's Operator's Manual. As even Bird Dog, apparently, agrees.
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)Obama's proposal to tap into the strategic petroleum reserve is just as lame as McCain's gas tax holiday.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent )That's why I wrote "pandering".
The rest of the plan includes more substance (and, indeed again, more pandering).
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| parent )Admitting distortions your candidate has made, while extolling the substantial strengths of his actual, non-distorted positions. It's classy. Unfortunately the McCain campaign seems to have decided that negative, distorting personal attacks are their only prayer of victory in November. I hope they take your advice and discover otherwise before they damage McCain's reputation as a stand up guy too much more.
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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)BD, I'll second what Jordan said: "Admitting distortions your candidate has made, while extolling the substantial strengths of his actual, non-distorted positions. It's classy."
I just wish everyone were willing and able to do the same with their guy (and I don't mean just criticizing Obama for not being liberal enough). It's pretty easy to praise someone for acknowleding the faults, misdeeds, etc., of his candidate. Heck, it's music to people's ears when someone supporting the other candidate admits such things.
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| parent )OT, but did you get the email about getting together with Harley on Thursday night?
--I blame it all on the Internet
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)Sounds good. Looking forward.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent )One problem for McCain is that many of the issues you raise at the top are narrow policy points and require some extensive explanation to make clear to the public -- and the public tunes out pretty fast, if the media would even bother to give them the full story.
There's also great risk in talking about free trade since so much of America has a knee-jerk and poorly informed reaction to it. Thanks Lou Dobbs!
--Steven Palmer Peterson
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)