Will Obama's past catch up?


It's kind of ironic. There I was, months ago, making an issue of Hillary Clinton trying to lawyer her way to the Democratic nomination, yet twelve years ago Barack Obama lawyered his way to victory. I feel so used. Actually, not. Obama has decried cynicism in politics time and again, yet in his career he has employed cynical means to gain political advantage. His 1996 race for an Illinois State Senate seat is a case in point:

In that book, Mr. Obama paints a portrait of himself as a genuine reformer and change agent, just as he has in this presidential campaign. He attributes his 1996 victory to his message of hope, and his exhortations that Chicagoans drop their justifiable cynicism about politics.

When voters complained of all the broken promises politicians had made in the past, Mr. Obama writes that he "would usually smile and nod, and say that I understood the skepticism, but that there was -- and always had been -- another tradition to politics, a tradition based on the simple idea that we have a stake in one another, and that what binds us together is greater than what drives us apart, and that if enough people believe in the truth of that proposition and act on it, then we might not solve every problem, but we can get something meaningful done."

Mr. Obama writes that even if the voters were not impressed by this speech, "enough of them appreciated my earnestness and youthful swagger that I made it to the Illinois legislature."

In real life, it did not matter what Mr. Obama said on the stump or whether South Side voters were impressed. What mattered was that, beginning on Jan. 2, 1996, his campaigners began challenging thousands of petition signatures the other candidates in the race had submitted in order to appear on the ballot. Thus would Mr. Obama win his state Senate seat, months before a single vote was cast.

According to the Chicago Tribune, Mr. Obama's petition challengers reported to him nightly on their progress as they disqualified his opponents' signatures on various technical grounds -- all legitimate from the perspective of law. One local newspaper, Chicago Weekend, reported that "[s]ome of the problems include printing registered voters name [sic] instead of writing, a female voter got married after she registered to vote and signed her maiden name, registered voters signed the petitions but don't live in the 13th district."

One of the candidates would speculate that his signature-gatherers, working at a per-signature pay rate, may have cheated him by signing many of the petitions themselves, making them easy to disqualify.

In the end, Mr. Obama disqualified all four opponents -- including the incumbent state senator, Alice Palmer, and three minor candidates. Ms. Palmer, a former ally of Mr. Obama, had gathered 1,580 signatures, more than twice the 757 required to appear on the ballot. A minor, perennial candidate had gathered 1,899 signatures, suggesting the Obama team invested much time working even against him.

The act of throwing an incumbent off the ballot in such a fashion does not fit neatly into the narrative of a public-spirited reformer who seeks to make people less cynical about politics.

But Mr. Obama's offenses against the idea of a "new politics" are many, and go well beyond hardball election tactics. It is telling that, when asked at the Saddleback Forum last weekend to name an instance in which he had worked against his own party or his own political interests, he didn't have a good answer. He claimed to have worked with his current opponent, John McCain, on ethics reform. In fact, no such thing happened. The two men had agreed to work together, for all of one day, in February 2006, and then promptly had a well-documented falling-out. They even exchanged angry letters over this incident.

The most dramatic examples of Mr. Obama's commitment to old-style politics are his repeated endorsements of Chicago's machine politicians, which came in opposition to what people of all ideological stripes viewed as the common good.

In the 2006 election, reformers from both parties attempted to end the corruption in Chicago's Cook County government. They probably would have succeeded, too, had Mr. Obama taken their side. Liberals and conservatives came together and nearly ousted Cook County Board President John Stroger, the machine boss whom court papers credibly accuse of illegally using the county payroll to maintain his own standing army of political cronies, contributors and campaigners.

The since-deceased Stroger's self-serving mismanagement of county government is still the subject of federal investigations and arbitration claims. Stroger was known for trying repeatedly to raise taxes to fund his political machine, even as basic government services were neglected in favor of high-paying county jobs for his political soldiers.

When liberals and conservatives worked together to clean up Cook County's government, they were displaying precisely the postpartisan interest in the common good that Mr. Obama extols today. And Mr. Obama, by working against them, helped keep Chicago politics dirty. He refused to endorse the progressive reformer, Forrest Claypool, who came within seven points of defeating Stroger in the primary.

After the primary, when Stroger's son Todd replaced him on the ballot under controversial circumstances, a good-government Republican named Tony Peraica attracted the same kind of bipartisan support from reformers in the November election. But Mr. Obama endorsed the young heir to the machine, calling him -- to the absolute horror of Chicago liberals -- a "good, progressive Democrat."

Mayor Richard M. Daley -- who would receive Mr. Obama's endorsement in 2007 shortly after several of his top aides and appointees had received prison sentences for their corrupt operation of Chicago's city government -- was invested in the Stroger machine's survival. So was every alderman and county commissioner who uses the county payroll to support political hangers-on. So was Mr. Obama's friend and donor, Tony Rezko, who is now in federal prison awaiting sentencing after being convicted in June of 16 felony corruption charges. Rezko had served as John Stroger's finance chairman and raised $150,000 for him (Stroger put Rezko's wife on the county payroll).

Mr. Obama has never stood up against Chicago's corruption problem because his donors and allies are Chicago's corruption problem.

Mr. Obama is not the reformer he now claims to be. The real man is the one they know in Chicago -- the one who won his first election by depriving voters of a choice.

Sorry for long cut-and-paste, but to me it was worth it. I don't take much stock in Jerome Corsi because he's a fringie and he has credibility problems, but David Freddoso is legit.

There's another issue coming down the pike, and Timmy raised it in a previous diary. However, his post was too oblique for my taste. The underlying issue is Obama's longtime association with political extremists, particularly a domestic terrorist and political radical like Bill Ayers. Stanley Kurtz was stonewalled in his investigation, and the current question is how long will this obstruction last? Given Obama's political smartness, it shouldn't last long. Why? Because this is the SF180 of 2008, and trying to keep unpleasant facts under wraps is doomed to fail. Just ask the two Johns, Kerry and Edwards. The facts in the documents held by the Annenberg Challenge may be politically unpleasant, and the American people won't like a presidential candidate who was buddy-buddy with an unrepentant domestic terrorist who sought the violent overthrow of the U.S. government. The American people don't like people who disrespect our flag, like he did here:

Yesterday, the McCain campaign threw down the gauntlet, so the Obama-Ayers relationship should get more media play:

"Barack Obama’s ad is ridiculous. Because of John McCain, corruption was exposed and people like Jack Abramoff went to jail.

"However, if Barack Obama wants to have a discussion about truly questionable associations, let’s start with his relationship with the unrepentant terrorist William Ayers, at whose home Obama’s political career was reportedly launched. Mr. Ayers was a leader of the Weather Underground, a terrorist group responsible for countless bombings against targets including the U.S. Capitol, the Pentagon and numerous police stations, courthouses and banks. In recent years, Mr. Ayers has stated, 'I don’t regret setting bombs … I feel we didn’t do enough.'

"The question now is, will Barack Obama immediately call on the University of Illinois to release all of the records they are currently withholding to shed further light on Senator Obama’s relationship with this unrepentant terrorist?" --McCain spokesman Brian Rogers

These questions are going to be raised in the coming weeks, and Ed Morrissey explains why:

Had Ayers actually apologized for his radical terrorism as a member of the Weather Underground, Daley’s lament would make sense. In fact, though, Ayers has repeatedly refused to apologize for his bombings and his terrorist actions, nor has his wife Bernardine Dohrn repented of her connections to bombings, thefts, and murder. To this day, they still speak publicly about the need to overthrow the capitalist system of the United States and call America a "monster".

They’re friends. So what? Well, most Americans don’t have friends who plotted to bomb the Pentagon, or assisted radicals in robberies that resulted in murder. Not only did Barack Obama make these people his friends, he worked closely with them on two separate projects, the Woods Foundation — and that pesky Chicago Annenberg Challenge that UIC, a public institution, ran. These were voluntary associations, not a case of both being hired by a corporate manager and forced to work together. In fact, Obama chose to work for Ayers at the CAC.

There's another reason, at least for me. I'm skeptical that Obama is the aisle-crossing moderate Democrat that he is packaging himself to be. I believe his political is much further to the left, too far left for millions of Americans, and an examination of his record and his associations is a way to get a better read of what his real political philosophy is. Obama chose to align himself with an unrepentant domestic terrorist for years, just like he chose to be a decades-long member of a church whose pastor is a political whackjob.

We'll see if the unsanitized Annenberg records get released. In the meantime, the questions will continue. Tom Maguire has been gnawing on this as well as anyone, and he has entries here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here, and that's just in the last couple of weeks.
--

"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
The Problem With Shouting 'Ayers' In A Crowded McCain House (#111867)
by Harley

Is that there's just so darn many of them. Which tends to dilute the impact.

--

To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard

ah... (#111651)
by Username

Hmmm (#111551)
by Spin Doctor

In 2000, Republicans and the SCOTUS were trumpeting that the election laws were sacrosanct and required strict adherence. Cut to 2008 and the very same Republicans are criticizing a Democrat for adhering to the letter of the law. Lewis Carroll must be chuckling somewhere.

--

Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. -Mark Twain

If I remember correctly, in 2000 you wanted the election laws (#111738)
by Timmy the Wonder Dog

to be fluid. Have you changed your mind?

--

"Making sure your tires are properly inflated, simple thing, but we could save all the oil that they're talking about getting off drilling, if everybody was just inflating their tires and getting regular tune-ups. You could actually save just as much." Ob

Just followed (#111740)
by Spartacvs

The USSC should never have stepped in to usurp the Florida legislature's prerogative. It was a political act pure and simple and a stain on the courts record.

--

GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.

Criticizing? (#111598)
by Bird Dog

Nope. Just calling it as I see it. Obama can do whatever he wants within the law, even lawyering his way to a victory. A person might even call that cynical.

--

"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton

But Never Forget (#111606)
by Harley

Every time a Republican complains about someone 'lawyering their way to victory' an Angel's head explodes, Florida sinks into the sea, and the Supreme Court soils their robes.

--

To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard

Wish I could see that on cable, (#111635)
by Bird Dog

though I'd pass on the soiling their robes part [shuddering at the image of Ruth Bader Ginsburg soiling herself]. GOPers weren't the only folks busy lawyering in Florida 2000. I seem to recall Al Gore initiating some legal maneuvers, one of them being the disenfranchisement of overseas military voters.

--

"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton

Another GOP talking point (#111638)
by HankP

he just wanted their ballots to be treated like everyone else's.

--

I blame it all on the Internet

'Fraid not (#111644)
by Bird Dog

Gore said he wanted all the ballots counted, then he deployed a team of lawyers to disqualify overseas military ballots. That is a simple historical fact.

--

"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton

That's a lie (#111657)
by HankP

they challenged ballots that didn't meet the state requirements for absentee ballots - no signature, no postmark, etc. Don't try to wave the flag on this one, or hide behind the military (the Republicans favorite prop until it comes time to take care of them or they disagree with Republican policy). Is this another example of "lawyering your way to victory" by following the law?

--

I blame it all on the Internet

It's a fact (#111851)
by Bird Dog

The original point was that Gore was trying lawyer his way to victory in Florida, and that's exactly what Gore and his team of lawyers did when it came to overseas military ballots. Kinda like what Obama did in '96. Oh, and please show me where I was trying "wave the flag". Sheesh.

--

"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton

What a weasel (#111876)
by stillnotking

The Bush team, of course, didn't employ any lawyers.

--

The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.

Didn't say they didn't (#111931)
by Bird Dog

And it takes nothing away from my original point.

--

"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton

Your original point (#111932)
by athenas owl

implied, to me anyway, that it was only Gore who lawyered up when in fact it was both sides.

Hope you don't take that as an insult, because it's not.

So the GOP tactics (#111646)
by athenas owl

to get overseas ballots disqualified in counties that Gore won, asking that elections laws be waived in counties that Bush won so that the overseas ballots in THOSE counties would be counted...what was that about?

That, too, is "simple, historical fact"...

Also don't forget.. (#111612)
by athenas owl

The "Brooks Brothers Riot".

Nor all those who didn't riot (#111619)
by Spartacvs

even though the State of Florida disenfranchised them under the direction of Republican operatives like this guy. No shame.

--

GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.

I doubt it (#111535)
by Blue Neponset

Those "stories" will get big play on the Hannity/Rush shows, but the EmmEssEmm won't touch them unless Obama starts to pull away from McCain in a big way. Even then, the press will probably find something more juicy to report on. These stories are boring.

--

But she's a queen, and such are queens
that your laughter is sucked in their brains. -D. Bowie

Coverups are never boring. (#111542)
by tomsyl

They have a bad habit of becoming bigger news than whatever's being covered up. If this turns out to be one, it will be fun for all.

--

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

What cover up? (#111549)
by Blue Neponset

There was nothing to cover up in the first story.

The second story is guilt by association. Unless there is more to the story it is standard Right wing radio fodder.

--

But she's a queen, and such are queens
that your laughter is sucked in their brains. -D. Bowie

"Unless" is the key word (#111560)
by tomsyl

and the roadblocks thrown in front of Kurtz by Obamafans are either reflexive or purposeful. If the latter, we'll find out at some point before the election why they thought the records would hurt the candidate.

Calling the story "right wing radio fodder" is premature at this point; you seem to recognize that.

--

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

I recognize nothing (#111603)
by Blue Neponset

This is "right wing radio fodder".

Unless a completely different story emerges from the one presented in this diary, the only people who will hear about this will be Rush Limbaugh listeners. I wouldn't let that discourage you though. You guys should spend a lot of time, effort and money on searching for the truth about Obama's weather underground past.

--

But she's a queen, and such are queens
that your laughter is sucked in their brains. -D. Bowie

I'm going with your post's title. (#111634)
by tomsyl

Your sig is hilarious, too.

--

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

Short answer: yes. The Ayers story, and Obama's attempts (#111529)
by tomsyl

to gloss over the connection, will, ah, blow up in the candidate's face. Just like those hilariously defective bombs Ayers and his idiot yuppie friends used to try to make.

Keep on the story, please. The more Chicago political hacks and college admins try to block access to the financial records, the better you know this will turn out to be. The actual use of the funds will make the "I'm going to support the school system in Nairobi - Not" (sorry catchy) story look like a mere appetizer for the feast to come.

--

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

ZOMG!!! (#111523)
by HankP

Obama followed the law in challenging petition signatures and refuses to cooperate with a hostile journalist!! He actually served on the board of a non-profit with a guy who was a radical - in the 60s!!

Whatever will we tell the children!!

--

I blame it all on the Internet

Keep whistling, my friend. (#111531)
by tomsyl

This is a big, long graveyard.

--

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

It could be (#111546)
by HankP

for lunatics like the NRO. If you take their stuff seriously - actually, if you can read their stuff without laughing - you're a better man than I.

--

I blame it all on the Internet

That's a pretty broad "them" (#111561)
by tomsyl

It depends to me on who you are talking about. I don't read them, but then I'm not generally in the mood to read political blogs. (I like the forvm because it is completly nonpolitical.)

But again, laughing off a story that might produce actual facts and records based merely on the source (first it was Regnery, now NRO that's being laughed at) can sometimes result in words being eaten down the road. If the story is as big a joke as you say, why not hold the laughter a bit until it plays out?

--

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

What Nothing From Jerome Corsi? (#111571)
by Harley

You guys are slippin'.

--

To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard

Pathetically weak, particularly coming from you. (#111574)
by tomsyl

If that's really the best you can come up with, you really should go back to the tic-tac-toe crosses on your diary and fix the gaffes.

--

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

How's the Boston Globe slumlord exposé (#111583)
by Spartacvs

coming along Tomsyl?

http://theforvm.org/diary/tomsyl/pieces-obamas-record-chicago-begin-emer...

Well wherever it went I think this Regnery/NRO hackery is destined to follow.

--

GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.

Heh. nt (#111588)
by Harley

--

To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard

Thanks for the reminder, Sparti. (#111587)
by tomsyl

I'll follow up and report back to you ASAP.

UPDATE: Back in a flash with the cash or the stash. The Trib's nosing around it. More soon and thanks for the reminder.

--

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

Keep us updated (#111589)
by Spartacvs

on how Saddam's WMD are fairing in Canada while you're at it.

--

GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.

This is getting better and better. (#111594)
by tomsyl

More please.

--

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

First... (#111582)
by Harley

..I only play tic tac toe on my iPhone with Tess. Or Connect-4. She's a wicked Connect-4 player. Second, your humorless response fits nicely with McCain's first bad day in a while. I guess the houses thing stings more than I thought. That I'm not willing to help you get over it by getting excited about the musty Ayers smear is not my fault. Tho' it's fun watching you shout at everybody -- grave yard! pathetic! desperate! coverup! -- if only to help the Senior Senator thru this difficult period. Where he tries to figure out how many homes Cindy bought him.

Guess which tale is more easily digested by the voting public? Guess which tale relates more directly to the issue they care most about? (Hint: the issue they care most about is not the dreaded Weathermen.)

--

To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard

Talk about humorless responses . . . (#111590)
by tomsyl

you sound stung, but you still have to read threads first before you rail about them. For one, I've already said this ain't about the Weatherpeople. Second, trying to cast this as McCain support from a non-McCain supporter merits only a golf clap. And the trifecta: arguing that this is a triviality intended to distract from the earthshaking revelations about Mcaain's homes. I knew you could do it!

--

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

Super Cool Rhetorical Device (#111593)
by Harley

Take my criticism and comments and simply turn it back at me. Using the same words. It's easy, requires little work, and, well, it's easy.

I'd suggest simply saying "I Know You Are But What Am I?" in the future. We could even reduce it to an acronym --

IKYABWAI!!

Carry on.

--

To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard

I am always grimly amused to see Repubs talk about voting (#111602)
by BlaiseP

When they're busily throwing everyone off voter rolls.

Barack Obama has sharp elbows. He has to, in Cook County Illinois. He caught his opponents napping and gave them a body slam. Something tells me he's going to give the Republicans a tremendous body slam, as he has with every opponent he's faced. A whole lot of Illinois politicians found out the hard way just how tough he plays.

Karl Rove ain't got nothing on Obama. Here's how this will go, if his Senate campaign was any guide to the matter. He demolished his competition before they ever really got started, and don't say there weren't viable candidates. The Republicans badly misplayed their hand, putting Alan Keyes up against him. The Republicans are just awkward when it comes to black people: blacks haven't forgotten the Dixiecrats sudden conversion to Republicanism.

Obama will play this Change song louder and stronger. He's got to make people afraid of McCain, and I think he will. People play games with pollsters, but when they get into the voting booth, they vote their pocketbooks and they vote their sphincters. I don't think McCain won't survive that test.

How about trying "your mother wears army boots"? (#111595)
by tomsyl

Then you can say you coined the phrase. Meanwhile, I stoop to conquer.

--

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

Everything I learned about restraint (#111565)
by HankP

I learned from you.

--

I blame it all on the Internet

That will come back to haunt you, I promise. (#111575)
by tomsyl

And who would know better than your teacher?

--

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

If I can work out a way (#111579)
by HankP

to visit Hawaii this fall, I may be able to repay you in person.

--

I blame it all on the Internet

That would be great - really. (#111591)
by tomsyl

-

--

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

Sadly, No... (#111547)
by athenas owl

The NRO is a rich source for continuing hilarity for them.

I wish I could find the article where WFB came down from his lofty perch a few years ago and laid into the kindergarten antics there. I'll look. I used to have it bookmarked but lost it.

A more intelligent discussion from a blogger on the right is here:

http://volokh.com/posts/1208495556.shtml

Volokh is good, but your link is dated. (#111563)
by tomsyl

Each side has speculated about the activities of the foundation when Ayers and Obama were both involved; now NRO wants to review the actual records relating to that time period. Do you have a fundamental problem with that? the people holding the records seems to; unfortunately for them, it was operating under a tax exemption.

--

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

What do you think it actually say about Obama, Tomsyl? (#111537)
by Wagster

Do you think he secretly harbors a Weather Underground agenda?

Do you think you should never associate with people that you disagree with?

Or is this just a furtive way of signaling "scary and black"?

--

More Wagster!

So this is the way it's gonna be. (#111645)
by vinteuil

*any* questioning of O-BA-MA's radical associations and policy positions will be met with accusations of racism.

I simply can't imagine a tactic that is more certain to fail.

--

God help the while, a bad world I say.

Policy Positions? (#111682)
by Harley

How'd that sneak in there?

--

To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard

Three words, Harley. (#111689)
by vinteuil

Born. Alive. Act.

What an utter, f***ing catastrophe.

--

God help the while, a bad world I say.

Setting Aside the Enormous Amount of Stupidity.... (#111699)
by Harley

...Required to put any stock in that line of attack*. (And I'm assuming you don't.) That still doesn't answer my question re folks suggesting attacks on Obama's 'policies' are answered with charges of racism. That seems like overheated hothouse flower rhetoric to me.

*This line is spearheaded by gibbering moron Jill Stanek, darling of the pro-life movement, famous for erecting billboards in Tanzania that read, "Faithful Condom Users Die."

--

To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard

Gee, Harley... (#111720)
by vinteuil

...*that* certainly got your attention!

But you might want to save your venom for some other forum where somebody might actually care about this as something other than a campaign issue.

--

God help the while, a bad world I say.

Uhoh, here we go (#111694)
by brendanm98

At least you've read all the primary material from the original votes and deliberations and aren't working off those dishonest Redstate/Carpenter/Stanek distortions, right?

--

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

Oh, pick me, teacher! Pick me! (#111732)
by tomsyl

Not my fight, but the Illinois act in question copied this Federal BAIPA language:

Public Law 107-207
U.S. Code
Title 1, Chapter 1: Rules of Construction
Section 8.

''Person'', ''human being'', ''child'', and ''individual'' as including born-alive infant

(a) In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, or of any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various administrative bureaus and agencies of the United States, the words ''person'', ''human being'', ''child'', and ''individual'', shall include every infant member of the species homo sapiens who is born alive at any stage of development.

(b) As used in this section, the term ''born alive'', with respect to a member of the species homo sapiens, means the complete expulsion or extraction from his or her mother of that member, at any stage of development, who after such expulsion or extraction breathes or has a beating heart, pulsation of the umbilical cord, or definite movement of voluntary muscles, regardless of whether the umbilical cord has been cut, and regardless of whether the expulsion or extraction occurs as a result of natural or induced labor, cesarean section, or induced abortion.

(c) Nothing in this section shall be construed to affirm, deny, expand, or contract any legal status or legal right applicable to any member of the species homo sapiens at any point prior to being ''born alive'' as defined in this section.

Abortion's not my fight, but I think anyone can see where that definitional language is intended to lead. A reasonable place to start, anyway.

Am I misremembering, or did this come up in the HRC campaign days?

--

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

Sorry tomsyl (#111742)
by brendanm98

but there's a lot of background here that I don't have the time or inclination to go into right now.

--

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

OK with me. (#111750)
by tomsyl

When I said abortion wasn't my fight, I meant it. I probably won't know enough on the subject to discuss it anyway - just wanted to get the contentious language out there, which even I understand.

--

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

Perhaps you won't think so, but a serious question... (#111746)
by Macallan

Why didn't he just vote "present". If you're going take a 'avoid contentious issues' path through the Illinois State House why pick this one to actually register taking a side?

I can think of several reasons, but I can't think of one that plays well with anyone but the NARAL extreme.

--

“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”

I dunno (#111758)
by brendanm98

There were multiple bills with multiple votes and he voted mostly no but sometimes present.

--

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

Oh, brendan. (#111705)
by vinteuil

Believe it or not, there are people in the world who actually care, very strongly, about stuff like this.

Not one of those people will be studying "the primary material from the original votes and deliberations." Nor will they be "working off those dishonest Redstate/Carpenter/Stanek distortions."

They won't feel that they need to. They will think that it's all pretty clear.

--

God help the while, a bad world I say.

Heh, And Happily Ignorant to Boot (#111716)
by Harley

After all, what's better than having your own rancid prejudices confirmed? It's like Christmas in July!

--

To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard

KABOOM! (#111794)
by Sulla

That was every irony meter within a 50 mile radius of you exploding.

--

"That Sam-I-am! That Sam-I-am! I do not like that Sam-I-am!"- Dr. Seuss

Sooo (#111713)
by HankP

how would you suggest persuading people who are ignorant of the facts and "won't feel they need to" learn anything about an issue? Sounds like the kind of people who wouldn't have voted for Obama anyway.

--

I blame it all on the Internet

How, Hank? (#111723)
by vinteuil

Dunno. It's above my pay grade.

--

God help the while, a bad world I say.

Hey, what happened to the picture? nt (#111726)
by HankP

--

I blame it all on the Internet

If they care very strongly about this (#111712)
by brendanm98

then why would they not read the primary material?

I'm sure this is not news to you, but sometimes bills aren't actually put forward with the intention of achieving their sponsors' claimed objective. It's still pretty clear what's going on, of course, but there are those who see what they want to see.

Do you suppose there are a lot of people out there stupid enough to genuinely believe that Obama supports infanticide?

--

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

brendan, I'd really suggest... (#111731)
by vinteuil

...that you grit your teeth and try following the discussion of this issue at one or more mainstream conservative sites, just to find out what the enemy is *really* thinking.

You might find National Review Online's blog "The Corner" helpful.

--

God help the while, a bad world I say.

Not helpful so far (#111796)
by brendanm98

Looks about the same as Redstate, actually.

Did you have specific posts in mind?

May I ask if you are fully familiar with the language of Casey, by the way? Because a lot of the commentary on this seems to come from people who either aren't, or are deliberately ignoring that relevance.

--

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

Thanks for the suggestion (#111737)
by brendanm98

(Naturally I don't consider conservatives the enemy, but I realize you're just using a figure of speech.)

I actually think I'm pretty caught up on this one, but I'll check out the Corner over the weekend...

--

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

Heh (#111733)
by Harley

You said 'The Corner'...and 'thinking.'

--

To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard

and "mainstream" (#111736)
by HankP

although sadly that may be true nowadays.

--

I blame it all on the Internet

Harley, HankP... (#111982)
by vinteuil

...all I can say is that you both say so as shouldn't.

--

God help the while, a bad world I say.

Vinteuil... (#112005)
by Harley

...all I can say is that you say couldn't so how?

--

To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard

???? nt (#112003)
by HankP

--

I blame it all on the Internet

The "scary and black" race card is inappropriate, (#111541)
by tomsyl

because it doesn't have the slightest thing to do with anything here. Frankly, it smacks to me of desperation, wags, and it's too soon for Obama fans to enter that phase. There may be a time where that becomes the only possible response to damaging information, but we aren't there yet.

To answer the legit part of your post, no, I don't think this implies an Obama/Weatherman connection at all, and I'm virtually certain none exists. I see two issues: the use of the Annenberg funds, which will tell us a lot about Obama's educational and political priorities at a time when he didn't realize anyone would be looking, and the secondary issue of whether Obama has fibbed as part of his effort to distance himself from Ayers.

If Kurtz is right about an attempted coverup, the plot will thicken. Too soon to tell about that one, but my guess is that there's something there that's potentially damaging enough for Obama's allies to try to hide it. Which, as it always does, will just make people dig harder and deeper.

--

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

Regenery? (#111517)
by Harley

Jesus, Charles. Aren't there any Freeper Threads to quote?

--

To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard

Kurtz works for National Review, not Regnery (#111533)
by tomsyl

Yuck it up while you still can. The first stage of candidate denial is ridiculing the sources; that's followed by the "true, but insignificant" phase and the "effing Republican Smear Machine" phase; sometimes the sufferer enters both of those at once. But the good news: at the end of the long and painful road, there's drinking.

--

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

I hate politics (#111505)
by brendanm98

What did the Woods Foundation do, BD? What about the Annenberg Challenge?

--

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

Me, too (#111850)
by Bird Dog

Actually, I hate dirty and dishonest politics. To answer your question, to find out what they do (or did)--and by extension, Obama--we should be able to have access to their records, kind of like what Kurtz was trying to do before he got stonewalled.

--

"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton

Gosh, and here I thought Kurtz (#111890)
by brendanm98

was trying to dig up dirt on Obama.

BD, we know (broadly) what WF and CAC did/do. The point is that supporting those activities has nothing whatsoever to do with supporting terrorism.

Would it be fair for me to link you with controversial content posted by a Redstate editor at their personal blog long before they joined Redstate? If I ask, do you think Redstate will make their full database available to me so I can search it? Because, you know, I'm interested in the conservative online movement and stuff...

--

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

Not sure about your comparison (#111930)
by Bird Dog

The scrutiny into Annenberg pertains directly to Obama's work experience and his political philosophy. Since no one at Redstate is running for president, your analogy makes no sense.

--

"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton

Come now (#111935)
by brendanm98

The scrutiny into Annenberg pertains directly to Obama's work experience and his political philosophy.

Then why did you say in your diary that The underlying issue is Obama's longtime association with political extremists, particularly a domestic terrorist and political radical like Bill Ayers.

My analogy illustrates the fallacy of guilt-by-association smears, a point that ought to be independent of whether or not someone is running for president but in the current political climate is sadly not.

--

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

There was also... (#111954)
by Bird Dog

...this: "I'm skeptical that Obama is the aisle-crossing moderate Democrat that he is packaging himself to be. I believe his political is much further to the left, too far left for millions of Americans, and an examination of his record and his associations is a way to get a better read of what his real political philosophy is."

Removing the stonewall will help clear the air on where he stands. His lontime associations with political extremists and with an unrepentant domestic terrorist raise questions about his real political philosophy. If McCain had a longtime association with Eric Rudolph and served on several boards with the guy, don't you think it reasonable that McCain be put under more scrutiny for it?

--

"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton

Of course Obama is left of center, and he'd better stay that way (#111956)
by BlaiseP

Anyone who gets into the No Man's Land of centrism will be sniped at by both sides. Campaign from either the right or left, not from the center, or you'll end up like that verse in Revelations 1: I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

Remember, the "center" has moved... (#111957)
by athenas owl

In my lifetime, dragged further to the right. I was a Republican voter in my first presidential election (Ford)...I really haven't changed that much, but the center sure moved to the right of me. I watched my guys Packwood (yeah, that was self-inflicted) and Hatfield marginalised by the move to the hard right.

I doubt that Tom McCall would even be allowed in the party now.

These kind of GOP members are called RINOs now...even though they were here first.

I question how far the center has moved. (#111962)
by BlaiseP

One interesting thing about Conservatives: here's a story about my Dad, also my brother. Neither could be categorized as computer people, and both despised my politics. But both would call me up about computer issues. I'd drive down there, take a look at their antique machines and say "this machine won't run your software effectively, you need a new machine." They'd both huff and say they could put up with how slow it ran, but a few months later, they'd get a new machine, make me come down and reinstall the software. They'd always get the lowest RAM package they could, so I'd just go down to the store after installing things, come back to the house and max out the memory in their boxes, simply to forestall them complaining about speed anymore.

Same with their politics. I'd predict something awful, they'd huff and puff and say I was just a damned old Liberal and why couldn't I go back to being a Republican like in the good old days. Then a few years later, they'd act as if they hadn't changed their positions on anything, even though they were now accepting everything I'd predicted. They'd changed their minds, but very slowly, and they'd act as if they'd always thought that way.

So is the center moving, or are the Conservatives moving slowly leftward?

Rudolph (#111955)
by athenas owl

Is in prison for the rest of his life. For whatever reason (and part of that is the government's own misbehaviour) the AMERICAN justice system did not do this to Ayers who then rejoined American society.

Perhaps Rudolph if something were to occur where he would get out of prison and then chose to peacefully reintergrate...well who knows...

I think a better comparison would be if McCain had associations with a..let's just say for fun..mafia crime family father who lived in Arizona.

The Woods foundation funds ACORN (#111683)
by tomsyl

among other things. You'll remember them as the crack-for-votes outfit that is so crooked even the NY Times has taken notice. If the WF money Obama oversaw was supposed to go to improving Chicago schools and instead he and Ayers gave it to a bunch of urban activist a-holes, things could get ugly.

--

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

What do you mean, supposed to go? (#111692)
by brendanm98

It's a foundation with a board that decides how to allocate the fund.

Presumably you're not suggesting Obama supports "crack-for-votes" and I know you know that ACORN is an international group with many neighborhood chapters that does far more than just voting registration.

--

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

"Supposed to go" as in earmarked for. (#111703)
by tomsyl

The story's just getting legs, but that's one of the roads Kurtz may be going down according to an interview I heard of him yesterday. Like I said, we'll see what happens. If Obama and Ayers gave big bucks to ACORN, sparks will fly and a good time will be had by all us political popcorn munchers.

ACORN has been involved in more crookery than any other ten advocate groups combined. And the $1 million stolen by the group's founder's brother had nothing to do with voter registration AFAIK. Whatever your views on the group's pluses, I'm certain that Obama doesn't want to find himself in the position of defending giving $$$ to ACORN.

--

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

I'm sorry but I'm not following (#111707)
by brendanm98

Earmarked by whom?

Are you saying Obama and Ayers slipped ACORN WF $$ under the table against the funding plan agreed upon by the board they were on?

--

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

First, I'm not stating facts, just passing on rumors. (#111715)
by tomsyl

I haven't bought into the story at this point, but Kurtz's claim yesterday was that millions of dollars in Annenberg funds had been made available and earmarked for improvements to Chicago's public schools, and he thinks the records he's trying to get will show that the money went to liberal activist groups instead. Again, I'm just explaining why I say this could become a big issue, not that anything concrete's been established. And if it turns out that Obama sent millions to ACORN, he's going to take hits for having anything to do with ACORN regardless. There's a stench to that organization that no presidential candidate wants to be tainted by.

--

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

Fair enough (#111717)
by brendanm98

I guess we'll wait and see. I'm sure with enough of a fuss the records will be made available.

--

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

Anything published by Regnery is ipso facto suspect (#111499)
by Bill White

I am disappointed in you, Bird Dog.

As John K Wilson puts it:

David Freddoso's new book, The Case Against Barack Obama: The Unlikely Rise and Unexamined Agenda of the Media's Favorite Candidate is a badly written hatchet job, full of errors and distortions and smears. The author, who works for the right-wing National Review and published his book with Regnery (which printed Unfit for Command, one of the Swiftboating attacks on John Kerry in 2004), simply fails to prove his key assertions, preferring to rely upon a bunch of false attacks, McCarthyist-style denunciations of Obama's associations, and extreme conservative attacks on abortion rights, all of it padded with lengthy digressions on topics unrelated to Obama and his record.

John McCain and his minions are now trying to do to Barack Obama what Karl Rove did to John McCain in 2000.

Pity, since the 2000 version of John McCain would have made a much better President than George Bush.

--

Fence post turtles -- They don't get up there by themselves, some moron had to put 'em there.

So, (#111544)
by Bird Dog

the author of Barack Obama: This Improbable Quest didn't like an anti-Obama book. Color me unsurprised. Maybe Freddoso should do a book review of Wilson's book. Funny that you didn't include Wilson's link. Maybe because it's a dKos diary. I couldn't get past Wilson's statement that Freddoso lied about Obama's lack of experience.

--

"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton

How about National Review, which BD linked to in the diary? (#111539)
by tomsyl

Shrug this one off if you can.

--

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

This is cool (#111497)
by Kierkegaard

I've left an early comment on each of the last 5 diaries, so I've decided to just keep the chain going. Think of me as a kind of 'Welcome Wagon'!

I would say 'no', his past won't catch up with him. I think he's sinking like a stone in the polls for other reasons. Seems like every summer on leap years the great American public pulls this bait-and-switch on liberal Democrats. This year the name of the bait-and-switch is 'but I wouldn't mind if one married my daughter--really'.

If Hillary were being nominated it would be called 'but I think a woman can do anything a man can--honest'.

I don't know how spar viewed it... (#111784)
by Davinci

To me you can attack the comment without the person.. The Tone of this seems almost self congratory. I don't know if this is generational or what but the tone almost comes off as non-condeming enough... I read the whole thread and agree with MAC and not the mods or your hurt feelings... I can also see why you took what he wrote the way you did...

--

Ask courageous questions. Do not be satisfied with superficial answers. Be open to wonder and at the same time subject all claims to knowledge, without exception, to intense skeptical scrutiny. Be aware of human fallibility. Cherish your species and your

Non-condemning enough? (#111785)
by stillnotking

Interesting formulation there.

K is an avid s**t-stirrer, and more power to him.

--

The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.

Yes.. I read it as stating a fact without disavowing the IMHO (#111798)
by Davinci

underlying ugliness of it... Now stirring the pot is fine and I certainly have read K enough to not take it that way. I am really talking about tone.. I guess my issue is that their are a few posters that write so much better than I that I would think that Tone is understood... I really look at the comment as a response to the tone... I also as stated above understand how you could read the " far too comfortable with the inherent wrong "

"Think of me as a kind of 'Welcome Wagon'!

I would say 'no', his past won't catch up with him. I think he's sinking like a stone in the polls for other reasons. Seems like every summer on leap years the great American public pulls this bait-and-switch on liberal Democrats. This year the name of the bait-and-switch is 'but I wouldn't mind if one married my daughter--really'.

If Hillary were being nominated it would be called 'but I think a woman can do anything a man can--honest'."

Now it is tongue and cheek but if you look at it as a tone response to the post as I think it was suppose to be and look at how what I consider the ugliness of the view of racism as a static constant... Then I just disagree with most of the sub thread... Hey I was working and could not post more...

Maybe I am just thinking of how easy it is to miss communicate in this type of communication. Since I just went over a communication issue at the hospital on how an order was meant and how it was perceived... Mistakes all around.. In fact really no fault.. Just human imperfection... Not taking into account any other history or sub thread... I am not up on this being an ongoing issue etc... Irony and sarcasm are missed at times. Depending on the emotion of the topic or even personal experiences.. I agree with Trav on some of the issues with racism and understand how one's environment and up bring differ on how much impact this means.. I have seen some very harsh racism on