Gregg Williams has Issues, Friday Night Lights? Behold the Creation of Man Open Thread

brutusettu's picture

[url=]Refused - New Noise[/url] (featured in the movie version of [i]Friday Night Lights[/i]

[url=]Explosions in the Sky - Your Hand in Mine [/url]

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Don't forget how awful everything is!



Huge news if it works out

HankP's picture

'Universal' cancer vaccine developed



I blame it all on the Internet

*Scott Blinks*

M Scott Eiland's picture

That did *not* just happen.

*watches twice*

Yes--yes it did. Now the question is whether the adrenaline from that will blow up the rest of his round, or if he can hold that two shot lead.

. . .and Don Mattingly must be fired (bye Ned--don't let the door hit you in the @$$ on the way out!).

Louis took a left hook shot from Watson

brutusettu's picture

and Osthuizen went down for the count.

Tough Break, Man

M Scott Eiland's picture

You do something decent, and now people are (justifiably) wondering whether the world would be a better place if you had just kept walking. At least you have the comfort of knowing that even the likes of Jonathan Chait are disgusted with the vile little harpy:

The woman he saved, Laurie Penny, turns out to be one of those leftie-types who is so sanctimonious they make you want to vote Republican out of sheer spite. She objects to "being framed as the ditzy damsel in distress in this story." Then don't wander out into busy streets! Bernie Madoff probably objects to being framed as a Shylock figure. That could have been avoided by not swindling people.

For once, I am raising my glass to Mr. Chait.

. . .and Don Mattingly must be fired (bye Ned--don't let the door hit you in the @$$ on the way out!).

What in the hell are you people on about?


She does sound like a ditz, but her piece, if you'll read it, is about what it's like when a more or less normal person gets caught up in the endless 360 handjob machine of paparazzi culture in America. She's saying we Americans focus on stupid unimportant things (celebrities, celebrities' underwear) while completely ignoring important things (war, economy, political corruption, propaganda replacing the news). She's saying it's annoying to have your life turned into a "story" by people who think the Arab Spring is boring.


She couldn't be more right. Main problem with her observation is how banal it is.


To be fair, turn the mirror the other way and check out those Brits who get creamy (and I'm speaking about MoP's here) at the thought of bumping into Prince Harry, or who salivate over every detail of the life of Camilla Parker-Bowes. 


Silly disease. Americans happen to have it really bad, but nobody's immune.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

No offense, but...

Bernard Guerrero's picture

....why should I give a rat's #%% what this chick imagines is or is not important? I see no particular reason to give her hierarchy any weight.

Couldn't agree more.


Why are we talking about this Access Hollywood b-roll story?

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

Talk to Scott, he brought it up nt

HankP's picture


I blame it all on the Internet

It's always the same

HankP's picture

if anyone ever hints that the US isn't the greatest, bestest, most wonderful place that ever existed there's an immediate push back. Of course, the same people don't seem to realize what that defensiveness actually says about their feelings about the US.

I blame it all on the Internet

In This Case. . .

M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .a prominent instance of the pushback was from Jonathan Chait. Which should be a sign that the perpetrator had drifted a little deeper into the moonbat zone than is usually the case. Or maybe she's engaging in some of that "sublime experimentation involving both the refusal to abandon itself to time as dominant, while situating itself within the rhythm of time's fragmentation where the adventure of experience and self-determination begin" that I was unable to adequately mock the other night.

. . .and Don Mattingly must be fired (bye Ned--don't let the door hit you in the @$$ on the way out!).

You can try to use Chait as a shield

HankP's picture

but everyone here can see through it. He's far from some kind of infallible source, and his article shows the same kind of misunderstanding of facts that explains his support for the Iraq War.

I blame it all on the Internet

He Read What Everyone Else Read

M Scott Eiland's picture

And--whatever his other faults--he apparently has little patience with or desire to coddle self-important America-hating pseudo-intellectuals. Good for him.

. . .and Don Mattingly must be fired (bye Ned--don't let the door hit you in the @$$ on the way out!).

Obviously reading != understanding nt

HankP's picture


I blame it all on the Internet


M Scott Eiland's picture

So I've observed in the responses to my comment.

. . .and Don Mattingly must be fired (bye Ned--don't let the door hit you in the @$$ on the way out!).

I figured spite would make an appearance at some point nt

HankP's picture


I blame it all on the Internet


M Scott Eiland's picture

Ms. Penny is indeed a *spiteful* vile little harpy.

. . .and Don Mattingly must be fired (bye Ned--don't let the door hit you in the @$$ on the way out!).

And now... with Nazis!


Apparently, neo-Nazis are showing up in Sanford. With guns!

Except for one detail

Bird Dog's picture

No neo-Nazis showed up (link). The story was all based on what some goofball in Detroit said.

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Well that's boring


even if it does make me feel better about my country in general.

The Messenger Is Less Than Ideal. . .

M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .but one hopes that the governor is ready to call out the National Guard in case the final disposition of this case isn't to Sharpton & Company's liking:

. . .and Don Mattingly must be fired (bye Ned--don't let the door hit you in the @$$ on the way out!).

Praising with faint damns nt

HankP's picture


I blame it all on the Internet

I Don't Like Nazis

M Scott Eiland's picture

But if one of them stops another Reginald Denny incident in its tracks with a firearm, it will be a good thing, and it will be because the state of Florida wasn't doing its job.

. . .and Don Mattingly must be fired (bye Ned--don't let the door hit you in the @$$ on the way out!).

Here's some free advice

HankP's picture

if you ever find yourself writing "I don't like Nazis but ...", immediately erase what you've written and start over again.

I blame it all on the Internet

Thanks For Sharing

M Scott Eiland's picture

Oddly enough, I suspect the announced presence of armed individuals will deter any attempts to attack those neighborhoods in the course of rioting. If not, then I expect any shootings resulting to be investigated--preferably with more attention to the actual factual situation than has been the case in the Martin shooting.

. . .and Don Mattingly must be fired (bye Ned--don't let the door hit you in the @$$ on the way out!).

Seeing as how you and the neo Nazis are the only ones

HankP's picture

who keep talking about rioting, I'm not seeing how anything is being protected here. But please do carry on, this is absolutely fascinating.

I blame it all on the Internet

Then There Won't Be A Problem

M Scott Eiland's picture

And I suspect the local authorities--not being fans of Nazis either--will keep an eye on things. However, anyone who doesn't see potential Rodney King type risks here is kidding themselves, and the walkback of a lot of the false reports that helped pump this media storm up is making it increasingly likely that the original decision of the authorities is going to be affirmed, and that a lot of people will be very angry over it.

And again, Hank--comment, not the commenter. Not to mention that your comment is demonstrably false, as others have clearly mentioned the risk of rioting.

. . .and Don Mattingly must be fired (bye Ned--don't let the door hit you in the @$$ on the way out!).

Race riots generally need more "tinder"


than you've got in Sanford.  Yeah, the Martin thing's become a national cause celbre, but it takes a lot more to make a race riot than the buffoons calling themselves the New Black Panthers.



Hey Scott! How's your hole coming?


Let us know if you want to toss down a couple sandwiches, maybe a flashlight.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

Bookmarked For Later Reference -nt-

M Scott Eiland's picture


. . .and Don Mattingly must be fired (bye Ned--don't let the door hit you in the @$$ on the way out!).

All in Good fun! (I


,,,talking about race in america inherently dangerous substance.


Gotta watch Fast Five on HD...(and a 46" Sony Baveria if just about right for those that want to know)


Best Wishes, Traveller


HankP's picture

"Say hi to John Derbyshire for me".

I blame it all on the Internet

"At least it's an ethos." -nt-



"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

I didn't think...


...self-goodwinization was possible.


Your comment is the One.

This was clear enough to Larkin, whose patriotism rested on the notion that England was the worst place on earth with the possible exception of everywhere else.

So Neo-Nazis are patrolling the streets down in Florida,


and you're relieved to see it? I think maybe you might ought to run that through the common sense machine one more time.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

Call in some Bobby Green's

brutusettu's picture


Lot Of Heroes That Day

M Scott Eiland's picture

Takes a lot of nerve to run into an angry mob and save someone--it shouldn't have been necessary, though. The National Guard and the cops should have been on every street corner in LA ready for trouble--Pete Wilson, Tom Bradley, and Daryl Gates share responsibility for the lack of preparation and the losses incurred as a result.

. . .and Don Mattingly must be fired (bye Ned--don't let the door hit you in the @$$ on the way out!).

John Derbyshire

HankP's picture

shows the kind of sensitivity, open mindedness and all around inclusiveness that accounts for conservatives great success with minorities.


For those not familiar with him, he's previously done the same stellar job of appealing to women.

I blame it all on the Internet

And it was that sensitivity, open-mindedness...

Bird Dog's picture

and all around inclusiveness that caused NR to sack him.

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

That was pretty crazy.  It is


That was pretty crazy.  It is funny, though.  Aside from giving common sense advice about not hanging out in a crime ridden part of town or poking a group of aggressive young men, he seems to be responding to the knowledge that black people tell their children that white people are racist.  And he addresses his hurt feelings by - being racist.  Nice, very educated and erudite.  Deep thinker, this Derbyshire person.

National Review


just fired him.  So it appears that the "firewall" that divides Sailer, Murray, et al. from the mainstream Murdoch/NR right has held for the time being. 


I have to give NR credit for firing Sobran, Coulter, Derbyshire, etc. 


aireachail's picture

Now he has something else to have a talk with his kids about.

Guess his "amulet" friends didn't do the trick. -nt-



"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

But but but

HankP's picture

some of his trophy best friends are black!

I blame it all on the Internet

Apparently when he was on trial for his life


in Jerusalem, Adolf Eichman actually said that he wasn't an anti-Semite and that some of his best friends were Jews.

It's either helpful or unpleasant


that most newspapers and magazines have comment sections, because the result has basically been like turning over a rock when it comes to race in America.  There's simply no way to argue that America is post racial given the bilge that's appeared in any magazine or newspaper's comment section regarding the Martin case. 

Not To Mention. . .

M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .when public officials feel free to engage in racist comments without any expectation of consequences other than loud complaints and a half-@$$ed apology.

. . .and Don Mattingly must be fired (bye Ned--don't let the door hit you in the @$$ on the way out!).

So, are you saying there


So, are you saying there isn't an incredible amount of racist comments associate with Martin articles?  I can't tell since you link a completely unrelated story.  So, do you have an opinion or are you just throwing out a false equivalence because it irritates all the right people?  As I noted before, I think you are just throwing out some bile to get people to bite.  Any luck yet?

Oh, And Posting Rules

M Scott Eiland's picture

Comment, not the commenter.

. . .and Don Mattingly must be fired (bye Ned--don't let the door hit you in the @$$ on the way out!).




Vile Comments Come From All Political Viewpoints

M Scott Eiland's picture

I'm just pointing out that perhaps an actual public official throwing around racist comments is a bigger problem than anonymous commenters.

. . .and Don Mattingly must be fired (bye Ned--don't let the door hit you in the @$$ on the way out!).

"a bigger problem"  Snort.


"a bigger problem"  Snort.  Did he apologize?  Will he be damaged by his statement?  


Regardless of the above, the hidden racism of America is distinctly different than the comments of a washed up politician.  And arguably much more important and a "bigger problem".


Your point is nonsense but served its purpose, I suppose.

It's there

HankP's picture

but to draw conclusions on prevalence from anonymous comment sections is difficult. You just need a troll who's willing to post repeatedly under different names to make it look like there's more there than meets the eye. But the fact that the comments appear in such geographically dispersed sources does show that it's there.

I blame it all on the Internet

Meanwhile in New Orleans, the Danziger Bridge cops


are sentenced to some serious hard time...Robert Faucon gets 65 years for shooting unarmed mentally disabled Ronald Madison in the back with a shotgun, the longest sentence. Other officers immediately involved in the post-Katrina killings received between 30 and 40 years, while those involved in the cover up are looking at 5-15. 


Federal Judge Englehardt nonetheless called it "a sad day for New Orleans," and spent two hours in court detailing and criticizing elements of the government's case, which was largely built on the strength of plea-bargains that allowed many of the most culpable officers involved in the murders & subsequent coverup to practically walk.

For instance, Lt. Michael Lohman, Kaufman's supervisor and in Engelhardt's view the lead architect of the cover-up, received a four-year sentence. "The buck started and stopped with him," Engelhardt said of Lohman.


Meanwhile, Robert Barrios, Villavaso's partner, received a five-year sentence. Engelhardt called him "the biggest winner in the plea-bargain sweepstakes."


The government's reliance on cooperating witnesses who were looking to protect themselves made the judge very uncomfortable.


"Using liars to convict liars is no way to pursue justice," Engelhardt said.


Citing witnesses for perjury "at this trial would be like giving out speeding tickets at the Indy 500," he added.

The black community throughout the US says that police departments routinely harass and abuse them, and, frequently enough, gun them down with impunity. The FBI doesn't have statistics to back that claim.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

I don't like the plea bargains either

HankP's picture

but how else are you supposed to get convictions when facing the "blue wall of silence"?

I blame it all on the Internet

Holy racist time machine, Batman.


I was expecting to find the usual "that's what I'd say if I were a racist" switcheroo at the end, but no, the pontificating douche really seems to believe all of this stuff. This could have been written in Birmingham, 1963. I feel sorry for his kids. 


For added fun, an anonymous commenter on one of Derbyshire's links to "true science" support for his rant absolutely destroys the guy's math on the black-on-white murder rate (paragraph 8).


I also enjoyed this jewel of wisdom:

In that pool of forty million, there are nonetheless many intelligent and well-socialized blacks. (I’ll use IWSB as an ad hoc abbreviation.) You should consciously seek opportunities to make friends with IWSBs. In addition to the ordinary pleasures of friendship, you will gain an amulet against potentially career-destroying accusations of prejudice. 

There aren't enough amulets in the world, John.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes


Bernard Guerrero's picture

Did you actually read anonymous's post?  He destroys the original post in the sense of noting that the relative rate of black-on-white murder is not an order of magnitude higher than the white-on-black rate, but merely twice as high.  OTOH, he's noting it's twice as high.


In any case, the real issue is poor low-class folks, who (as long experience with them in Newark NJ and Newburgh NY proved to me) are dangerous regardless of the level of melanin in their skin. :^)


Edit: Serious question to Hank.  Your daughter's going away to school shortly.  Assume, for the sake of argument, that she ends up at a good school next to a fairly poor urban neighborhood.  There are plenty of those in the U.S.  What advice are you going to give her?

Hypothetical fails

HankP's picture

since the two finalists are Oregon State in Corvallis and University of Colorado in Boulder, two places that don't have a poor urban neighborhood within (dozens or hundreds of) miles. But the advice (which has already been given in abundance) will be the same no matter where she goes - if you're going to be in a poor area, dress down and don't flaunt expensive things, don't get drunk or stoned around people you don't know, if you're going out at night travel in at least a pair, etc. The same stuff I learned when I was growing up. It's certainly not going to be Derbyshire's "black savages" approach to humanity.

I blame it all on the Internet

Point being that Crazy Uncle's numbers were off


by an order of magnitude, and a murder rate that high (13x the white-on-black rate) would indeed suggest some kind of innate propensity for violence (or ongoing race war) above and beyond any socioeconomic factors. 


Meanwhile poor people are more likely to rob or assault you than rich people. Derbyshire is a world-class moron, and a dangerous one.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

Innate propensity of early 20th century Europeans

mmghosh's picture

for mindless violence is probably unsurpassed in the history of humanity - make that early-mid 20th century Europeans. Yet it all changed within 50 years. The "innate propensities to violence" seem to be, very much, relatively short term cultural and economic constructs.

freedom is a fundamental value that does not need to be justified in terms of some other value like efficiency

Well, a murder rate twice ase high....

Bernard Guerrero's picture not exactly a comfortable fact, is it?  Whenever we fly into Newark, I make a point of renting a car and driving north via McCarter Highway/ Rt 21.  And then I tell the girls to look around and NEVER end up in neighborhoods like that at night, particularly if alone.  Flat tire?  Drive on the rim and look for a cop.


(And truth be told, it looks better around there now than it did 20 years ago.  A lot of the burned-out buildings and crack houses have been torn down and replaced, and the Arts Center seems to have generated some traffic.  But I'm still not hanging out west of the Ironbound.)

I bet it correlates very well with poverty rates.


Gentleman's wager?


I'd tell my kids to be careful in poor neighborhoods too, and wouldn't feel bad about it for a second. What I would not do is try to convince them that melanin = crime.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

Nothing to wager against, I'd agree....

Bernard Guerrero's picture

....on the correlation.  Part of the trouble is, as a heuristic, Derbyshire isn't that far off because many if not most poor urban neighborhoods in the U.S. are going to be heavily black.


[quote]"If a friend calls you on the telephone and says they're lost on Martin Luther King Boulevard and they want to know what they should do, the best response is 'Run!" In other words, no matter where you live in America, if you are on Martin Luther King Boulevard, there's some violence going on."[/quote]- Chris Rock

But in the classic racist move he "naturalizes"


socioeconomic differences...effectively shutting socioeconomic solutions out of the discussion.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes


HankP's picture

he's a big proponent of The Bell Curve and he's said that humans have "evolved" so that whites and asians are smarter than blacks. So just your basic old school racism.

I blame it all on the Internet

Derb is... special


Among his other writings are his musings on fellatio (which the young people these days are apparently engaging in a lot of) and a most peculiar discussion of Lolita.


But he's got a peculiar niche--eccentric rambler who doesn't like black people.  The fact that either he or his online persona is so eccentric means that he can get away with a lot of stuff that other NR writers probably say behind closed doors but don't publish.  Basically he's got the weird uncle thing going on.

Be Sure to Read the Second Link...He IS the Crazy Uncle!...nt



talk of race in America is incomplete


I don't think there is much surprising about his "talk". But it is striking, and ironic considering he takes the time elsewhere to discuss women, that he makes no effort at distinguishing black men from black women. He just mentions "crowds of blacks" or "intelligent blacks" etc.

I believe Americans view black women and black men in  very different ways, and "a talk" purporting to educate a child on racial matters without mentioning the benefits to be gained by exploiting the dilligence and resourcefulness of the black women, and concentrating only on instilling fear of the vitality and propensity for violence of the black man, is not doing the child a service. I suspect John is born and raised in the UK and is ignorant of facts Americans take for granted. It was from Elizabeth Warren that I learned that since the 70's, the only sector of the working class in America to make gains are black women; everyone has lost ground, black men included, so these qualities of black women are no secret to corporate America, or anyone who runs a business and hires workers.

In short, any talk of race in America is incomplete without taking sexuality into account and of little value.

You will kill 10 of our men, and we will kill 1 of yours, and in the end it will be you who tire of it. - Ho Chi Minh

"Get all of these minorities out of my waterpark"

brutusettu's picture

[url=]Eric Cartman - Minorities in my waterpark[/url]

Possible NFL schedule leak


or possible hoax. I'm leaning toward hoax, why would the NFL put a Lions-Seahawks game in primetime but not the handshake-gate grudge match? Either way you can never have too many posts about football.

"We should not tie the hands of law enforcement in the effort to bring these terrorists to justice"- Leon E. Panetta

After last season

HankP's picture

why would you televise any Seahawk game outside the Seattle metro area?

I blame it all on the Internet

America is colorblind


Gallup Poll shows Americans split along racial lines in the Trayvon Martin shooting case. 73 percent of African Americans said shooter George Zimmerman would have been arrested if Martin had been white; only 35 percent of white Americans said so.

Well, heaven forbid someone


Well, heaven forbid someone mention race about this killing.  It tends to irritate the usual suspects, probably because it means bad political outcomes for them.  Better to pretend race and racial tensions don't exist.  It is...  more proper that way.

I don't believe in Zimmerman


What's a Latino doing with a Jewish name anyway.

"I don't want us to descend into a nation of bloggers." - Steve Jobs

Zimmerman is just another german name...


...where I am from.  Not exactly life altering news, but there it is.

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

A Rather. . .

M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .famous (or notorious) one, at that.

. . .and Don Mattingly must be fired (bye Ned--don't let the door hit you in the @$$ on the way out!).

A large number of Jews...


...emigrated to Latin America starting in the late 1800's but also after World War II. Roughly the same periods they came to the US.


I am not sure what his story is, but I am not surprised at all about the name. A quick Google shows some 400,000 Jews in Latin America.

This was clear enough to Larkin, whose patriotism rested on the notion that England was the worst place on earth with the possible exception of everywhere else.

My Dad


Had many Jewish friends in Lima. They were fellow masons.


Actually, I was just looking for an excuse to insert a gratuitous Lennon reference.

"I don't want us to descend into a nation of bloggers." - Steve Jobs

Hey Now

M Scott Eiland's picture

Don't let Juan Luis Pedro Felipo de Huevos Epstein hear you say that.

. . .and Don Mattingly must be fired (bye Ned--don't let the door hit you in the @$$ on the way out!).

Possibly, like my stepfather....

Bernard Guerrero's picture

....and Sammy Davis Junior, he's a Jewish Latino.

And the reason there are so many Spanish Jews

HankP's picture

is that Muslim Spain was one of the best places for Jews to live from the 8th to the 12th centuries. After more fundamentalist Muslims ruled before the Christians retook the peninsula things got worse, and of course Jews were expelled from Spain and Portugal in the late 1400s.

I blame it all on the Internet

There's one big difference between women and caterpillars

HankP's picture

women vote.

I blame it all on the Internet

Job report looked disappointing this month


and then, on looking more closely, it appears that what really crapped up March was retail:


Manufacturing: Up by 37k,

Service: Up by 89K

Professional/Business: Up by 31k


Construction and government were their usual slow leak at a loss of 7,000 total.


Retail, however, was the turd in the punchbowl, shedding 34,000 jobs in March.  Is this weirdness with seasonal adjustment?  Gas prices?  Or something else?



Perhaps consumers didn't lower their savings rate this month


I've been watching Personal Consumption Expenditures go up the past few months but mostly b/c the savings rate was going down, not b/c employees were taking home more pay to spend. That's obviously unsustainable and the savings rate I believe was below 4% in February. 


Menial wage increases and rising gas prices aren't a recipe for more job creation in the retail sector.


Perhaps this month's numbers are an abberation, but I still think Romney has a reasonable shot at winning the election. 

Part of it's gas.

Bernard Guerrero's picture

Though the retail sector hasn't been doing that poorly, really.

Will these #s cause Obama to ease up


on Iranian sanctions and stop having Hillary sabre-rattle?


He's never made the economy priority #1. I honestly don't understand that.

I don't either. There's no way the WH is so out


of touch that they don't understand that 12.3 million people unemployed translates into a lot of edgy voters.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

Not to be Conspiracy Minded, But....!




...this is weird.


Unless Obama made absolute promises to Netanyahu to keep up the sanctions and sabre rattling to stop him from an actual attack by Israel on Iran...


Obama's actions restricting the flow of oil from anywhere....just doesn't make any sense at all.





Seems straightforward.

Bernard Guerrero's picture

"Unless Obama made absolute promises to Netanyahu to keep up the sanctions and sabre rattling to stop him from an actual attack by Israel on Iran.."


Bibi: If that crazy %$#@&^&^% gets close to a bomb, I'm gonna toast him.


Barry: Cool your jets, we'll tighten the noose and see if he says 'uncle'.


Bibi: That'll be expensive, good thing you're footing the bill.


Barry: Cheaper than the alternative....

Read "I'm gonna toast him"


as "I'm gonna start a regional war my country can't possibly win on its own" and you can begin to estimate US concern.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

I'm not entirely sure about that.

Bernard Guerrero's picture

To some extent, massive escalation works in Israel's favor.  They still easily have the best trained and equipped main force in the region.  They do well in either tiny, well-controlled actions where the quality edge shows, or in large-scale "existential" combat where the ability to generate massive force becomes important.  Their failures in the recent past have all fallen in the middle ground of "colonial" wars, where they're trying to punish/control other players outside of their borders while playing by very limiting rules.  (This is, of course, the same problem all the developed states face.) 


I'd suggest it would be difficult to keep a small strike from escalating, but beyond a certain point it would allow them to do things that would be unthinkable when haggling over politics in Gaza or Lebanon.  And that's not just the nuke card, either.  Their danger zone is, I think, a strike that creates open conflict with Iran but that remains limited in scope to smaller-scale attacks by Iranian proxies.  That would cost Israel a great deal to defend against, still keeps them in the box of "limited war" and puts Iran in a good place politically as the side showing restraint.

Is Israel going to invade Iran and replace its government?


If they're unable to do that, then any action short of that is going to fall into your "limited war" category. I don't doubt Israel's ability to defend itself from attack, or to target Iranian weapons complexes. Beyond that, their ability to either defeat Iran militarily or to defend against a full scale guerilla war through proxies is very limited.


And the important thing from the US point of view is that ALL military conflicts Israel gets involved in are funded and supplied by us, and any wider conflicts will necessarily involve our forces as well. There's no such thing as going it on their own.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

Doesn't follow historically.

Bernard Guerrero's picture

All of their successful 20th century wars were large-scale main-force confrontations.  No attempt was made to change the governments of Egypt, Syria or Jordan, only to kill masses of their troops and make main-force military activity non-viable and expensive for said states.  The "colonial" phase can be seen in the attempt to miodify Lebanese politics by partial occupation (worked great for the French in the Rhineland) with the context of limited warfare.


Boiling it down, I'd say large-scale main-force combat is necessary to forcibly change a government, but that doesn't necessarily have to be the goal of large-scale main-force combat. (See also Gulf I, Highway out of Kuwait, etc)


(Hmmnn, just had a thought.  I'm moving this to the "pet theories" thread.)

Tracks with what I'm saying;


Israel isn't capable of main-force confrontation (invasion) against Iran, so they'll be forced into the limited conflict category where they have a distinctly bad track record. They can provoke Iran, but their ability to force changes to politics & policy within Iran is drastically limited, and almost entirely dependent on US intervention in any case.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

I find your lack of faith...

(#278218) the power of the AIPAC disturbing.

This was clear enough to Larkin, whose patriotism rested on the notion that England was the worst place on earth with the possible exception of everywhere else.