More Obama untruths
In addition to the seven in my last post, The Economist has found has found three more untruths that came out of the mouth of Barack Obama:
Very little has been made of two instances, reported last month by the Washington Post, where Mr Obama exaggerated his role in legislative accomplishments. When a bipartisan attempt was made to reform America's immigration policy, Mr Obama claimed to be one of the senators who in 2006 "had to wake up early to try to hammer this stuff out." If it were true, it would've boosted his repuation as a uniter of Republicans and Democrats. But miffed Senate staffers say Mr Obama never attended the critical early morning negotiating sessions where the bill was hammered out. And he played an even smaller role when the issue was re-visited in 2007—after showing up late for a meeting he was even upbraided by Ted Kennedy.More recently, when referring to housing legislation unveiled this year, Mr Obama called it "the legislation I put forward with my colleague Chris Dodd". Mr Dodd, an Obama supporter, may be too kind to say so, but this simply isn't accurate. Mr Obama backed the measure, as did Mrs Clinton, but he did not author or sponsor the legislation, which is to say he didn't put it forward anymore than Mrs Clinton did.
In yet another instance Mr Obama claimed to have passed a bill on nuclear regulation that never made it out of the Senate.
And Obama is still trotting out the lie that John McCain wants a 100-year war in Iraq (yes, I'm calling it a lie now, because he's been called on it yet he still keeps making this bogus claim). Maybe I'm a little naive, but I thought that one of the primary tasks our media has is to hold politicians' words accountable. Alas. Perhaps, like Chris Matthews, there are thrills going up their legs when they're in his presence. What will it take for them to overcome their bedazzlement and do their jobs?
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"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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The politics of change is no misnomer, I’ve never heard of this happening before-
“Get me more white people, we need more white people.” To an Asian girl sitting in the back row, one coordinator said, “We’re moving you, sorry. It’s going to look so pretty, though.”
However, crafting political rallies into pretty pictures isn't exactly a radical departure from the old way of doing things.
--"I can no more disown him [Reverend Jeremiah Wright] than I can disown the black community"- Senator Barack Obama, March 18, 2008
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)You've never heard of a political or other institution selecting who is going to be in a picture based on getting a mix of different ethnicities?
Because, um, I have. Also, I'd like to offer you an opportunity to purchase my rock-lifting services.
--It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.
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| parent )Never heard of a call for more white people to help make a prettier picture. Token brown people sure, but not white ones.
--"I can no more disown him [Reverend Jeremiah Wright] than I can disown the black community"- Senator Barack Obama, March 18, 2008
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| parent )Depends on the institution and local ethnic makeup, of course.
--It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.
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| parent )When will it all end?
Think of the children.
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)Me: We! -- Ali
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| parent )I expect Mac will be along any moment to tell us all exactly what those monkeys flew out of.
--Excess on occasion is exhilarating. It prevents moderation from acquiring the deadening effect of a habit. - W. Somerset Maugham
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| parent )A plurality of South Korean military cadets now see the US as their number one enemy:
Hmm, maybe we should find a new model for what Iraq is supposed to be. I join Pranky in nominating the Magic Kingdom for consideration, though obviously some democratic reforms would be involved.
Oh, and Mr. Kim should really look up the word "majority", though I'm willing to grant some latitude to non-native speakers.
--The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.
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)Obama drops a busybody delegate, not because she’s an overprotective killjoy (the reason I’d like to have seen her dropped), but because she called black kids playing in a tree monkeys. Chalk one up for the politics of change I guess, and to that mature and necessary conversation on race we’re supposed to be having.
--"I can no more disown him [Reverend Jeremiah Wright] than I can disown the black community"- Senator Barack Obama, March 18, 2008
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)Carpentersville is a poor town on the Fox River with a large population of illegal aliens. These people work in the surrounding suburbs. Carpentersville has a substantial crime problem.
Linda Ramirez-Sliwinski has a big mouth. She's not well-liked. When Carpentersville attempted to push illegal aliens out of the town, Ramirez-Sliwinski was their loudest advocate. Other suburbs in Kane County are doing well: East and West Dundee, Elgin, and the like. Carpentersville is viewed as a troubled town: its schools are just about the worst in the state. Carpentersville recently made news when one of the taco stands along Route 25 turned out to be a cocaine distribution point. My wife's school is on its third year of probation. Carpentersville is a mess, and Linda Ramirez-Sliwinski is its loudest voice.
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| parent )rather than just for yelling at the neighbors kids.
--"I can no more disown him [Reverend Jeremiah Wright] than I can disown the black community"- Senator Barack Obama, March 18, 2008
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| parent )I'm afraid your shade won't be getting that invitation to Denver this year. Yes, it's the "monkey" thing again.
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| parent )What in Sam Hill is wrong with Carpentersville? Is it part of the United States, or some other country where speech is free unless someone persuades the authorities to find it offensive?
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )The kids were her neighbor's, in her neighbor's tree. The ticket is probably for harrassing them or disturbing the peace or some such.
--The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.
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| parent )http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-carpenter-trustee-both-08ap...
She's fighting the citation, and I'm pretty sure she'll win. Sounds like a bogus ordinance to me. Felicitous use of the word "monkey"? Definitely not. Disturbing, alarming, threat to the peace? Doesn't sound like it.
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )Gotta say, my wife and I call our kids "little monkeys" all the time. Being 7 and 4, they tend to, you know, hang off of stuff in various uncomfortable looking poses.
--The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.
- H.L. Mencken
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| parent )but it was because I crapped in my hand and threw it at folks. In turn, I called everyone around me "sh!thead", I had good aim.
--It's not only redundant, it's also repetitive
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| parent )One fell off and the doctor said...
Hey. It's one of Tess's favorite stories.
--"How is the world ruled, and how do wars start? Diplomats tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read." -- Karl Kraus, 1909
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| parent )...the myth about black men lookin' like monkeys on SNL decades ago.
A utubing I go. Funny sketch.
--Me: We! -- Ali
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| parent )....the skit where he got made-up as a white guy.
"You need money? Take what you want and pay us back whenever you can! Or don't pay us back at all! I don't care! Hahahaha!"
--The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.
- H.L. Mencken
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| parent )That was my brother & I growing up. Box springs have gotten a lot more expensive since those days.
But if I were feuding with a neighbor & they called my kids monkeys, I wouldn't take it in a friendly way. Also, if it makes for embarrassing headlines, it's unfelicitous by definition.
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )for being an annoying harpy, but if that’s against the law then I see an opening for Obama to finally dispatch of Hillary.
--"I can no more disown him [Reverend Jeremiah Wright] than I can disown the black community"- Senator Barack Obama, March 18, 2008
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| parent )compared to the psychotherapy bills these kids will amass from the incident I'm sure.
--"I can no more disown him [Reverend Jeremiah Wright] than I can disown the black community"- Senator Barack Obama, March 18, 2008
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| parent )Bird is finding a much more receptive audience for this diary over at TalkLeft. Much as they have welcomed Instapundit, WSJ, and Fox News -- as long as they're attacking Obama -- they pulled up a nice comfy chair for Bird at the table.
Enjoy!
--"How is the world ruled, and how do wars start? Diplomats tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read." -- Karl Kraus, 1909
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)...stop by one of Armando's threads and start railing on Hillary. Strange temporary bedfellows. BTW, my endorsement of Obama for Democratic nominee still stands.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent )Deletion awaits you! :)
--"How is the world ruled, and how do wars start? Diplomats tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read." -- Karl Kraus, 1909
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| parent )Is Team McCain as scared of the "100 year war" comment as you are? I intend to keep harping on it for as long as it is effective. Whether it is true or not it was a dumb thing for him to say.
--John McCain, Serial Adulterer or Reckless Hothead? Ha! Ha! Gotcha! That is a trick question. He is both.
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)I'll go with the Hug(s).
Together, we can't lose!
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| parent )I am curious to see how our pals on the Right are going to quiet the "Do you want four more years of the Bush Administration?" refrain we will hear every day when the Dems finally have a nominee.
--John McCain, Serial Adulterer or Reckless Hothead? Ha! Ha! Gotcha! That is a trick question. He is both.
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| parent )The bottom center, and most famous (infamous) of them all. Check it out. The head placed subserviently on the Alpha Male's chest, the desperate grasp for love and approval, the plangent look of need and want on his face.
Ahhh. It's kinda sweet.
--"How is the world ruled, and how do wars start? Diplomats tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read." -- Karl Kraus, 1909
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| parent )Let me just see if I'm clear on this. McCain doesn't want a 100 year war, he just wants the troops to stay in Iraq for 100 years because Iraq will become South Korea. He wants 100 years of American occupation as long as Americans are not being harmed.
OK. Fair enough. My question: if Iraq does not become South Korea, if there is no point at which Americans are not being harmed, does McCain get us out? And after how many years would he decide it was appropriate to make the call? Please support your answer with a quote from McCain to the effect that, in some circumstance, he would give up on Iraq.
Basically, either McCain's "100 years" answer meant pretty much what Obama says it did -- or McCain is a closet defeatist. Which is it?
--The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.
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)"How is the world ruled, and how do wars start? Diplomats tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read." -- Karl Kraus, 1909
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| parent )or alternative energy sources will have been found at which point the world will lose interest in the Persian Gulf area, and the Arabs and Persians can resume their millennia-old local feud.
Its not that long a time period, we're only talking about the energy requirements of our grandchildren.
--Manish Ghosh
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| parent )A presence of American troops similar to South Korea or Germany or Kuwait is that the U.S. prevailed in its engagement and that troops are there for stability and peacekeeping purposes. Your "if" hypothetical questions are fair questions, but if our mission is ultimately defeated in Iraq, I can't see how or why we would have any troops there, especially if an Iraqi government is telling us we should leave. It's clear to me that the Reid-Pelosi wing of the party believes we've already lost, hence their consistent clamoring for sending troops home. I don't have McCain's comments on what we should do if we are defeated there, but McCain has never said he wants 100 years of combat or war-like conditions in Iraq.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent )much obvious after Ambassador Crocker's statement. The rules of the game have been set up, and democratically validated. It is very difficult to argue now, in a legal sense, that the US occupation forces do not now have a valid reason to stay on in Iraq.
An important Rubicon has been crossed with the declaration of the multilateral and multidimensional agreement between the Governments of Iraq and the US perpetuating and legitimising the current presence and future engagement of US troops in Iraq.
The goundwork has been laid to make if difficult, if not impossible, for any current or future Democratic or Republican administration to walk away from Iraq.
That being the case, the debate should now move on to how the continuing US presence in Iraq can be leveraged to the advantage of all parties.
--Manish Ghosh
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| parent )No Iraqi government "elected" during US occupation will ask us to leave. That's a different thing.
--It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.
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| parent )is McCain's metric for "defeat". It's not something he talks about much, obviously, but if he wants to clarify his 100 years remark, the most expedient way to do it would be to say "I want to stay in Iraq for 100 years if Americans are not being harmed. I will remove American troops from harm's way in Iraq if..."
I have no idea how he'd finish that sentence.
--The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.
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| parent )"victory" tests well in focus groups, "defeat" tests poorly. Expect McCain to repeatedly use the word "victory" no matter what the actual situation on the ground is in Iraq. Expect the same from BD, Redstate and any other Republican partisans. The worst words they will use are "unclear", "struggle", "in doubt", etc. Just look at Vietnam for an example, even when it's clear there was a defeat they'll go to the old "we could have won, except for the Democrats" line they've been using for 30 years. Please, no German words in the replies to this.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )And yes, you're right. Competitive Myth-Making, Twenty-First Century Edition.
I can hardly wait for the movies. Who will the new Stallone be? (Hey, it might even be Stallone, he's still pretty spry.)
--The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.
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| parent )that's a question which is avoided by calling others liars over and over.
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| parent )What does McCain want to do if we neither a) win nor b) lose? It's worth noting, we didn't win in Korea but stayed there anyway. What's McCain's plan for a stalemate? What's his plan if we lose?
Obama's characterization of the 100 years comment is entirely accurate until McCain explains what conditions would lead him to withdraw. Because it sounds like he's saying he'll stay as long as it takes to win, no matter how long that might be.
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )The issue has to do with Obama has said, not with what McCain has not said.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent )from McCain's remark. Since McCain has mentioned no conditions for a withdrawal from Iraq, ever, anywhere, there's simply no other inference to make.
In fact, McCain's website makes the case for increasing troop committments to Iraq, while, once again, leaving conditions for victory and withdrawal completely undefined.
For what it's worth, I tend to agree that we need to stay and work towards a "good enough" solution to ensure regional stability. But I'm not willing to try for 100 years before throwing in the towel.
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )because he has no basis for such inference, only distortion. McCain's conditions for withdrawing troops is based on assessments of the situation on the ground and the ability of Iraqi forces to be independent or in the lead. After that, it depends on the security arrangements the American and Iraqi governments negotiate. If you want to know his conditions for success, look to his latest speech, which is worth a full read:
"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent )a) John McCain says we ought to stay in Iraq for 100 years, providing no troops are being killed;
b) John McCain opposes *any* withdrawal from Iraq while troops are being killed. In other words, he's going to accept nothing less than success on the extremely high standards listed in the speech you quote. Any reasonable person would have to agree it will be a *long* time before most of those benchmarks are met in Iraq.
c) It is reasonable to assume John McCain thinks we'll be there for a long time. How long? 100 years is the only specific amount of time he's willing to specify. According to Josh Marshall, he even tossed out figures like 1,000 years and 1,000,000 years during the primary. I'm gonna assume he was joking, but all the same Obama is not lying when he says McCain is taking a "long" position on the war.
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )You're ignoring what Obama is saying by focusing on what McCain has never said. If you want to criticize McCain for not being specific enough about the conditions for withdrawing troops and definitions of victory and definitions of defeat, fine, make that case, but it has nothing to do with Obama's distorting statements about what McCain has said. There is a difference between fighting a war and having a military presence in a country. It's a fundamental distinction that Obama and his supporters fail to make, and that's why such repeated claims are dishonest.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent )Obama is advancing an entirely supportable interpretation of McCain's words.
McCain keeps advancing this line that Iraq is going to magically get better, and then we'll be stationing troops there to protect our magic ally, as in South Korea. He's painted into a corner. Either he meant:
1) Iraq is going to be won shortly, and then will be an allied state to the United States. Neither of these statements are remotely supportable; any non-despotic (and likely any despotic) government which takes power in Iraq will be closely aligned with Iran and will have vastly different interests from the US.
2) Iraq is not going to be won shortly, and we should dig in for the long haul, perhaps for decades.
So -- either McCain's a liar then, or he's a liar now, or he's a liar on both counts. At that point, who's to know what he said or meant? Given his total unwillingness to define a plausible situation in which we should leave Iraq, however, Obama's interpretation remains the strongest. McCain is, to my mind, calling for a generational war in Iraq.
--It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.
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| parent )... being optimistic, then?
h.
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| parent )McCain has never once put forth a reasonable and achievable condition for the withdrawal of US troops, as far as I can tell there are no realistic and achievable conditions that he would allow for it. His parameters change every time he opens his mouth. You neglected to mention that some of his expectations include that Iraq be an ally against Iran and that the Iraqi government practice religious tolerance - interestingly, things that Saddam Hussein provided but that none of our other "allies" in the area do.
In the case of the 100 years quote, you're parsing so fiercely I can see the letters flying into the air from here. His quote was "We've been in Japan for 60 years. We've been in South Korea for 50 years or so. That would be fine with me, as long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed." But of course AMERICANS ARE BEING INJURED AND HARMED AND KILLED. So he's either talking about a fantasyland that doesn't exist, or he's being deceptive to woo the deadenders (this did happen during the primaries). In either case it's mere rhetoric and bears no relation to reality.
John McCain is not qualified physically, emotionally or mentally to be President of the US. The beauty of this election is that all he has to do is talk, the more he talks the more his shortcomings are revealed and the more the American people will turn against him. This giant clusterf&^% of a war, which was conceived and executed by possibly the most ignorant administration is US history is and will be considered a loss, a horrible mistake that has the Republican trademark written all over it. I'm glad you guys are going all in on it, that will make the responsibility for it crystal clear.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )You're the one spinning, not me. Again, go by the Fact Checker:
Obama earned two Pinocchios for "significant omissions and/or exaggerations", but thanks for enabling.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent )you still won't admit that McCain called for a 100 year (or longer) US presence under conditions that don't exist and won't realistically exist for many years.
He has a history of going off half cocked and saying things he has to go back and "explain" later. He's emotionally unqualified to be President, he apparently lacks even a modicum of self control.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent ).
--It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.
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| parent )nt
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| parent ).
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent ).
--It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.
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| parent )"Thomas Friedman is my favorite columnist."
--The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.
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| parent )This whole "McCain didn't say he wanted to fight for 100 years" is sheer nonsense. McCain is unwilling to say how long he will fight and considers any timetable a way of handing a victory to our enemies so it's clear there is no time limit for war he is willing to accept.
The good thing about this election is that it should act as a way to clarify the political will of the American electorate to remain in Iraq. Either side will be able to claim a clear mandate in this area if they win.
--Standard Disclaimer: I only speak for myself. I may or not agree with others. Ask, if you are curious. If I post about X I may not have an opinion about Y, no matter how closely related you think they are.
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| parent )It doesn't matter what happens in November. There is no way the US gov't is going to leave a power vacuum in the Middle East. Bush and his band of morons tied our hands when they lied us into this war.
--John McCain, Serial Adulterer or Reckless Hothead? Ha! Ha! Gotcha! That is a trick question. He is both.
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| parent ).
--The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.
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| parent )Everyone who bought into their bullshait, including me, is the moron. Looking back on it all I shake my head and mutter at how stupid I was.
--John McCain, Serial Adulterer or Reckless Hothead? Ha! Ha! Gotcha! That is a trick question. He is both.
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| parent )is about as flipping stupid as it gets. "Oh, you guys are leaving in 10-12 months? Then we'll just plan our coup for the following week. Is Tuesday good for you?"
It's kind of like saying "If there's a rash of car bombings in June, we're getting out."
That doesn't mean a contingent withdrawal might not be a good idea -- I'd make it contingent on stability if I were in charge.
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )I'm not arguing that point.
I'm simply pointing out that it's perfectly correct to say that McCain is willing to stay 100 years fighting since he is unwilling to set any kind of date.
--Standard Disclaimer: I only speak for myself. I may or not agree with others. Ask, if you are curious. If I post about X I may not have an opinion about Y, no matter how closely related you think they are.
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| parent )If our paramount concern were influencing the behavior of factions in Iraq, we'd have to elect Presidents without evaluating their (presumably secret) plans, and that's not feasible. Our planning is both long-term and public, of necessity, precisely because we don't give our elected officials carte blanche. This is a major reason why democracies are so terrible at being occupying powers.
--The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.
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| parent )If not, then Obama's characterization is dead on.
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )McCain's walkback was based entirely on the notion that we could stay there a hundred -- or a thousand, or ten thousand -- years as long as our soldiers are not in danger.
So I guess we're bringin' 'em home at some point in the near future. Or does the metric only kick in after a 100?
--"How is the world ruled, and how do wars start? Diplomats tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read." -- Karl Kraus, 1909
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| parent )if it becomes South Korea.
1000 if it becomes Wisconsin.
10,000 if it becomes Disneyland. Maybe more.
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| parent )WSJ
Legislators that formally add their name to a bill are said to be its co-sponsors, and here the Journal even uses the word sponsor. Of course, it's a leap to say that you need to be a sponsor to honestly state that you have "put forward" a bill. Obama is the presumptive nominee of his party; his support for the bill is key. It's inconceivable that his supporter, Chris Dodd, would not consult him from the get-go. Moreover. Obama's support came at very introduction of the proposal.
BD, I had said before you were a candidate for Parser of the Year... with this one you've surely clinched the honor. Come on, politics doesn't need to be this petty.
--More Wagster!
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| parent )This would be an Obama embellishment more than anything because he overstated his role. As for Parser of the Year, I can think of several candidates here that have me beat.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent )which is that the poster cares about a given candidate's falsehoods, rather than the letter after his or her name.
McCain's economic policy, for example, relies on fairy dust and unicorn fertilizer. This is substantive policy, and McCain's website is promoting outright falsehood.
Each of the statements below is either false outright or grossly misleading.
How many McCain untruths will it take? An infinite number, of course, because this isn't about untruths, it's about character assassination.
--It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.
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)Please explain why you think so. You could even write a diary on it. And why are well-supported untruths spoken by Obama "character assassination"?
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent ).
--It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.
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| parent )If the first two are false as reported in the WPost, they have yet to be shot down (... at least Media Matters had nothing on it and I didn't unearth anything elsewhere w. a quick google search.)
In fact the original article seemed fairly even-handed to me, tho authors Shailagh Murray + Jonathan Weisman of the WPost have a mixed record.
... Overall I don't see why we can't have more light vs. heat.
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)In this regard, I seem to recall your repeated insult to the Spanish people with the "Spanish Flee" phrase that went around the right-wingnutosphere, even though Aznar was voted out because he got caught lying about the attack in order to save his sorry political behind.
Many Spaniards did vote against Aznar to get out of Iraq. But this was their thinking well before the attack: They thought it was wrong out of conviction, not fear.
But you seemed to think that this was fair game. In fact you were so inspired by this false representation that you broke into poetry:
Puzzling that Obama's far less inaccurate prose makes you protest so, so much.
--We are in serious, worsening trouble.
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)I'm mostly struck by the tack of the linked post.
Par for the course in '04.
... Guess it could be a sign of optimism that such posts are currently more rare.
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| parent )just when did barack obama say that john mccain "wants a 100-year war in iraq"?
your link quotes him saying "He wants to continue this war in Iraq maybe for another 100 years."
that mccain said he could foresee eventualities requiring troops in iraq for up to 100 years in undisputed.
that mccain's iraq policy is a continuation of the surge policy is undisputed.
that the surge policy can be characterized as a continuation of the war is obvious, if only by the continued combat operations which result in the continued death and maiming of thousands of us soldiers a year - not to mention too many iraqis that we can't even properly count.
so: mccain want soldiers to continue fighting in iraq - and he says we may need soldiers there maybe for up to 100 years.
sounds like this is pretty accurate then, even though it doesn't paint mccain's remarks in the most flattering light: "He wants to continue this war in Iraq maybe for another 100 years."
that's what mccain said, and he obviously is getting a bit of rough treatment for putting his foot in his mouth that way. such is life.
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)if BD posted cartoons making fun of Obama instead.
lol
--Envy was once considered to be one of the deadly sins before it became one of the most admired virtues under its new name, social justice. --Thomas Sowell
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| parent )- Login or register to post comments
| parent )Man, that'll sting in the morning.
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| parent )- Login or register to post comments
| parent )M Scott is suggesting you were too polite.
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| parent )There's no substantive difference between "wants a 100-year war in Iraq" and "he wants to continue this war in Iraq for maybe another 100 years", except Obama used a few more words this time. Obama's used other slight variations, all saying the same thing. Even after CJR and Dobbs called him on it, he's still trotting it out. Far as I'm concerned, this continuing usage moves it from untruth to lie. As I wrote in my earlier post, McCain used South Korea as an example of the kind of situation where American troops would stay in Iraq. We haven't been at war in Korea since the 1950s.
As it is, you're violating the posting rules and I expect the moderators to respond accordingly.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent )i think there _is_ a difference between "wants a 100 year war" and "wants to continue this war for maybe 100 years."
in fact obama's statement is just plain fact. no one believes mccain _wants_ to wage war for 100 years, and obama is not saying that. yet mccain _will_ continue this war, and he made clear the timeframes he was looking at were quite a bit lengthier than the tolerance of the average voter. since he made clear that timeframe was on the order of decades or centuries, i feel it's fair for obama to point that out.
i think you're mischaracterizing obama's words in pretty much the way you claim he is mischaracterizing mccain's words. and since you have done it several times and since you claim this type of mischaracterization counts as a lie.....
when john kerry said "i was for it before i was against it" he had a perfectly reasonable rationale for the statement -- as you well know -- but the fact is that by saying it, he put his foot in his mouth, and neither you nor anyone else on your side was going to let it slide.
now mccain's done it. "make it a hundred". i find his korea and germany comparisons laughable. but i suppose you can accept them if you ignore that the troops in germany were and in north korea were indeed participants in a faceoff between the rival hegemonies of nation states with the distinct possibility, if you recall, of things getting hot rather quickly. if you want to pound that square peg into th ecounterinsurgency hole, be my guest.
bottom line, mccain wants to continue the war. his timeframe is quite lengthy for doing that.
if you really feel obama is mischaracterizing mccains position, then you might do better in explaining what mccains position is and how it differs than just bandying about your "obama untruths".
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| parent )Or should I say OBS. Too bad there isn't a cream or something to treat it, or least for your delusional levels of obtuseness. But after your failed attempt to insinuate racism on my part, I really don't care what you have to say anymore.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent )for someone so engaged in partisan rhetoric, you wear your thin skin as a shield. maybe you're the one that needs the cream.
by the way, for the record i did not accuse you of racism, but said that your stupid joke was certainly ill thought out and betrayed a lack of education on a couple of different levels. i don't believe you are a racist but i really felt on my first read of your little essay that it had to be the work of someone who knew the provenance of the words used therein, to and be honest i was pretty surprised at its implications. i'm glad that it was merely ignorance and not racism that caused you to make such a ill considered choice of words.
by the way, i suppose my bringing up the whole HIV thing, which was roundly ignored in your protestations, makes me some kind of CBS victim (or whatever your insult of the month is). and that joke by the way i found far more offensive. the mojo thing is just crude, the HIV joke cruel.
anyways as usual here your response is not to address what the issue is between mccains words and obamas' representation, but to attack me as some kind of obama fan boy. whatever, i don't care, my skins a bit thicker than that.
good luck to you.
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| parent )That is addressed to both nilsey and BD. Nilsey, if calling BD a stupid, maleducated liar is the best argument you have against his Obama posts, then you've got no argument. BD, please quit rising to the bait. It's a total waste of all of our time. And none of us want to hear about what creams & salves we use on a regular basis.
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )That last line made me shudder again.
--The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.
- H.L. Mencken
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| parent )about snooping in people's medicine cabinets. Never a good idea.
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )if you will review the diary in question,to my accusation that BD was using a potentially racially loaded term to describe obama the main points of defense were lengthy and copious quotations from internet dictionaries to prove their own ignorance of that racial meaning, a meaning which is unfortunately there regardless of ones ignorance of it.
if someone wants to cling to ignorance as a defense, well why can't i point that out?
on the other hand, i never called anyone stupid. i really didn't. not sure where you got that. ignorant <> stupid.
i did call BD a liar but that was basically shock treatment to get the following issue on the table: if misrepresenting peoples positions by using quotes counts as a lie, than BD is guilty of it in this case, as i attempt to show in the subtsnace of the comment. and pretty much everyone is subject to that accusation over time, if you are going to argue about what people mean when they use words.
i apologize for violating the posting rules in this instance, and i apologize to BD for hurting his feelings. but frankly this whole "insult the comment not the commenter" and "people posting to the forvm cannot be insulted, people not posting to the forvm are fair game" ethic has struck me as pretty ridiculous for a while now.
you basically have wound up with people calling others -- but not anyone here of course! -- deranged HIV sufferers who can be helped only medically with various ointments etc.
yeah, i said ointments again, sorry. i thought it was gross, too, but it didn't spring from my imagination.
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| parent )Which person has the thinner skin, the one who reads harsh criticism of his candidate and lashes out with race cards and smears, or the person whose character has been impugned. I suggest it's the former. Far as I'm conerned, anyone whose character integrity has been impugned has the right to defend his/her intellectual integrity as aggressively as he/she wants. Oh, and apology not accepted for "hurting his feelings". Your offense wasn't the hurting of feelings, it was the personal attack you made. It wasn't my reaction that merits apology, it's the content of your smears. Done with you.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent )seems to me that if you are going to be bandying about the term liar when obama's interpretations of mccains pronouncements differ from your own, you've may as well direct the term at everyone in this thread arguing their similar interpretation of mccains words.
as has been amply demonstrated by myself and others, mccain's 100 years gaffe lends itself readily to an interpretation which was voiced by obama - nor is obama the only one voicing that interpretation.
are you calling everyone who agrees with obamas interpretation a liar? if so then the shoe fits your own foot as well -- if we take the opposite view and declare our own interpretations as privileged truths.
again, i apologize for the brusque fashion i sought to illustrate this. on previous offenses you feel you have endured from me i can't be as indulgent -- i think a fair reading of my comments will show that far from a "race card" being "played", i was genuinely concerned at the implication of the word in question. i'll make no apology for knowing the meanings of words, and apparently you will also make no apology for _not_ knowing them.
and here's hoping that HIV joke was just a glitch in the underlying good nature of your humorous endeavors.
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| parent )are you calling everyone who agrees with obamas interpretation a liar?
Believing Obama's lie does not make you a liar. Delusional, perhaps. Or perhaps trouble reading and comprehending basic English.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent )they're the main reason this place is neither an echo chamber of right or leftie talking points, nor a 24/7 shouting match. It's surprising how quickly ad hom contests can dominate an otherwise interesting discussion.
Anyhow, this site may be far from perfect, but it's also one of only 3-4 places on the whole interweb that can keep an actual 2-sided conversation alive.
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )This cream stuff is grossing me out.
--"How is the world ruled, and how do wars start? Diplomats tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read." -- Karl Kraus, 1909
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| parent )There's a posting rules violation. Release the hounds!!
--"How is the world ruled, and how do wars start? Diplomats tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read." -- Karl Kraus, 1909
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| parent )It would be far more accurate and within the posting rules to suggest that this diary is hysterical nonsense steeped in falsehood and seemingly the latest in an unending series of diaries devoted to distortion and bile. On the other hand, this diary contains no dog whistles, for which we should, I suppose, be grateful.
Better now?
--"How is the world ruled, and how do wars start? Diplomats tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read." -- Karl Kraus, 1909
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| parent )As usual, you're long on creative rhetoric and short on substance.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent )...is to claim that McCain doesn't want 100 years of war. He wants us there for 100 years, it will likely be war the entire time, and he's made clear that if it is war the entire time, he wants us there anyway. What's to dispute?
--It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.
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)