Why I found Obama's speech lousy and offensive

Bird Dog's picture

For one, I agree with the left-leaning Michael Tomasky:

Let’s be blunt. Barack Obama gave a dull and pedestrian speech tonight, with nary an interesting thematic device, policy detail, or even one turn of phrase.

[...]

I didn’t like the lack of specifics at all. The thing I loved most about the Clinton speech was the specifics. The 24 vs. 42 million jobs created under Republican and Democratic administrations, the explanation of why Romney “restoring” that $716 billion would deplete the Medicare Trust Fund more quickly: that’s great stuff. And especially important, I think, in an election like this one. When you’re running against people to whom facts are irrelevant, the way you kill them is with facts. Not with rhetoric that’s vague and too subtle.

[...]

The night’s big thematic device, the “it wasn’t me, it was you” business, sounded like a somewhat forced attempt, frankly, to come up with…something. He was trying to re-inspire the Obamabots of 2008. But it felt very superficial to me. Nothing in this speech was developed, nothing given hard thought, nothing that built to a great moment. Jeezy peezy, did Mitt Romney give a better speech last week? Not quite, but almost.

Right. Tomasky liked Obama's citizenship schtick, but I hated it. Here's why:

These are enduring, legitimate disagreements between the two sides, both of which remain fundamentally American in their outlook. The history of the United States cannot be told without both narratives.

Yet Barack Obama would have none of that last night. He explained the choice in terms of “citizenship” – the idea that we all have responsibilities as well as rights, that there is a sense of shared responsibility that binds us together, and that the government is not about what is done “for” us, but “by” us.

The opposition, on the other hand, wants limited inclusiveness, a laissez-faire policy of economics, the domination of special interests and lobbyists, and a general sense that everybody is on their own.

The first idea, that of “citizenship,” is a quintessentially American idea, and Obama is right to have picked up on these themes from our history. Yet he turned them into partisan tropes last night. After all, both sides agree with these basic premises – the real debate is what comes next. Hamiltonians have one answer and modern progressives have another. The implication of his speech last night was that progressives have a monopoly on these values, and that opposition to their economic and social program is somehow inconsistent with them.

As for this so-called opposition, there has been no ideology at any point throughout American history that trumpets these values. His description is a gross mischaracterization of conservative policy (e.g. “you’re on your own”) and a ridiculous assertion that the political sins of both sides (e.g. special interest politicking) are actually the sins of just one side.

This is one of the great ironies of the Obama administration. He promised to unite us around common themes and values that we all share, but by connecting them so directly to his controversial agenda, he has time and again divided us. He has a Manichean view of American politics – he and his allies embody all of the goodness and light that America represents and his opponents represent nothing but the darkness.

There has been a growing polarization in this country over the last few decades that moves beyond matters of simple partisan support. Increasingly, it seems, one side of this great divide views the other side as somehow illegitimate. No leader since at least Richard Nixon has done more to exacerbate this dangerous tension. By inevitably redrafting shared values as Democratic ones, he feeds the impulse on the left that the right is un-American, he infuriates the right for what are vicious insults, and he lives those in the middle of the country scratching their heads.

He is the most partisan president in generations.

Exactly. High-minded rhetoric aside, this was a divisive, partisan speech, where Obama dishonestly employed strawmen to prop up his case. At least Clinton had the courtesy to spell out a few GOP positions. Obama's was a talk that was geared to his partisan base, not to independents (that I could see) and certainly not to anyone right-of-center. For those folks whose support for Romney hangs by a thread--and I am in that category--Obama didn't persuade, he irked. He wasn't talking as a president for all the people. Rather, he was talking to the folks in that room. So much for moving to the center. It was a 50-plus-1 president giving a 50-plus-1 monologue, if that. Clinton aside, I saw no movement to the center this whole week. Isn't that what presidents and parties do when primary season is over? It didn't happen, and it was perfectly encapsulated by the party's most unscripted moment. Speaking in a downsized arena seems a perfect metaphor for that event. 

Peter Beinart is another liberal who came away less than bedazzled.

Obama’s acceptance speech had two apparent goals: The first was to lay out an agenda for the next four years so people feel they have something forward-looking to vote for. The second was to recapture the sense of hope that defined Obama’s 2008 campaign.

On paper, he did both things. But what the speech lacked was a coherent explanation of the nightmare this country has gone through for the last four years. Republicans are laying the Great Recession at Obama’s feet. Obama is saying that Republicans created it and, if elected, will make it worse. To win that argument, Obama needed to explain why the financial crisis happened, and he didn’t. Yes, he mocked the GOP for proposing tax cuts as the answer to every problem, but the financial crisis didn’t happen because of tax cuts. It happened, in large measure, because Republican and some Democratic politicians—blinded by free-market fundamentalism and Wall Street largesse—allowed bankers to create unregulated markets in which they gambled the savings of millions of Americans, knowing that if their bets failed, they wouldn’t be the ones to lose their homes and their life’s savings.

Obama should have told that story, and then gone at Romney for doubling down on the ideology that almost brought America to its knees. Then he should have contrasted that with his own interventions to protect people who the market has failed: whether they be auto workers or people with sick kids.

Instead, the speech felt at times like a laundry list of policy goals, at others like an overly vague call for hope, patriotism, togetherness etc. It offered a narrative of Barack Obama’s last four years: the path from fresh, hopeful candidate to a president more aware of the tragic burdens of the office. But it didn’t offer a narrative of America’s experience of the last four years. Obama is great at evoking what’s best about America, especially since he represents it. But tonight he turned out to be less good at what—forgive me—Bill Clinton does so well: telling a story that links what’s happened in people’s lives to what’s happened in the world.

Obama couldn't downtalk the financial sector the way Beinart wanted as it is still one of his biggest financial backers...

...albeit less so this cycle. Even race-card-thrower Fournier couldn't praise the speech.

On the facts, Obama's claim to cut our deficits by $4 trillion is mostly gimmick, and there were other shortcomings. Obama can still claim the mantle of being less dishonest than Romney. So there's that.

But, overall, here is what I came away with after last night. I may or may not vote for Romney, but after what Obama told me last evening, there's not a chance in hell that I'll vote for the incumbent. I don't believe I'm the only one in that position. Come to think of it, Obama's speech actually did persuade.

UPDATE: Kevin Drum, another disappointed liberal:

That's a good riff. But it came early in the speech, and after a couple of pro forma sentences about tax cuts for millionaires (he's against them) Obama was off on an entirely unrelated riff about common effort, shared responsibility, and bold, persistent experimentation. Then he was off to the car industry. Then energy. Then a throwaway line about global warming. And all of these riffs were just that: short collections of platitudes with no real meat behind them and no promise of what a second term might bring.

After all that excellent build-up, instead of this...

 

 

...Obama delivered....

 

 

...snakes and sparklers.

 

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The citizenship bit was brilliant.

(#288962)

In fact, it was one of the only parts of the speech that both moved me and made me think. As a rhetorical device, it's flat-out awesome. 

 

The funny thing is, you take it as a partisan attack, but it isn't. It is simply a new way to highlight the virtues of American civic-mindedness, a virtue that has somewhat fallen by the wayside in recent decades. "Citizenship" is, in a way, banal, almost like saying "good is good," and typical of content-free election slogans.

 

At the same time, championing citizenship is a devastating indictment of Mitt Romney and the current Republicans in Congress. It turns their anti-government, all tax cuts all the time schtick on its ear like a badass MMA takedown. It underlines the "unity & progress" theme of the Democrats' Convention while starkly contrasting it with Republican divisiveness, obtructionism and their pervasive hostility to the government itself and to the notions of paying taxes & helping others.

 

If championing "citizenship" happens to make Republicans look bad - really bad - that is their own damn fault.

M Aurelius was probably right.

The implication is that those...

(#288965)
Bird Dog's picture

...who are not part of his "we" are against the sorts of citizenship things he was talking about. It's a strawman. The implication is that one side, by dint of Obama's policies, are the real citizens. Those who disagree with his policies, not so much. It's partisan trope couched in flowery language. We can all be good, civic-minded citizens and have different ways to solving problems. By what he said, Obama doesn't seem to believe that.

 

Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

Anyone who's against the sort of citizenship he was

(#288971)

talking about are not a part of that "we." Anyone who feels they'd rather keep their money than contribute toward some minimum standard of general welfare is not acting like a citizen. Anyone who feels the greatest problem facing the American people today is the American government is not acting like a citizen. Those who talk about "going Galt" because the human costs of doing business in the US are too much for them are welcome to do so.

 

These are completely unobjectionable definitions of citizenship. They are exclusive, but only at the far outer fringes of what any sane person would consider the minimum requirements of being a citizen. These principles were accepted & embraced by just about every single Republican candidate or officeholder from the party's founding up until, oh, 3-4 years ago.

 

If Romney & the Republicans choose to include themselves as part of the new "Galtian" breed of Republican, that's their problem. It doesn't, however, need to be a problem for the rest of us.

M Aurelius was probably right.

Oh citizen Jordan??????

(#288997)

I'd rather keep my money and I think you would too. Understanding the necessity of paying does nothing to increase the desire to do so. To grudgingly resist further empowering the govt is also the role of a responsible American citizen. Further empowerment may become necessary at certain times and circumstances but it always ought to hurt.

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

Have you taken the tax calculator challenge?

(#288999)

http://www.barackobama.com/tax-calculator/

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

Very interesting

(#289012)
HankP's picture

apparently if you vote for Mitt Romney you're voting for tax increases - until you hit about $500K in gross income.

 

So go for it conservatives - vote to increase your own taxes while bitterly complaining about how bad taxes were under Obama.

I blame it all on the Internet

We currently pay the lowest tax rates in nearly a century,

(#289001)

and government employee firings/attrition is the leading drag on unemployment numbers. Taxes are extremely low, and the government's shrinking at an alarming rate. Meanwhile the 2008 financial crisis was largely caused by rent-seeking, mismanagement and lack of oversight of the financial markets. "Deregulation."

 

The notion that the government right now might be too "big" or too intrusive seems kind of hilarious to me. It surely doesn't fit the facts as far as I can tell.

 

The notion that ooching up taxes a bit to cover shortfalls in SS and federal efforts to boost the economy & infrastructure would constitute "further empowerment" doesn't make sense to me either. From where I'm sitting, the government has been sadly negligent in performing its most basic functions: enforcing the law, enforcing standards, and maintaining "public good"-type infrastructure.

M Aurelius was probably right.

It doesn't fit the facts?

(#289020)

The war on drugs alone accounts for $40 billion a year where we could make $40 billion a year on taxation of those drugs if their sale was legalized.  If for even a second you believe that the war on drugs is either hilarious or a sign of a non-intrusive government then we simply can't have this discussion.

 

Cut the DOD.  It' gained 62k civilian employees in the last three years.  That's 800k civilian employees plus over 750k contractors.  That's a civilian employee or contractor getting paid for every active duty uniformed service member.  If that's not too big then I just have to know what is.  Nevermind the bureaucratic boondoggle that the DOD has become due to congressional requirements ultimately creating tons of those civilian and uniformed jobs.

 

Is it too much to ask that the government make wise use of the taxes it already collects before going back to the well?  A good citizen would answer yes to that.  Is the government making good use of the taxes it collects?  Is there a serious person in the room that would answer yes?

 

 

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

You're Overlooking That. . .

(#289021)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .we've seen multiple comments here that establish that a--if not *the*--major motive in raising upper tax brackets is because liberals don't trust the rich to have too much money, making eschewing tax increases in favor of spending cuts actively counterproductive from their point of view--if not outright evil.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Sure Scott

(#289023)
HankP's picture

Liberals don't want to cut funds for the drug war or the DOD.

 

I can't wait to see you try to reconcile that with 30 years of Republican propaganda.

 

I blame it all on the Internet

Didn't Say That

(#289024)
M Scott Eiland's picture

I'm just saying that liberals, given a choice between a budget solution that contains no tax increases and only cuts that have negligible negative impact, or one that contains substantial tax increases on the wealthy (with or without cuts that do cause actual pain) and which cuts the budget deficit less, liberals will choose the latter every time. I'll add that the experience of Bush the Elder proved that the word of liberals that tax increases will be followed by matching budget cuts is utterly worthless.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

????

(#289027)
HankP's picture

you obviously have blocked out the entire Clinton administration, which raised taxes and cut spending.

 

Now what you should be upset about is the fact that Republicans never follow through with the budget cuts required after tax cuts, since that's responsible for most of the national debt.

 

I blame it all on the Internet

How is the DOD to be cut?

(#289022)
HankP's picture

It certainly won't be cut if you vote R, they've already declared that it's not funded enough already. If Obama gets re-elected he'll likely reduce it as we pull out of Afghanistan, but he'll be demagogued by the GOP if he even does that. Ditto on the drug war. So I think you may not be voting your professed interests here if you're planning to vote R in this election.

 

And that's why it's too much to ask, because you're not voting for the only people who would even consider cutting those areas.

I blame it all on the Internet

40 billion dollars. 40 billion dollars??

(#289034)

Dude, the federal budget for the current year is $3.5 trillion. $40 billion is less than a rounding error. While I agree the War on Drugs is wasteful and violently counterproductive, and should be stopped, it's a miniscule part of total gov't spending. Add to that, you'd never be able to entirely eliminate the "controlled substances" budget entirely, because even legalized drugs will require enforcement, tax collection and the like.

 

How much of DOD's budget is wasteful boondoggle vs. performing some vital and/or useful function? I certainly agree that budget could be shrunk, but given that we're in a 4-year recessionary economy I have a harder time agreeing that we should lay off tens of thousands of DOD employees or start cancelling defense contracts just at the moment, as doing so will certainly glut the job market, drive up unemployment, drive down consumer spending and help tilt the economy back into recession. This is not the time to be cutting federal spending just for its own sake!

 

Back to my original point: there might be waste & objectionable spending in the government today, but the fact remains that the gov't is far leaner than it has been in recent decades, and to focus on the "size" of the gov't is to ignore the much bigger & more pressing problem of widespread unemployment, private debt overhang and lack of investment. Bloated DOD budgets didn't cause the global financial crisis, and taking an axe to them now would more likely than not make the crisis worse rather than better.

M Aurelius was probably right.

It's a 3% reduction on the deficit

(#289072)

6% if taxes are colleccted on legalized drugs. Unpredictable but possibly significant cost savings elsewhere. That ain't a rounding error, that's one horrible program eliminated and a measurable deficit reduction. When the government starts singing that song and then says it still needs to raise taxes, I'll listen.

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

Hmmm.. that's 6% more than social security cuts

(#289077)

since SS doesn't contribute to the deficit.

 

Yet our dumb discourse nearly always mentions the one but not the other re: deficit reduction.

$40 BN?

(#289110)

That estimate of marijuana taxation revenue might be a wee bit high. These estimates of the total size of the marijuana market are all below that amount. And if grass was legal, it would probably be a lot cheaper. How much cheaper? Look at this estimate:

That implies costs of less than $20 per pound for high-grade sensimilla and less than $5 a pound for mid-grade stuff. Another way of looking at it, suggested by California NORML Director Dale Gieringer, is that we should expect legal pot to cost about the same amount as “other legal herbs such as tea or tobacco,” something perhaps “100 times lower than the current prevailing price of $300 per ounce—or a few cents per joint.”

So paradoxically, the dollar size of the marijuana market might actually shrink if pot was legalized.

 

Of course, if the government had a monopoly on it maybe it could charge more, or if it charged a very high taxation it might make more money too, but then the black market would probably survive, and as you point out, the costs of enforcement are high.

 

There's good reasons to legalize pot, but I don't think tax revenues are one of them.

"I don't want us to descend into a nation of bloggers." - Steve Jobs

the estimates in your 1st link

(#289111)

aren't all below 40 billion.

Wouldn't the market grow if it was legal?

(#289114)
HankP's picture

if it's $X when illegal, I would think it would grow dramatically if it was legal. The beer, wine and liquor wholesale market is about $88 billion (pdf).

I blame it all on the Internet

I'm sure it would

(#289115)

But if they're right and pot gets 100x less expensive, would the market grow by 100x to make up for it?

"I don't want us to descend into a nation of bloggers." - Steve Jobs

It won't drop by 100x

(#289121)
HankP's picture

I could grow my own tobacco, but I don't. People brew their own beer, but not enough to change the market. I could see it dropping to $50 - 100 per ounce, with about 95% of that being taxes.

I blame it all on the Internet

Yeah, but they're not talking

(#289129)

About just making domestic consumption legal, but they're assuming that commercial growth would be legal. It's a weed... very easy to grow... no reason it should be more expensive than tobacco.

"I don't want us to descend into a nation of bloggers." - Steve Jobs

Easy to grow, not easy to grow well

(#289132)
HankP's picture

even a good grower couldn't match what's available today without living in the correct climate or spending a lot of money and electricity for grow lights.

I blame it all on the Internet

You're right

(#289117)

Lazy reading on my part.

"I don't want us to descend into a nation of bloggers." - Steve Jobs

Romney represents an even more exclusive citizen group

(#288986)

..if you're not a 'job creator' then you are a dependent of either 'job creators' or the government.

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

But we keep hearing

(#289118)

that Obama is for collectivism and against individualism. Isn't Citizenship just another word for being aware of the rights and responsibilities you have to the collective? You call it flowery language, but hasn't he just picked the more flattering word for what Republicans accuse him of?

"I don't want us to descend into a nation of bloggers." - Steve Jobs

I can't opine too much about domestic US politics

(#288972)
mmghosh's picture

but on one subject he actually spoke the truth - climate change is not a hoax.  Whether he will be able to do something about it or not is another matter entirely - that depends on political and economic calculations, naturally.

 

But the first stage in formulating an answer is to get basic facts right.  

That was another strawman

(#288974)
Bird Dog's picture

Romney, the standard-bearer of the GOP, doesn't think it's a hoax either. All he said was that the welfare of the American family is a higher priority for him than to "slow the rise of the oceans and to heal the planet."

 

Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

Romney is 10+ stupid:

(#288978)

Rising oceans and unpredictable weather patterns will effect the welfare of the American family. The collapse of the US corn crop this year ought to be a stark warning.

"I've been on food stamps and welfare.  Anybody help me out?  No!" Craig T. Nelson (6/2/2009)

The point is...

(#288983)
Bird Dog's picture

...the welfare of the American family can be addressed when droughts hit. We can reduce our own greenhouse gases through different measures, so long as they don't overly penalize American families. International obligations to reduce greenhouse gases, i.e., heal the planet, aren't going to work when the two other largest emitters won't participate. I think that's a fair interpretation of his positions.

Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

Of course.

(#288985)

And we don't need to worry about rising sea levels until half a dozen coastal cities or so are underwater.

 

By Republican logic, fire drills in schools should wait until the building is on fire and fully involved.

"I've been on food stamps and welfare.  Anybody help me out?  No!" Craig T. Nelson (6/2/2009)

Really?!?   By then, it'll be

(#289029)

Really?!?

 

By then, it'll be too late!

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

JKC nailed it

(#288981)

Romney is beyond stupid if he doesn't think global warming matters. The cost of the midwestern drought this year is estimated at over 70 billion dollars. Climate change is and will continue to cause enormous and costly changes.

Well, the 2nd standard bearer of the party thinks its a hoax.

(#289007)
mmghosh's picture

While I accept your POV that the top of the ticket is probably trying to big tent the party, statements such as this from someone a heart attack away from the top post are relevant, too.

Ryan: 'The CRU (Climategate) e-mail scandal reveals a perversion of the scientific method, where data were manipulated to support a predetermined conclusion

OK, maybe my words were inappropriate - Mr Ryan says "perversion", instead of "hoax".  But you get the idea, I think.

 

My post is more out of disappointment, really.  I'd like the free-market class in the USA to have suggested how they could bring in the free market more into play to combat climate change, not leaving it all to large governments, who can mess things up, as we all know.

In fact, I'll go out on a limb and say that the US free market

(#289011)
mmghosh's picture

has done a better job of cutting CO2 emissions, as both BD and I have noted in the past, simply by virtue of switching energy production to gas rather than coal - more than most governments anywhere.

 

Also, the free market has been altruistic as well - the effects of environmental destruction have been limited to the US, rather than spreading it round the world.  Not to mention additional benefits to our farmers here by the outsourcing of guar gum manufacture, an essential ingredient of the fracking process.

 

Also related, this.

That's because of a temporary glut in natural gas

(#289013)
HankP's picture

if the price of methane rockets up, the free market will happily switch back to coal.

I blame it all on the Internet

I don't think that is so.

(#289025)
mmghosh's picture

If we look at the matter in some more detail-

 

The recent natural gas finds are enormous.  That means a viable mechanism for leaving more coal in the ground.  Natural gas is a much better fit with renewables, as it is much easier to switch a gas plant on and off, and increase electricity generation to offset peak demands.  The big renewables - wind, solar and, yes, nuclear have to be given the 30 year incubation time to allow the switchover away from oil - and how providential it is for us to have natural gas tech ready just at this moment (not to forget President Carter's foresight about development of gas tech back in the 1970s).

 

Lets also talk about nuclear, which naturally needs a close PPP mechanism to deliver (and yes France has shown it is possible to have 50% of power generation by nuclear without unduly trashing the environment).  What I'm getting at, really, is that the technology to cut emissions by over 50% is available today.  Someone, anyone, government, free market, partnerships whatever just needs to seize the moment.  Everything else - population control, water management, soil management, is manageable.

 

But we have to acknowledge the existence of the problem to grasp the urgency.

The glut isn't temporary

(#289038)
Bird Dog's picture

The technology has opened up vast amounts, enabling extraction for decades to come.

 

Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

So the price of gas will be below production cost for decades?

(#289085)
HankP's picture

that is amazing. Even magical.

I blame it all on the Internet

You must be a Democrat, right?

(#289086)

You insist on using arithmetic...

I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.

It it were,

(#289151)
Bird Dog's picture

why has production ramped up so much?

Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

The Market Isn't Infallible

(#289156)

NG offers a convincing and probably permanent price advantage over crude oil, and so everybody is vying to be the last and biggest NG player left standing because eventually demand is gonna catch up with supply and it'll be profitable.

 

They hope.

You have it backwards

(#289166)
HankP's picture

supply has ramped up, that's why the price crashed.

I blame it all on the Internet

I agree

(#289242)
Bird Dog's picture

You have it backwards. The point is that technological improvements in extracting natural gas made it affordable to do so, and future demand will keep the price high enough to continue production. You can't just look at supply. Well, you could, but you'd be wrong.

 

Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

Last I checked,

(#289036)
Bird Dog's picture

the ticket was Romney-Ryan, not the other way around. There are some differences between Romney and Ryan. Funny that Romney's former top environmental advisor when he was governor now has an environmental job for Obama (link).

Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

From Your Differences Link

(#289039)

Even if Romney’s track record as Massachusetts governor was a bit greener than Ryan’s tenure in the House, there’s little that the two politicians appear to disagree on now.

 

 

Romney-Ryan or Ryan-Romney?

(#289167)
Jay C's picture

Isn't that pretty much a distinction without (much) difference?

 

One would have thought that the Sarah Palin debacle of 2008 would have taught the GOP a lesson about the value of that second spot on the ticket - and the importance of choosing a VP candidate to bolster the top-of-the-ticket person's shortcomings: and not merely bring along a different selection of weaknesses of his/her own.

One would think so

(#289244)
Bird Dog's picture

Romney made a poor choice for VP. Like with McCain, Romney picked a running mate that pleased conservatives but killed his chances of winning in the general.

 

Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

Rock and a hard place

(#289258)

If Romney hadn't pleased his conservative base, he might have depressed those #s in equal or greater proportion to his success with independents.

 

I think the plan was to get the base motivated, then rely on big money and a poor economy to weaken Obama's support and drive independents his direction.

 

But I'd say that after two base-motivating VP choices that are likely to be associated with loosing tickets, it'd be smart to choose someone with more independent appeal. Pick a woman who isn't obviously unqualified and has some cross-over appeal. 

Rupert Murdoch wants triangulation against conservatives?

(#289260)

Rupert sez: Take your base for granted and triangulate on them!

 

Election: To win Romney must open big tent to sympathetic families.  Stop fearing far right which has nowhere else to go. Otherwise no hope
— @rupertmurdoch via Twitter for
iPad

 

Could the Democratic base finally reap some rewards after decades of having Democratic presidents, who manage to get re-elected, triangulate on them? 

In descending order of surprise:

(#288979)
  1. Water is wet.
  2. Sticking your hand into an open flame will hurt you.
  3. Bird Dog finds President Obama's speech lacking.

"I've been on food stamps and welfare.  Anybody help me out?  No!" Craig T. Nelson (6/2/2009)

Exactly

(#288982)
Bird Dog's picture

Just as I found Clinton's speech lacking.

Tilt.

 

Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

Hey, I'm glad you liked Clinton's speech.

(#288984)

But we both know that if Barack Obama were to walk on water you'd complain about him wrecking a pair of shoes.  

"I've been on food stamps and welfare.  Anybody help me out?  No!" Craig T. Nelson (6/2/2009)

That's rank bulls**t

(#288993)
Bird Dog's picture

This has been trod. Your comment is false and it's a cheap mischaracterization.

Look, I get it. You don't like Romney. You don't like rich white guys (although that didn't stop you Democrats from picking a rich white guy for president). But in the interests of civility, I suggest that of instead of making wrong and emotional accusations, why don't you go kick your dog instead.

 

Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

Luckily I'm not wearing a moderator hat....

(#288994)

...because that comment comes very very close to being a PRV, in my opinion.

 

I don't like rich white guys? That is the silliest comment I have ever heard in my life. News flash: I work in a hospital with doctors. You can't swing an IV pole without hitting half a dozen rich white guys. And I like pretty much all of them, even the ones whose politics are the polar opposite of my own.

"I've been on food stamps and welfare.  Anybody help me out?  No!" Craig T. Nelson (6/2/2009)

As was yours. Both of you cool it, please.

(#288996)

NT

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

You are right about one thing:

(#289004)

don't like Mitt Romney. But it has nothing to do with his net worth.

"I've been on food stamps and welfare.  Anybody help me out?  No!" Craig T. Nelson (6/2/2009)

Fortunately, Barack Obama is one lucky guy...

(#288980)

because Mitt Romney is the dumbest Presidential candidate I can remember in my nearly fifty-two years on God's Green Earth.

Link here: I can't get the video to embed.

Republicans, for the love of the Baby Jeebus, is this what you want to hear your candidate saying about American servicemen and women?

When you give a speech you don’t go through a laundry list, you talk about the things you think are important.

Of course servicemen aren't important, Romney, you pathetic chickenhawk, because you dodged Vietnam, and the only uniform your sons have ever worn were prep school ties. I'm sure none of the soldiers who have died in the past ten-plus years of Republican-started wars are stashing bonuses in the Cayman Islands, so it's no wonder they're not on your radar.

 

If it sounds like I take this personally, I do. Two of my friends and colleagues have completed deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan. Another is still in Kandahar. And the brother of another colleague never made it home from Iraq. So Mittens can just kiss my chubby middle-aged backside.

"I've been on food stamps and welfare.  Anybody help me out?  No!" Craig T. Nelson (6/2/2009)

Embed Tip

(#288987)
  1. Write your comment in the rich text editor. Add a couple of "Returns" as a space holder for the embed;
  2. Switch to the Plain text editor;
  3. Paste in the embed code from YT in t he appropriate place;
  4. Switch back to the rich text editor. You'll see where the iframe goes, but not the video;
  5. "Save" to post.

Here's the part that used to flummox me: your embed won't appear (for you?) until you click away from the thread and return.

Thanks, not you...

(#288989)

I completely forgot about switching off the rich text. Hank's new interface has spoiled me.

"I've been on food stamps and welfare.  Anybody help me out?  No!" Craig T. Nelson (6/2/2009)

Romney points out that he extols our "strong military,"

(#288991)

as if that's the same thing. So he doesn't really see a distinction between the institution and the men & women on the front lines working within that institution. Much like he doesn't see the difference between a corporation and the people whose work makes the corporation what it is.

 

Mitt Romney seems to be kind of a d#%k.

M Aurelius was probably right.

I'd go farther:

(#289003)

I don't think Romney is capable of seeing the people involved at all, whether they're soldiers, employees, or citizens. They're invisible to him unless he's firing them.

 

"D#$K" doesn't even begin to describe the man. "Irredeemable Scumbag" comes closer.

"I've been on food stamps and welfare.  Anybody help me out?  No!" Craig T. Nelson (6/2/2009)

But you liked Bill Clinton's speech, right?

(#289002)

Because he was persuasive:

"We Democrats — we think the country works better with a strong middle class, with real opportunities for poor folks to work their way into it — (cheers, applause) — with a relentless focus on the future, with business and government actually working together to promote growth and broadly share prosperity. You see, we believe that "we're all in this together" is a far better philosophy than "you're on your own." (Cheers, applause.) It is.

So who's right? (Cheers.) Well, since 1961, for 52 years now, the Republicans have held the White House 28 years, the Democrats, 24. In those 52 years, our private economy has produced 66 million private sector jobs.

So what's the job score? Republicans, 24 million; Democrats, 42 (million). (Cheers, applause.)

Now, there's — (cheers, applause) — there's a reason for this. It turns out that advancing equal opportunity and economic empowerment is both morally right and good economics. (Cheers, applause.) Why? Because poverty, discrimination and ignorance restrict growth. (Cheers, applause.) When you stifle human potential, when you don't invest in new ideas, it doesn't just cut off the people who are affected; it hurts us all. (Cheers, applause.) We know that investments in education and infrastructure and scientific and technological research increase growth. They increase good jobs, and they create new wealth for all the rest of us. (Cheers, applause.)"

Pull the other one.

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

Even a conservative can do two things at once

(#289041)
Bird Dog's picture

He can like a speech and not agree with all of it, particularly the "you're on your own" strawman.

 

 

Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

Then I guess Sister Cambell's speech

(#289063)

was offensive too?

 

 

 

Or how about John Lewis's speech?

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

I didn't watch any of the

(#289008)

I didn't watch any of the convention and in fact I didn't read BDs post.  Politics has worn me out and I'm too busy to be angry for the sake of it.  But, I think BD should be commended for sticking around and posting in the face of a pretty left leaning commentariat.

I agree with that:

(#289009)

Bird Dog takes a lot of abuse at times, and always comes back for more. This site would be poorer without him here.

 

I miss the departed conservative commenters that used to be here. I hope some of them find their way back one of these days.

"I've been on food stamps and welfare.  Anybody help me out?  No!" Craig T. Nelson (6/2/2009)

He loves it

(#289119)

I've noticed he's more likely to respond to higher-heat comments than cool, reasoned ones. And it's not just BD, we all like the disagreement. That's why we're here.

 

"I don't want us to descend into a nation of bloggers." - Steve Jobs

Oh sure, of course he does.

(#289127)

Oh sure, of course he does.  The saying about wrestling with pigs goes for lots of us here.  A good thing to keep in mind as the election gets closer.

Yeah, big surprise

(#289014)
HankP's picture

you don't like Obama's positions, so you didn't like his speech. But like I said earlier, he would never get your vote anyway. He's looking for persuadable people and moderates. Early indications are that he and the DNC did well with them.

I blame it all on the Internet

I disagree

(#289016)

Not with the part about the speech being a bit disappointing. It certainly was--especially compared to Clinton's speech. It was heavier, less detailed and more dour than expected. But I disagree that the choice Obama portrayed was somehow unfair. It wasn't.

 

I was amused to hear the Weekly Standard sniveling about Obama impuning the "American-ness" of his opponents. Have they forgotten how conservatives routinely impuned the patriotism of those who opposed Bush's policies after 9/11? Or the vicious slanders about the citizenship of our president? The bit about Obama being really divisive was especially rich. The most divisive fight of his presidency was over implementing healthcare reform. These were policies promulgated by the Heritage Foundation and implemented by Mitt Romeny. Republicans, true to form, lied about the plan, refused to work with the president, and when it passed, responded by labeling him a socialist. Conservatives have not earned the benefit of a doubt when it comes to assessing their motivations. They well and truly are ugly and un-American. I found Obama's framing of the choice we face in this election quite fitting and elegant.

The post-9/11...

(#289042)
Bird Dog's picture

...patriotism questioning is mostly myth. Very little of it actually happened. Mostly, it was a questioning of the other side's liberalism, not patriotism.

On the rest, yes, there were conservatives who didn't play nice. They also didn't make big, phony promises about changing the tone in Washington, etc.

 

Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

Note that JP didn't put

(#289045)
brutusettu's picture

"every single conservatives routinely impuned the patriotism"

 

 

"....patriotism questioning is mostly myth. Very little of it actually happened"

 

 

That just seems odd and I'm not to certain of this claim that we haven't been at war with Oceania for very long. 

 

 

Conservatives with a soapbox must have made up an inordinately high percent of conservatives that actually question the patriotism of non-conservatives. 

"I’m to believe that North Korea is so dangerously unhinged that they would attack without warning – yet so meek and easily cowed that they will sit quietly and not retaliate when we start bombing them."

Major Kong

This is rather humorous

(#289026)
HankP's picture

"More substance than style; more specifics than rhetorical flourish." --Chris Cillizza, The Washington Post

 

"[A] lack of specifics." --AP

 

"The speech was uneven in delivery, too long, and suffered from the curse of comprehesiveness, which at times made Obama seem almost more defensive than feisty and may have even allowed some viewers to drift off between the best lines." --Katherine Marsh, The New Republic

 

"A bit of a letdown." --John McWhorter, The New Republic

 

"For the most part it felt surprisingly banal and jury-rigged, and it suffered throughout from a failure to cohere around any single theme or rhetorical style." --Ross Douthat

 

"Obama Gives Generic Speech" --NewsMax

 

"No match for the keynote address he delivered at the 2004 convention in Boston." --David Broder

 

 

 

What's so funny? These are all reviews of Obama's 2008 speech. Some things never change

 

(h/t No More Mister Nice Blog)

I blame it all on the Internet

Indeed

(#289052)
Bird Dog's picture

Some things never change, such as the shortcomings of Obama's convention speeches.

 

Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

Ha. Yeah, I remember when Palin was fully vetted nt

(#289064)
HankP's picture

.

I blame it all on the Internet

Uh, no

(#289153)
Bird Dog's picture

That would be a misremembering.

Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

I don't think so

(#289171)
HankP's picture

[link]

I blame it all on the Internet

Palin was fully vetted (I know the chief vetter)

(#289172)

Ouch, that's gotta hurt.

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

Nice cherry-pick

(#289245)
Bird Dog's picture

I took a McCain aide's word that she was vetted. Three days later it was obviously that she was not, hence my diary. Still misremembering.

 

Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

I don't understand your complaint

(#289051)

"Obama's was a talk that was geared to his partisan base, not to independents (that I could see) and certainly not to anyone right-of-center. For those folks whose support for Romney hangs by a thread--and I am in that category--Obama didn't persuade, he irked."

 

Obama's base is depressed compared to the GOP, and he is doing much better among registered than likely voters.  

 

You apparently wanted him not to try and win the election. Is that really a very reasonable complaint?

The title speaks for itself

(#289054)
Bird Dog's picture

I don't understand your last paragraph. He can try and win an election and not make a lousy, offensive speech. Doesn't seem like the two concepts have to be exclusive.

 

 

 

Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

You found it lousy b/c it didn't appeal to independents

(#289055)

Even though the numbers told Obama to try and appeal to his base instead.

 

I'm just pt.ing out that your complaint is odd. 

 

Personally I fell asleep during the speech, so I get the complaint that it was dull.  

Lousy on several fronts

(#289154)
Bird Dog's picture

It was lousy in comparison to Clinton's. It was lousy because of the platitudes and strawmen. It was lousy because it was a partisan, divisive speech. If that's odd, well, guilty as charged.

 

Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

Tell it to Mitt Romney

(#289056)

..and the GOP, who are running a lousy and offensive campaign.

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

Whoa dude. Silver predicting massive Obama bounce - 3x Romney's

(#289088)

 

Conservative reaction to this news:

(#289095)

Americans don't deserve us.

 

Amen to that.

"I've been on food stamps and welfare.  Anybody help me out?  No!" Craig T. Nelson (6/2/2009)

Undeserving

(#289096)

Maybe that's why Americans weren't privileged enough to have former front-runners Gingrich, Cain, nor Perry speak at the convention, nor former VP nominee Palin, nor former president Bush II. Santorum was there, but had a low-profile slot.

 

There seems to be quite a batch of high profile Republicans of which the American people aren't worthy.   

Or vice-versa...

(#289099)

<nt>

"I've been on food stamps and welfare.  Anybody help me out?  No!" Craig T. Nelson (6/2/2009)

This is why there will be no moderation

(#289102)
HankP's picture

no matter how the election turns out. While the expiration of the Bush tax cuts is one thing, the failure to raise the debt limit could be catastrophic.

I blame it all on the Internet

I sincerely hope

(#289103)

That they live up to their ideals, and finally, forever go Galt.