Monday Open Thread

Follow your dreams this week everyone:

 

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Must everything be about race?

(#277811)
mmghosh's picture

Exposed to massive Hunger Games marketing here just now, but I'm thinking - [url=http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/books/2012/03/hunger-games-and-trayvon-martin.html]give it a miss.[/url]
[quote]Adam says that the pivotal moment in the evolution of Hunger Games Tweets came on or around March 23rd, after he posted a tweet by someone named Alana Paul, a petite brunette who went by the handle @sw4q. Alana’s tweet was not the most offensive or nakedly racist of the bunch (that award could go to Cliff Kigar, who dropped the N-bomb, or to @GagasAlexander, who complained of “some ugly little girl with nappy…hair.”) but perhaps the most telling. “Awkward moment when Rue is some black girl and not the little blonde innocent girl you picture,” she wrote. She cc’ed a friend on the tweet, @EganMcCoy.
“That tweet was very telling, in terms of a mentality that is probably very widespread,” says

Adam, speaking softly from his office high above Toronto’s downtown financial district. He doesn’t sound angry, but he also isn’t amused. The phrases “some black girl” and “little blonde innocent girl” are ringing in my head as he talks, as are thoughts about how the heroes in our imaginations are white until proven otherwise, a variation on the principle of innocent until proven guilty that, for so many minorities, is routinely upended.

Adam tells me that, on the post featuring a screenshot of Alana’s tweet, he added, “Remember that word innocent? This is why Trayvon Martin is dead.” As he says it, I am thinking the same thing: of our culture’s association of whiteness with innocence, of a child described without an accompanying adjective, of a child rendered insignificant and therefore invisible because of his or her particular shade of skin.[/quote]

no cathedral can be built if no community desires one

Hunger games is fine

(#277813)

Nothing special, don't go out of your way, but I wouldn't draw a line against seeing it if you know someone who wants to.

 

I'm still dating an Indian girl and was interested that she pictured the black characters in the movie as white when reading the book. 

 

Relatedly, a black friend is in Delhi and she was complaining in an update that people keep trying to sell her face-lightening cream.

After seeing it, I described to friends as

(#277825)

just slightly above average.  

 

I could tell, without ever having read it, that the book was probably 100x better.

It is better to get what you want than it is to be right. -me

It gave off that impression to me as well

(#277827)

The colony revolts and empire stuff had the marks of being potentially interesting. 

 

And there's no way the main character was so boring in the book.

Prometheus...Ridley Scott...June 8, I Await all Atremble...

(#277828)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1446714/

This baby's gonna rock us! Traveller

I'm looking forward to this too

(#277833)
HankP's picture

it's been a while since I've seen a really good SF movie. I have my fingers crossed for this one...

I blame it all on the Internet

White=pure, Black=defilement

(#277830)
mmghosh's picture

is such an enduring myth, I don't suppose 60 years of multi-culti is going to change 3000 years of accreted opinion. Even though the archetypes Krishna, Rama and Kali are all dark.

no cathedral can be built if no community desires one

Oh Manish, Please See here my Image The Birth of Ganesh

(#277831)

I shot it late last night.

 

My assignment was to shoot something with rocks and stones...it is not my best work, but it does incorporate Marble, Coral and a Geode; yet with the subtext, it is educational. (Be sure to hit Original on the first view of anything on Pbase...thereafter they will come up sized as the artist intended)

 

The Birth of Ganesh: (I've moved the image....sometimes you think things are okay, then you realize they are not. It ain't there at the link....my bad for doing bad work).

 

try this, but understand my problem with Eligible...it's gotta be a rock, its gotta be shot now, it should not embarrass me. So I try again...

 

http://www.pbase.com/image/142470710

 

For exhibition, I cut these last night: (I am obviously much more pleased with these)

 

A Walk with the Stones

 

http://www.pbase.com/cichallenge/image/142458880

 

The Hiker

 

http://www.pbase.com/cichallenge/image/142459022

 

Best Wishes, Traveller

 

 

Interesting!

(#277842)
mmghosh's picture

We're not, in the east, into this particular myth - they like him wherever the moneywallahs are.  His cult is odd (then again, which one here [i]isn't[/i]). 

no cathedral can be built if no community desires one

Is that true?

(#277834)
HankP's picture

is there still a lot of skin color based racism in India? I've read differing reports on that.

I blame it all on the Internet

Hum, we invented skin colour based racism

(#277844)
mmghosh's picture

codified it, too.  A true Aryan is fair, and wears white.  Especially the women.  Miscegnation is the original sin.


Although there are plenty of counter-narratives, the conservative and orthodox view is definitely pro-white. VS Naipaul notes this in many places, as do tourists on TripAdvisor.

no cathedral can be built if no community desires one

the yellow rose of texas

(#277839)

In India, the highest gods have blue skin, the very beautiful skin colour, I'm told, of those who commit suicide by gas!

The skin colour of the girl in the picture you link to is neither black or white. I suspect she is an octoroon or quadroon and Americans atuned to this sort of thing would call her  "high yeller".

High yeller females are highly desired by Americans. In their war to defend the institution of slavery, Texans adopted the song "The Yellow Rose of Texas" as their battle hymn. The lyrics are about the extreme beauty of the girl, her desirability, and how much the singer is looking forward to re-uniting with her.

Myths, by the way, are not always enduring. The craze for eugenics of the early part of last century is all but dead, even though it was very widely accepted among intellectuals. Medical doctors, for example were the strongest supporters of the Nazi party in Germany. Tommy Douglas, revered in Canada as the Saskatchewan premier who first introduced socialized medicine was a medical doctor and enthusiastic eugenicist. His MA "thesis proposed a system that would have required couples seeking to marry to be certified as mentally and morally fit. Those deemed to be "subnormal" because of low intelligence, moral laxity or venereal disease would be sent to state farms or camps while those judged to be mental defective or incurably diseased would be sterilized." Such views were normal in the 30s, and not controversial.

Once the capability exists to allow us to change our skin colour at whim, to any colour of the rainbow, India's ridiculous fretting over skin colour will be a thing of the past.

You will kill 10 of our men, and we will kill 1 of yours, and in the end it will be you who tire of it. - Ho Chi Minh

Plenty of "eliminate from the gene pool" comments

(#277846)
mmghosh's picture

in various places on the net, both from the left and right.

Eugenic and "breeding" myths are very strong, ML - I don't think they are dead at all. Perhaps unsaid in polite society, but the stronger, perhaps, for being subterranean.

What about East Asians? The Chinese have been in my city for over 300 years - I can count the number of role model type mixed race unions on the fingers of one hand. Every parent I have known, and not just here, wishes their child to be partnered with the "right" person.

no cathedral can be built if no community desires one

Societies That Think That Way. . .

(#277847)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .should probably lay off the sex-selection abortions, or the modern equivalent of bride raiding is going to be closer to their future.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

In A Lot Of Contexts, Perhaps

(#277845)
M Scott Eiland's picture

But I always found it amusing that some of the people who claimed to be ideologically committed to that position turned out to be rather intimately involved with other people who they should have considered repulsive by that standard. Besides, what constitutes "black" these days anyway?

[IMG]http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn311/eilandesq/aishwarya-rai-pics-3d2d2.jpg[/IMG]

Aishwarya Rai

[IMG]http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn311/eilandesq/HalleBerry_Spell_4358439.jpg[/IMG]

Halle Berry

[IMG]http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn311/eilandesq/Charlize-Theron_16.jpg[/IMG]

Plus a rather famous African-American. :-P

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Doesn't Serena Williams attract a degree of racist comment

(#277848)
mmghosh's picture

about her appearance?

In spite of, or perhpas because of her obvious ability. in her prime, to bludgeon the opposition.  I remember reading a lament for Chris Evert as the last "great" classically white tennis player from the USA.

I don't find racism an interesting discussion point in sport. It detracts from the real thing.

no cathedral can be built if no community desires one

Mostly She Gets Sniped At. . .

(#277850)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .by people who accuse her of being a fat and lazy underachiever in spite of her rather formidable resume. Amusingly, the critic who is most famous for this sort of criticism is Jason Whitlock:

[IMG]http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn311/eilandesq/jason-whitlock.jpg[/IMG]

Have a few dozen burgers and STFU, Jason.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

have you seen

(#277856)

Battle royale? How does it compare?

It isn't about racism. It's about morons.

(#277855)

I read the book. Two characters are clearly described as black with kinky hair, so I read them as black with kinky hair. The book's only 180 pages long or so...did all these racist tweeters somehow skip those parts? Just read the dustcover? It isn't true always and everywhere, but in the US, racists tend to be bone stupid and unimaginative people. Thus, this.

 

Quick review of the first book since we're on this: interesting story concept but a missed opportunity to develop a kind of dark, Dantescan satire around the other contestants and their home districts. The book pretends to be about a post-apocalyptic America but other than "the rich are self-centered & exploitive" it doesn't give much of a picture. It's a satire with essentially no content (the beauty contest stuff is about as close as the book gets to a portrayal of contemporary American culture). This is no 1984.

 

By way of comparison, The Walking Dead (the non-stupid parts at least) features an intense conflict between two schools of thought. There's the Shane school which believes that the zombie apocalypse has basically abrogated all of the old laws and morals, and that in fact clinging to the old ethos (like altruism, family ties, etc.) is a dangerous, potentially deadly mistake. Then there's the Rick school, which holds that mere survival is worthless if we aren't also building a world that we'd want to live in. Shane's a utilitarian; Rick's a deontologist. "Act only according to that maxim by which you can also will that it would become a universal law," and "Act in such a way that you always treat humanity, whether in your own person or in the person of any other, never simply as a means, but always at the same time as an end," are Rick's guiding principles.

 

But the show's more than a philosophical debate. You can also see the "Shane" and "Rick" camps as extensions of the "conservative" and "liberal" camps respectively, and so the show contains elements of a pretty effective satire of current American politics as well.

M Aurelius was probably right.

Western culture as footnotes to Plato

(#277862)
mmghosh's picture

or the Platonic Socrates?

no cathedral can be built if no community desires one

Who will describe mobile demo trucks made in war factories?

(#277829)
brutusettu's picture

[url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/man-whose-wmd-lies-led-to-100000-deaths-confesses-all-7606236.html]Curveball is proud of his lies [/url]

"I’m to believe that North Korea is so dangerously unhinged that they would attack without warning – yet so meek and easily cowed that they will sit quietly and not retaliate when we start bombing them."

Major Kong

"The Walkbacks Are Becoming A Stampede"

(#277851)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Funny how jumping to conclusions based on a grainy video and existing political prejudices can cause one to say stupid s**t that needs to be hastily retracted later.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

I'm refraining from commenting on the

(#277863)

nuts and bolts of what went down that evening until a jury's had some discussion.

 

That said, when it comes to the assumptions that are getting bandied about here, I think that Martin the Thug Who Was Casing the Neighborhood for Before Being Caught in the Act by Zimmerman is just a wee bit less sustainable than the Innocent Teen Stalked and Shot one.

The shooting still took place no where near a quick

(#277864)
brutusettu's picture

few steps from the street, Zimmerman had to walk around some townhouses to get to another walkway.

****plus most people with eyes pointed out that video didn't have the bestest best quality.
****self defense from someone you're tracking down in the night? just one minute here.

"I’m to believe that North Korea is so dangerously unhinged that they would attack without warning – yet so meek and easily cowed that they will sit quietly and not retaliate when we start bombing them."

Major Kong

Well, we're going to Florida

(#277869)
mmghosh's picture

I have a friend who works in Tampa.  I learn the Tampa police have[url=http://www.tampagov.net/dept_Police/ABOUT_US/INVESTIGATIONS_AND_SUPPORT/SPECIAL_SUPPORT_DIVISION/SPECIALTY_TEAMS/TACTICAL_RESPONSE_TEAM/]acquired APCs for their use.[/url]

I still maintain the possibility that most people walking the streets are carrying handguns.

no cathedral can be built if no community desires one

White knighting for Zimmerman? Really? nt

(#277866)
HankP's picture

.

I blame it all on the Internet

Posting Rules

(#277868)
M Scott Eiland's picture

And you might want to direct your ire at the news services who the link notes are busily backtracking on recklessly published false information--unless the thought that they know better than, well anyone here, what might get them sued if somone got killed as a result of race riots stirred up by said false info.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Did I say you were whiteknighting?

(#277871)
HankP's picture

BTW, when was the last "race riot"? When Kentucky won?

I blame it all on the Internet

Unless You Specifically Deny Having Done So, Yes

(#277872)
M Scott Eiland's picture

And your comment is a complete non-sequitur, unless you're suggesting equivalency between a postgame riot and a situation that is more and more resembling another Rodney King type event, if those pumping it up get their way.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

The only thing I see

(#277874)
HankP's picture

is that riots are only called "race riots" when it's mostly blacks participating.

 

You have it backwards, unless I specifically accuse you of something it's not a PRV. Your constant use of words like "idiot", "thug" and comments like this indicate that this is just another rule made up on the spot.

I blame it all on the Internet

As Written. . .

(#277876)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .the comment seems to be directed at me. Unless you can point to comments by me that similarly seem to be directed at someone here without clarification, your response is a non-sequitur.

By the way, are you acknowledging that accusing someone here of white knighting is a PRV? Anything that will remove that obnoxious new element from your comments will be welcome.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Nope

(#277887)
HankP's picture

your claim fails on multiple levels, I just picked the most obvious one. I'd recommend running for mod again if you want to start reinterpreting things around here.

I blame it all on the Internet

Not difficult to do

(#277939)

#277909

"I don't want us to descend into a nation of bloggers." - Steve Jobs

Addressed The Comment

(#277945)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Saying that an (unnamed) source of comments is predictable is certainly not an insult per se.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

To use a very recent Eilandism

(#277978)

Unless you specifically deny implicating Hank, yes, it was a PRV.

"I don't want us to descend into a nation of bloggers." - Steve Jobs

No Underlying Violation For It To Be Referring To

(#278002)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Which, as Catchy ruled, turned out to be the case for the comment I was responding to. His call.

A for effort, though.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Race Riots Involve Rioting Over Racially Charged Controversies

(#277878)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Weak innuendo directed at me noted.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

As defined by whom?

(#277889)
HankP's picture

Like I said, I don't see the term being used when white people are the ones rioting. Or the use of the word "thug", for that matter.

I blame it all on the Internet

White people riot?

(#277907)
mmghosh's picture

In the USA?

no cathedral can be built if no community desires one

Occasionally

(#277909)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Apparently, not stating the obvious tends to provoke whiny, innuendo laden comments from predictable sources.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Dupe

(#277942)
M Scott Eiland's picture

.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

I understand that a couple of years ago....

(#277912)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

...one of the shipments of Fiji Water got tied up on the docks at Long Beach for a week and the sans culottes started threatening to write really nasty letters to the LAT.  Does that count?

Indeed. Why should a dominant group riot?

(#277953)
mmghosh's picture

It was understandable in the past when old established privileges were being dismantled.


 


I was under the impression that, post 1970, the USA had reached the happy medium position of minorities and disadvantaged seeming to be apparently enfranchised, with actual wealth and power remained with the dominant class.  Everyone happy.

no cathedral can be built if no community desires one

At most Hank is misdescribing your comment and intent

(#277880)

'White knighting' is also not an insult b/c it's trivial. It just means inappropriately defending someone.

 

Btw, you had a legitimate PRV with Micky the other day, but things fall through the cracks. 

Or it could

(#277883)

mean this,  especially in a race issue.

 

The best insults are the ambiguous ones.

FTR

(#277888)
HankP's picture

that's not what it means.

I blame it all on the Internet

Maybe it's a regional thing

(#277892)

Never heard of whiteknighting in the gerund form.   Where I grew up in NC the White Knights had an obvious meaning but of course things are different on the west coast.

It's more recent

(#277895)
HankP's picture

and pretty common on larger sites that host forums. I've only seen it for the past few years. It usually applies to people in a forum who, let's say, defend Sandra Bullock's acting ability. Or Sarah Palin's ability to heal the partisan divide.

I blame it all on the Internet

It Has a Similar Meaning in Finance

(#277897)

or at least it used to: White Knight Investor.

Sorry, I'm going to continue

(#277901)

Sorry, I'm going to continue to think Zimmerman is full of it and his supporters are pretty nuts.  How does that make you feel?

Someone somewhere is

(#277903)

is crossing his fingers for a riot. It is known.

Why? I cannot say. but I have a pretty good idea.

Like You Didn't Read The Links

(#277910)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Which is your right.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

I read them just fine.  These

(#277928)

I read them just fine.  These stories of media shenanigans doesn't change my opinion of Zimmerman and his supporters.  In fact, the continued dismissal of the race issue by his supporters makes me think they are even more unhinged.  Does that make you angry?

Posting Rules

(#277930)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Comment, not the commenter.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

I didn't claim you are a

(#277934)

I didn't claim you are a Zimmerman supporter.  I am just noting some pretty strongly worded posts for a case that even Limbaugh thinks doesn't have any winners.  I suspect it is because you are trolling the site and are trying to provoke PRVs.  Nice job on that, by the way.

Dude...

(#277940)

That dog won't hunt around here.

 

Like his opinions or don't, but M Scott has been around for a long time and I have never needed a PRV to reply to the guy.

 

You, on the other hand, keep asking if you made him angry. Why is that?

 

I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.

heet's been around for as long

(#277946)

and never in my memory has been borderline with PRVs.

 

I'm sure this'll settle down in a sec.

I know...

(#277963)

But I was annoyed he kept going after your request to knock it off.

I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.

"never in my memory has been borderline with PRVs"

(#277984)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

Walks right up to the line, hops over and says "That's how I roll, bitches!"?

PRV

(#277950)
HankP's picture

address the comment, not the commenter.

 

See, anybody can play this game.

I blame it all on the Internet

*Scott Bookmarks The Above Comment. . .

(#277951)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .and sets it aside for predictable future moments*

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Um, think you're missing the point here nt

(#277955)
HankP's picture

.

I blame it all on the Internet

Huh?  I suppose I'm dense

(#277957)

Huh?  I suppose I'm dense because I don't see how asking about someone's feelings is a PRV.  In any case, I made my point.

Alright heet, that's enough, please.

(#277931)

I prefer not to spend my time on the site policing stuff, if you don't mind.

Yeay!

(#278007)

Finally found a way for conservatives to come down on the side of a Latino. If we all promise to shoot a black kid, maybe you guys might soften up on legalization even.

"I don't want us to descend into a nation of bloggers." - Steve Jobs

Ryan Leaf. Wow.

(#277893)

I used like to snigger about "the biggest bust in the history of the NFL*" but from now on whenever his name comes up I'm just gonna sit quietly and reflect.

 

  

HELENA, Mont. -- Former NFL quarterback Ryan Leaf was arrested again Monday, just days after he posted bail on similar charges that he burglarized a home and stole prescription drugs, authorities said.

 

Leaf was first arrested on Friday after police found oxycodone pills in his golf bag that an acquaintance later said Leaf stole from his home. Then early Monday, three days after posting a $76,000 bond, he was arrested again on accusations that he broke into another home outside Great Falls, Central Montana Drug Task Force commander Chris Hickman said.

 

The probation violation is related to a plea agreement Leaf made in Texas after being accused in 2009 of burglarizing a player's home while he was a quarterbacks coach for Division II West Texas A&M. An investigation turned up that Leaf had obtained nearly 1,000 pain pills from area pharmacies in an eight-month span.

 

His plea agreement gave him 10 years of probation. Randall County District Attorney James Farren said he planned to file a motion Monday to revoke Leaf's probation.

 

Farren said the Texas judge in that case could set a hearing date, extradite Leaf for the hearing and then return Leaf to Montana for the proceedings in that state.

 

"Our argument will be that he should go to prison," Farren said.

 

Leaf arrest's [sic] on Friday was the result of a monthlong investigation that started with a tip that Leaf had been receiving small, rattling cash-on-delivery packages at the post office worth $500 or more once or twice a week.

 

 

-----------------

*Biggest bust not nick-named "The Boz".

Yes, I've Been Following this Also...How Can a Life go So Wrong?

(#277915)

....I was a defender of Mr. Leaf his first couple of years in San Diego. Then I wished him well when he left but continued to shoot himself in the foot now and again whenever he appeared on sports radio.

 

Now....just, gosh, like Maurice Clarett he has fallen down the rat hole.  (re Clarett,  I am happy to say may have turned his life around...

 

Clarett enrolled in a distance-learning program at Ohio University while serving his sentence at the Toledo Correctional Institution. Clarett would work towards earning a bachelor's degree in Geriatrics and Gerontology.[28]

On April 7, 2010, Judge Fais granted early release to Clarett.

 

Traveller

Ah, The Sweet Sound Of The Santorum Death Rattle

(#277926)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Say good night, Ricky.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Um

(#277933)
HankP's picture

Earlier, in a defiant speech in Mars, Pa., Mr. Santorum declared that the race was at its halfway point, and said he wasn't about to quit now.

"Pennsylvania and half the other people in this country have yet to be heard," Mr. Santorum told supporters. "After winning this state, the field looks a little different in May."

I blame it all on the Internet

Ron Paul Is Still In The Race, Too

(#277935)
M Scott Eiland's picture

He's just (slightly) less relevant than Santorum. He's also less likely to be quietly threatened with lasting consequences by party leaders than Santorum is--and the funding will be drying up even more now.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Oh, it's unlikely that he'll make a difference

(#277936)
HankP's picture

but Romney isn't that strong acandidate, and one or two major gaffes/skeletons in a closet could change things.

I blame it all on the Internet

I was thinking that when looking at Intrade

(#277948)

Santorum has a .6% chance of winning.

 

That might be right if the primary dynamic continues with no major shakeups.

 

But Santorum is likely to win if someone finds a skeleton in Romney's closet/some other scandal. A less than 1% chance of that occurring seems much too low and that's why I'd like Traveller to purchase some Santorum shares.

I think Traveller should buy more stuff too

(#277952)
HankP's picture

now that he's livin the sweet life on Medicare he must have tens of dollars to throw at things we think up.

I blame it all on the Internet

You Know, I Really, Realy Like Medicare...Drugs Costs However

(#277961)

 

Medicare should have been extended donwards to 60 years old, then 50...we would have been close to where we need to get to towards decent universal health care.

 

I do have tens upon tens of dollars to throw around...you are correct with that part. Of course it is all going to my denist, having had dental surgery today....the pain killer is wearing off....lock up your liquors.

 

Traveller

 

 

Damn.

(#277983)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

I wasted all my tens of dollars on a share in the office lottery ticket buy.  (Yes, yes, I KNOW.  I class it under "team building exercises".  Maybe I can write it off next year as a business expense.)

Well, poops

(#277958)

I wanted more moral theology.  (It's very rare that having an in-depth knowledge of moral theology is actually relevant, and it turns out that my moment has come and gone).

Don't despair

(#277964)
HankP's picture

on current trends you'll know more about the Republicans policies than anyone else here.

I blame it all on the Internet

Fun Interview Of The Day

(#277937)
M Scott Eiland's picture

DNC Mouthpiece In Chief Debbie Wasserman-Schultz explains how the most corrupt mayor in modern LA history is just fine with her as the face for the upcoming Democratic National Convention and how dare anyone say otherwise!

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

most corrupt mayor in modern LA history? Just Utter Silliness.nt

(#277956)

Traveller

Like trying to figure out....

(#277982)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

Flori-DUH

(#277947)
HankP's picture

If you're in Tampa when the GOP convention is in town, you won't be able to carry wood, hard tubes or anything else that could be used as a club, as well as water guns, super soakers, air guns, paintball guns, explosives, switchblades, hatchets, slingshots, brass knuckles, Mace, chains, crowbars, hammers, shovels, or any container containing urine, fecal matter or other bodily fluid.

 

If you're in downtown Tampa, you won't be able to carry ropes, straps, tape or string longer than 6 inches, glass containers, ceramic vessels, light bulbs, padlocks and bicycle locks, things that could be used as portable shields and gas masks.

 

If you're in the vicinity of the convention center itself, you won't be able to carry aerosol cans, camping gear, coolers and ice chests, fireworks, lasers, bottles, cans, thermoses, sticks, poles, ladders and umbrellas with metal tips.

 

But in all those areas, you will be able to carry a gun:

 

"It was just kind of common sense," Assistant City Attorney Mauricio Rodriguez said. "We felt if we're going to regulate people carrying sticks and poles, why wouldn't we regulate people carrying firearms, because those could pose significant risks to police and other protesters."

But later, city attorneys removed the ban on guns after finding that Florida Statute 790.33 prohibits local governments from enacting any laws on the sale, purchase, transfer, taxation, manufacture, ownership, possession, storage or transportation of guns or ammunition.

Enacted last year, the state law allows judgments of up to $100,000 against local governments that enforce local gun ordinances. It also says local officials could be removed from office and fined $5,000, with no representation from the city or county attorney.

 

 

 

I blame it all on the Internet

Yup, ridiculous inconsistency

(#277966)

How do you propose to resolve it?  My solution would be to allow all those other things, rather than restrict the firearms.

 

The ban on gas masks or anything you could use to shield yourself from a beating isn't a good sign.

I have a better idea

(#277967)
HankP's picture

let's just put barrels of loaded guns on every street corner and let people take them and use them if they feel the need to do so. Hell, hand them out to everyone who attends the convention. What could go wrong?

I blame it all on the Internet

Now there's the Democrats I know and love

(#277986)

You guys can't even talk about guns without the words 'hand' and 'out'.  Think of the upside, you could probably get a lot of conservatives to go along with pegging the rich to pay for this.

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

I'm very envious of gun owners

(#278010)

Gimme a handout!

Gun grabby. - nt

(#278013)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

Too complicated

(#277996)

A better method would be to require everyone to purchase a Gun-of-the-Month-Club plan from a weapons manufacturer of their choice.

My fearless prediction:

(#278006)

Should the Occupy movement ever, God forbid, decide to channel its inner Weather Underground (these guys, not these) and rediscover their own Second Amendment rights, Conservatives will decide to embrace gun control laws so fast it will make your head spin.

"I've been on food stamps and welfare.  Anybody help me out?  No!" Craig T. Nelson (6/2/2009)

No, Not Really

(#278032)
M Scott Eiland's picture

One expects terrorists to be armed, and letting that fact interfere with the exercise of one's own right to bear arms would be stupid. Cheering while the scum in question are hunted down and eradicated would do nicely. I wouldn't worry, though--that kind of thing would be a bit more of a commitment for that crowd than not bathing and the occasional rape has involved, so I'm sure they're not up to it.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

The Occupiers are Terrorists now?

(#278044)

I must have been at work when they blew up a federal building, set off a bomb at the Olympics, or fire-bombed women's health clinics like their right-wing brethren have done in recent years.

"I've been on food stamps and welfare.  Anybody help me out?  No!" Craig T. Nelson (6/2/2009)

According To Your Hypothetical, Yes

(#278055)
M Scott Eiland's picture

I was simply assuming it to be true in describing the appropriate response. If you read my comment, you would realize that I tend to think that the useless parasites in question almost certainly lack the energy or nerve required for such a path. Admittedly, the whole "cover up the rapes in the name of screwing The Man" thing leads me to believe that they might have the raw contempt for women to make decent Islamic terrorists, but one resume item does not a skillset make.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

I like it!

(#277981)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

C'mon, you know the only people carrying the other crap would be protesting hippies.

So do I!

(#278043)
mmghosh's picture

What do you [url=http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/defensive-carry-guns/61741-most-popular-concealed-handguns.html]carry to work and play?[/url]

no cathedral can be built if no community desires one

Why only guns?

(#278021)
TXG1112's picture

The 2nd ammendment protects the right to bear arms, not just guns. I realize that there is a state law that trumps local officials in this specific instance, but even crude melee weapons are in the set of "arms".

 

--- I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered. My life is my own.

That's a good point

(#278022)
HankP's picture

certainly any originalist would at least extend it to swords and cannon.

I blame it all on the Internet

With a properly fitted

(#278023)

With a properly fitted trebuchet*, convention protesters corraled in the Free Speech Area ought to have no trouble making themselves heard above the convention floor.

 

 

 

----------------

*Perhaps even one consructed of papier mache. 

Swords? Yes. Cannon? I think that would depend on the

(#278026)

interpretation of 'bear'.  If one were to limit arms allowed to those that can be carried then cannon would generally be off the list.  OTOH, if somebody really could pick up a six-pounder I'd give you a dollar to go tell him he can't have it.

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

Only if I had a sword

(#278054)
HankP's picture

a six pounder really isn't a close-in weapon. And yes, I took fencing so I know how to handle a sword.

I blame it all on the Internet

Sword?

(#278075)
brutusettu's picture

I'll take a [url=https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=%22i%22ll+mace+you+good%22&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1280&bih=865&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=ICJ9T-K4OIGk9ATc9_ifDQ]flail[/url] over some sword.

"I’m to believe that North Korea is so dangerously unhinged that they would attack without warning – yet so meek and easily cowed that they will sit quietly and not retaliate when we start bombing them."

Major Kong

Pass

(#278076)
M Scott Eiland's picture

I learned while playing Shadowrun that if a weapon has a nonzero additional chance to hit *you* in the middle of a fight compared to more conservative weapons, it will do so at the least convenient moment possible. This goes for flails, nunchaku, and--solely in the realm of fiction and gaming so far--most definitely for monomolecular weapons.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Sentimental Added Value gives + 5 to STR and 20% Physcial Wall

(#278078)
brutusettu's picture

"I’m to believe that North Korea is so dangerously unhinged that they would attack without warning – yet so meek and easily cowed that they will sit quietly and not retaliate when we start bombing them."

Major Kong

You only get one chance with a flail or a mace

(#278077)
HankP's picture

because they keep moving after you miss. Swords are a lot faster.

 

But I thought your weapon of choice was a letter opener? Maybe a stapler?

I blame it all on the Internet

But a flail generally gives you distance on an opponent

(#278082)

which means that he's still got to close the distance after you miss.

 

Thresher-derived weapons are surprisingly efficient.

Oh here we go. In the last 12 hours or so

(#278084)

The dust has been blown off of a few dozen D&D Player's Handbooks with the burning question of 'What about a ranseur?' running through minds.

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

I'm still trying to figure out how you fight

(#278100)

with a spittoon. Assuming, of course, that you're not Jackie Chan in a remake of Rio Bravo.

M Aurelius was probably right.

Oh and BTW Hank

(#278088)

The flail, mace, axe and other heavy offensive weapons have an advantage.  There's not a whole lot of content in the archives that amount to 'He got hit, then he got up...'.  OTOH, I've read of rapier duels where a guy has been run through seven times.

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

I'll admit

(#278098)
HankP's picture

that I don't know as much as you do about imaginary weapons, but as I recall things like the flail only make sense if you're wearing heavy armor because of the PYOEOE (poke your own eye out effect). So sure, if you're done up like the Black Knight (which your squire will have assembled in half an hour or so), flail away. In real life, I'll still take the sword.

I blame it all on the Internet

Imaginary weapons? Obsolete. Antique. Historical maybe

(#278140)

but not imaginary.  Never heard that about the flail.  I do know that as armor improved it negated the need for a shield, freeing up a hand, leading to newer 2 handed weapons which were needed because armor improved.

Anyway, I'd go for something loud and obnoxious.  I'm thinking along the lines of the longest rapier I could find.  I wouldn't even be able to get it out of the scabbard but I'd have a good time knocking stuff over every time I made a right turn.

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

I was referring

(#278141)
HankP's picture

to your comment about D&D. Also, I was discussing this in the context of late summer in Tampa, not the best conditions to wear armor.

 

Now, for close-in engagement in an urban setting you definitely don't want a rapier, that's a thrusting weapon. You want a light, curved edged weapon like a saber or a katana, typically about 3' long.

I blame it all on the Internet

That bottom part sounds wrong.

(#278158)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

Curved single-edge weapons imply room to move and swing, hence cavalry sabers.  For close in work in confined spaces, you want thrusting weapons, albeit shorter ones.  Maybe a Roman gladius?

In a loose crowd

(#278160)
HankP's picture

most people will stay at least 5 feet away from you (and more like 8), unless they're engaging. You want the edge so you don't have to aim so carefully, a good slash is usually more damaging than a stab. Now I'm assuming a looser concentration that a true hand to hand melee where you're really being packed together, in that case you'd want a shorter straight sword with an edge and a point.

I blame it all on the Internet

Have you ever held a sword with a forward sloping blade?

(#278166)

I mean like yataghan or a chassepot.  The link below is to an example that is similar to one I own.  The curve at the percussion point with the percussion point being ahead of the arc of the swing gives it a sharper blade that strikes like an axe.  As a side note, the advantage when using this sort of sword as a bayonet is that the curve of the blade got it out of the way of the muzzle making reloading easier. 

 

http://arms2armor.com/Bayonets/fren1866.htm

 

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

Unfortunately not

(#278168)
HankP's picture

95% of my experience was with a foil, we did have a few classes with epees and one with a saber. Of course fencing is very stylized and formal compared to actual usage.

I blame it all on the Internet

Is it normal

(#278182)
aireachail's picture

if it curves a little to the left?

 

(just asking for a friend)

A slight curve to the left is ok. But....

(#278186)

...if it's bent to the point where there's a kink you should probably have 'your friend' see a doctor blacksmith.

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

I'm really excited about this idea.

(#278051)

Pitchforks, clubs, knives, swords and torches. Go 2nd Amendment! Occupy Tampa!

M Aurelius was probably right.

Great Idea

(#278056)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Meet the head of security:

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

More like

(#278067)

M Aurelius was probably right.

Can I bring my spontoon?

(#278057)
Jay C's picture

After all, if it was good enough for George Washington....

From almost 2nd in Command

(#277968)

to doing Today show spots on preparing party snacks with Tori Spelling:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In fairness, both Madeleine Albright and Hilary Clinton have also done TV appearances about cooking snacks. 

I'm disappointed that she didn't cook up some Moose

(#277970)
HankP's picture

because if it tastes anything like Elk, it's f(&king awesome.

I blame it all on the Internet

You should send that comment to the Today Show

(#277971)

Matt Lauer's tired of hearing from housewives.

I think this is what she really wanted.

(#277977)

Actual government is boring.

M Aurelius was probably right.

Also, TV pays better....

(#277980)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

Playing the long game.

(#277985)

That requires more than just blurting out whatever ill-informed opinion pops into mind at the moment, right?

M Aurelius was probably right.

Generally.

(#278012)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

OTOH, as Andrew points out, the long game also implies a fair amount of stress.  I'm sure it's an artifact of their being of a certain age when they get elected, but these guys always seem to age visibly to me over the course of a couple of years.

 

(There were a set of stories posted on SHWI years ago based on the idea that the Nazis managed to unearth some of the Cthulhu mythos, which ended up in US and Soviet hands postwar.  "A Colder War", IIRC.  One of the running gags was that the Presidents all seemed to age overnight after getting their first briefing.  Jimmy Carter's reaction was particularly good, and then he was killed by a vampiric rabbit while fishing....)

Yep.

(#277989)

I understand why someone would want to be POTUS (or a representative) for the power and prestige that it conveys, but especially with being POTUS, you basically lose any sort of an independent existence, go grey, and rack up a ton of stress.  At times I wonder why anyone wants it.

Free Rides on Air Force One

(#278052)

The job does have some perks.

I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.

ADP payroll report

(#277991)

says 200k new jobs in March.  ADP usually misses the mark when it comes to what DoL numbers look like, but given first time UI claims and ISM numbers, I'm going to guess that the general economists' consensus is right and that we're going to have another set of fairly robust numbers on job creation this Friday.

 

I'm especially curious as to what Household Survey will look like--DoL payroll surveys tend to miss smaller outfits but Household Survey tends to be "noisier."

 

Be that as it may, if we stick with a few more months of job growth in the neighborhood of 200k/month, I think we'll be able to unpucker and say that we're actually in genuine recovery territory. 

 

Now, if I can just do better on this afternoon's interview than the other interviews I had this academic year...

Good luck on your interview

(#278008)

I've been tanking mine. 7 interviews so far but no offers. I was thinking of getting a haircut.

Thanks! This end has also

(#278014)

been good for interviews, not so much for offers.  Hopefully this one will go a little better.

And as a follow-up, this one felt

(#278024)

much better than the previous four.  Which of course doesn't mean anything--I thought that I'd bombed the interview for the place where I am now, after all--but it was probably the best I've been on my interview game this academic year. 

 

Of course, pining to go from a year-to-year full-time contract to the tenure track is one of the most first world of first world problems, but there you go.

Circa 1 billion people live in the 1st world

(#278034)

That's a lot of folks to compare with and educators don't get paid particularly well in the US and are under attack.

 

Feeling all lucky inside is probably good for one's health, but I have mixed feelings about people in academica who claim to feel privileged, especially if they're grad students teaching and researching in order to live at the poverty level or non-tenure track faculty.

 

But I'll probably feel better once I get off the damn job market. 

Oh, an adjunct stuck with a 4/4 and no job security or

(#278036)

benefits is pretty screwed.  But I'm teaching full-time (with an absurdly high teaching load) with a decent salary, insurance, retirement, and a more or less indefinitely renewable contract.  My biggest problems are not being on the tenure track and thus being ineligible to run for faculty Senate or vote in faculty senate elections and also ineligible for faculty development money.  And even on the latter my department chair and other superiors have been very good about actually being able to find the travel funds for me to present at conferences.

 

That's mainly why I call my problem a first-world problem.

 

I'd like to think I'm a few years beyond the excitement of being a funded grad student and feeling one has gotten away with something by getting paid to do scholarship.  (By the last year of grad school I was getting mighty sick of having to calculate my grocery budget to within five dollars).

 

Oh, and as long as we're talking about our job prospects, it appears that after four years of austerity, state budgets are finally making a comeback and so state and local governments (to include state universities!) should start hiring at a stronger pace than the last few years.

I've heard several rumors

(#278039)

that the job market is actually going to make a comeback next year.

 

I'll believe it when I see it!

I've been on the job market for a tenure-track position

(#278040)

for the last, holy crud, four years now.  And I've seen definite progress.  The absolute nadir of postings (for medieval history at any rate) was 2009-10.  Numbers increased drastically in 2010-11 and then even more in this academic year.  (Between last year and this year, the number of postings that I was qualified for doubled, and the number of initial interviews I got doubled as well).

 

So courage!  It genuinely is looking up.  Heck, at this point there are enough postings to maybe even keep the backlog of unemployed PhDs from growing.

That's the thing

(#278042)

The # of jobs is apparently growing, but not fast enough so that the backlog and supply of new graduates flooding the humanities' market is shrinking. So every year is worse than the last in terms of competition for a position. 

 

I've been unpleasantly surprised at who I've been competing with for even mediocre tenure-track jobs. Princeton and MIT graduates getting offers instead of me for depts with no graduate students, depts where few to none of the faculty who were hired before 2007 are in the same league as their new hire. 

 

A few interviews back, I was interviewed by a 4-person panel every member of whom was on a worse publication trajectory and/or came from a lower-ranked school. I did not proceed to the next round for an on-campus visit.

 

I think that means it's a buyers market out there.

Is it assumed that a Princeton/MIT graduate is better then you?

(#278045)
mmghosh's picture

I mean, are they looking at the PhD, or the school?

no cathedral can be built if no community desires one

Both

(#278048)

But school reputation counts for a lot as do recommendation letters from very famous folk. 

 

For instance, coming from Ohio State, having several publications as a graduate student is probably necessary to be competitive for tenure-track positions in the job market since 2008 (this has never been true at any other time for OSU's phil dept, whose phD program dates back to the 50s). I have three publications - two peer reviewed, one invited.

 

MIT and Princeton graduates in contrast might have no publications or one and still land a position.

In my field, my general "feel" is that

(#278049)

based on the numbers of people for each search--Most rejection letters these days will often say words to the effect of, "It wasn't you, there were X other applicants in the pool and you were all very good."--if the numbers of postings continue their trend, the backlog won't get any worse.  And then (because I'm a terrible person), I'm also counting on a substantial number of my competitors dropping out of the pool of competitors to have children and live off of their white collar husband's income and the occasional adjuncting gig.

 

As to our respective competitors, I'm honestly not entirely sure why Non-Prestigious State U hires someone with a PhD from Princeton or an Ivy, since it's fairly clear that if they remain even remotely productive in their publications, the new hire will be jumping ship at the first opportunity to move to the precious, precious Northeast and they'll have to do a search all over again.

Dear evidence-challenged liberals,

(#278001)

I don't care if you know for certain that strings were pulled to get GWB out of his guard service and so figure that reproducing the memo that states this outright on MS Word is just helping the truth along, I don't care if you just want to make Zimmerman's racism explicit and so doctor the tapes of his 911 call.  It's both morally wrong and counter-productive.

 

Seriously.  Just stop it.

 

I guess it's not as bad as a white American male figuring that even if he's pretending a Syrian lesbian, it's okay because he's still telling their truth blah blah hegemonic discourse blah blah blah or people saying that Guatemalan Indios have a different standard of truth than white people and so Rigoberta Menchu can make s*** up for her Communist propaganda, but it still galls.

 

 

Zimmerman Should Be Grateful. . .

(#278004)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .that NBC didn't combine their known methods of ethical violations and rig him to explode the next time he said "black."

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Macallan had a great diary on this attitude, back in the day.

(#278005)

I don't feel like searching for it, but the gist was that people shouldn't feel that "being right" gives them license to do any number of otherwise "wrong" things. In general, a sense of moral license or moral entitlement is a way for people to disown responsibility for all kinds of things, from merely venal (white lies) through crappy (yelling at waitresses) on down through to creepy (propaganda) and atrocious (pogroms).

 

Stop feeling entitled. Lying is lying.

M Aurelius was probably right.

You undermine all religion, sir.

(#278046)
mmghosh's picture

That is the reason behind morality - as Dosteovsky said memorably, with God everything is permitted.

 

Atheists, [url=http://rockbeyondbelief.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Son-of-Thank-God-For-Dead-Soldiers-Preacher-Nate-Phelps-to-speak-at-Military-Base.pdf]OTOH.[/url]

no cathedral can be built if no community desires one

doctoring by someone would be obvious to anyone that heard both

(#278018)
brutusettu's picture

....NBC acted like they almost wanted to get caught*.

That reminds me of the well made and very similar looking anti-Semite signs that at least 2 homeless-looking men had during OWS. It was as if someone wanted the 2 homeless-looking men to look like some paid plants to discredit OWS, but they were so obvious, that they looked like someone was trying to make it look like they were plants...some sort of 11 dimensional chess to discredit someone was going on.

*which of course means NBC has been infiltrated O'Keefe minions.

"I’m to believe that North Korea is so dangerously unhinged that they would attack without warning – yet so meek and easily cowed that they will sit quietly and not retaliate when we start bombing them."

Major Kong

The mote in your neighbor's eye

(#278019)
HankP's picture

The beam in your own.

I blame it all on the Internet

I'd rather there not be more material for O'Keefe et al.

(#278020)

to be able to engage in a massive round of tu quoque.

I was just wondering

(#278025)
HankP's picture

when similar attention would be paid to other examples. I guess people just expect it from Fox.

I blame it all on the Internet

O'Keefe et al are going to do whatever they want

(#278031)

with or w/out a tu quoque defense that tracks reality.

 

And no arbiter in the sky is going to fail to uniquely ostracize O'Keefe et al. if media figures on the left sink to their level.

 

I'd like to hear some other qualm about using these means. because overall the ends don't seem terrible. 

Yeah, but the more all sides engage in it

(#278037)

(because The Other Side Does It!) the more you cast into doubt truth-telling and reality-based enquiry (at least among media-consuming people).  And that's very bad for an informed democracy.

Dear conservatives

(#278027)
TXG1112's picture

There is nothing that excuses the shooting death of an unarmed black kid walking home from the store.

 

Edit - please don't think this is aimed at you Andrew. I'm just tired of all the lame justifications.

--- I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered. My life is my own.

Why does his race matter?

(#278030)

Other than that, no issue with what you're saying. 

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

Because history matters.... Less and less but it does play

(#278041)

A part in things.... That we have institutional racism/bias still in some or many places is also a fact. Other than those factors race should not matter but it does....

It matters

(#278085)
TXG1112's picture

Irrespective of whether Zimmerman is a racist, the fact that Martin is black certainly factored into Zimmerman's initial suspicions and the behavior of the police after the fact.

 

There are plenty of folks on the starboard side (thankfully none posting here) that believe that fact alone is sufficient reason to have shot Martin.

--- I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered. My life is my own.

Hold up here.

(#278087)

An innocent kid was shot.  His race most certainly does not matter.  As for what other folks think, that's an odd position to take after just telling MSE that public opinion isn't germane.  Whether his race was a factor or not is an assumption on your part.  You could be right, but we've already been played by the media on this thing so I'm holding off on any conclusions until the dust settles a bit.

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

I stand by both comments

(#278089)
TXG1112's picture

Public opinion isn't germaine and my opinion isn't worth any more than anyone else's. Having said that, I think that the kids race was a factor the decision making process (such as it was) for both Zimmerman and the Police's actions surrounding that night. You don't need to think anyone is a racist to believe this. In fact, I think one needs to be willfully ignorant to believe otherwise.

 

Can you honestly say that events would have unfolded as they did were Martin not black? I can't.

 

 

--- I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered. My life is my own.

Counterfactuals are always a bit tough, but

(#278090)

I think that if you reversed races, it would depend on the social position of a black guy shot someone in alleged self defense.  I can easily see the cops letting a middle-class neighborhood watch member who happened to be black off the hook as easily as they did for Zimmerman, since he would be, in that most pernicious of phrases, "one of the good ones."

Thinking it though a bit more...

(#278092)
TXG1112's picture

A better answer for Darth: You're right in that race doesn't matter with regards to investigation and prosecution and I'm not a believer in hate crime laws anyway. Never the less I can't imagine that Zimmerman would have gotten out of his car to chase a kid that wasn't black.

 

If Zimmerman is throughly investigated and found not guilty by his peers then we can say justice was done. The media circus makes that process more difficult but this would never have happened had the Police done their jobs in the first place.

--- I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered. My life is my own.

Wait a minute.

(#278099)

Black kid = "suspicious" has been motive enough for thousands of appalling acts of violence in this country. The race of defendants has a long history of mattering when it comes to police attention, arrests, arraignments, convictions & sentencing...a history that continues to this day.

 

This shooting fits a very, very well established pattern. That's why it matters.

M Aurelius was probably right.

Jordan, go back to the original statement

(#278101)

'There is nothing that excuses the shooting death of an unarmed black kid walking home from the store.'


If race matters, when using the term 'nothing excuses' then there is something that excuses, if only in part, the shooting if the kid were a different race.  The issue is that an unarmed kid was killed.  The race of the individuals involved, the history of the races involved etc have as much to do with the wrongness of this as the alignment of the planets.

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

We're talking past each other.

(#278102)

When you said 'race has nothing to do with it' I had to react, as it clearly was and continues to be a factor affecting every aspect of this case.

 

However I disagreed with TXG's original "nothing excuses" remark. While I agree with the sentiment that this never ever should have happened, it does beg the question. If the aforementioned kid is banging someone's head on a sidewalk, then shooting does become excusable, whether the person getting their head banged should have been there, should have been armed, etc. or not. On the other hand and at the same time, if the headbanger thought he was acting in self-defense against the headbangee, what you have is a travesty. Either way in this particular case, nobody should have gotten shot or beat up, and nobody would have if the gun-toting community watch kid had kept his distance like he was told. 

M Aurelius was probably right.

If That Is All That Happened, You Are Right

(#278033)
M Scott Eiland's picture

That doesn't justify the manufacture of evidence to taint the investigation (and public perception) of what actually did happen, though--that can be condemned freely regardless of what actually happened on that street.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Enough dissembling

(#278083)
TXG1112's picture

Zimmerman. shot. an. unarmed. kid.

 

The cops let him go. There is no justification for what happened. None. The media circus merely serves a a distraction from this larger issue. The court of public opinion may be venting it's spleen, but doesn't actually have jurisdiction and therefore isn't germane.

--- I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered. My life is my own.

Unarmed Isn't Necessarily Dispositive

(#278094)
M Scott Eiland's picture

And as the McMartin case proved, the media circus can be a lot more than a distraction. In this case, circulating incorrect versions of the facts (like that Zimmerman was allegedly close to 100 pounds heavier than Martin, when the difference was closer to 20 pounds) has certainly affected how the case has been discussed here, and will help taint any potential jury pool.

If you're saying there is no way that things could have gone down that would justify a shooting here, you are mistaken. It would also be wrong to say that Zimmerman is certainly innocent of all wrongdoing.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

I'm going to ahead and just disagree with you here.

(#278097)
TXG1112's picture

Zimmerman got out of his car and chased down a kid and shot him. I don't really care why he did it or what his motivations were. Once Zimmerman got out of his car and chased Martin down all events thereafter are on his head. 

 

It's true that the media will make jury selection harder, however if there had been a proper investigation in the first place instead of a whitewash we wouldn't be here. None of the media reports will entered as evidence so that line of argument isn't meaningful.

--- I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered. My life is my own.

That's Fine

(#278106)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Of course, any potential juror who is honest about having that viewpoint will be dismissed for cause faster than you can say "voir dire," since the parts between "Zimmerman got out of his car" and "shot him" are based on stuff that there are widely varying accounts of (and the "chased down" part is inflammatory in the extreme in addition to being unproven). "On his head" is going to be an extraordinarily ill-fated prosecution strategy if evidence that Zimmerman actually broke the law is not forthcoming.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

you don't get to make up your own facts

(#278109)
TXG1112's picture

I'm not a Florida resident, so I don't have to worry about being in the jury pool. There are some basic facts that no one disputes. They know where he was shot and know that Zimmerman was in his car when he called 911.  All the events between "Zimmerman got out of his car" and "shot him" are irrelevant. You keep wanting to make this about the media, when the issue is that Zimmerman shouldn't have even been in a position where he needed to shoot someone. I will reiterate, there is no excuse for shooting an unarmed teenager walking home from the store. Everything else is smoke and nonsense in an attempt to justify why a kid who should be alive is dead.

--- I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered. My life is my own.

The Problem Is. . .

(#278129)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .that "irrelevant" is not the word that applies to the actual course of events between those two moments--"absolutely crucial to knowing if an actual crime took place" is more like it. To paraphrase Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr., the penal code of the state of Florida did not codify into law the rantings of Al Sharpton regarding race relations or the babbling of Rosie O'Donnell regarding personal firearms. While it is sad that any young man dies violently (even the idiot pirates in the video Traveler linked elsewhere in this open diary), saying over and over again that nothing would justify one dying regardless of circumstances is just not in accordance with reality.

As for the statement that media malpractice is irrelevant to the course of a prosecution in *Florida*. . .my response has to be sic transit gloria mundi.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

I will grant you this...

(#278153)
TXG1112's picture

Yes, the actual course of events will determine if the State can prove a crime occured, but that requires an investigation - which would not be happening without the national media attention. However, even if the State is unable to prove a crime took place beyond reasonable doubt, that does not absolve Zimmerman of moral culpability. He never should have even been in that situation.

--- I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered. My life is my own.

The trouble is, nobody was even going to check

(#278156)

whether a crime had been committed, until media pressure caused a whoopsie. 

M Aurelius was probably right.

The Problem With That Argument Is. . .

(#278159)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .that the now-notorious video documents that he was brought into a police station and questioned, meaning a group of professional police officers had the opportunity to observe his demeanor not long after the incident, and without the distortions of the media coverage coloring their observations. One can argue that they should have done more, or that the local DA should have called him in for another round of questioning without prompting, but it clearly isn't as if they found him standing over Martin's body, shrugged, and departed with a terse, "Have a good evening, citizen."

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

The cops did want to charge him

(#278161)
HankP's picture

the state DA called and told them not to.

I blame it all on the Internet

I've seen this bandied about

(#278191)

I've seen this bandied about and wondered about the evidence.  Who has said this?

Here you go

(#278194)
HankP's picture

link

I blame it all on the Internet

Well, that was a week ago

(#278196)

Well, that was a week ago before we learned the Zimmerman was actually NOT a white supremicist.  So, you know....  In all seriousness, this should be a wake up call to those who think laypeople shouldn't rush to conclusions about the need for a federal investigation.  The local cops saw the same things and it certainly left an impression them.

There's still somethings I'm not too certain were passed on

(#278206)
brutusettu's picture

A timeline of Martin talking on the phone while walking back.
A timeline of Zimmerman on the phone, a timeline of Zimmerman after he left the store.

I don't know if/how long Martin was on the phone with Zimmerman trailing him.

A timeline of Zimmerman's decision to follow Martin, and match that up with 911 calls, the end time of Martin's call and how long it would take to walk to where the shooting happened.
The shooting was more than a few seconds of walking from the road, there's still some room that Zimmerman had to make a running chase to get in position for the altercation.

Zimmerman wasn't tested for drugs/alcohol afaik, and the dude was talking like he was a bit tipsy on the 911 call, but for all I know, he normally talks like that.

-Zimmerman seems like he is a lot better shape that 1st reports, and not some-overweight cop wannabe.
-Martin isn't rail thin like earlier reports, but still not exactly well cut either.

"I’m to believe that North Korea is so dangerously unhinged that they would attack without warning – yet so meek and easily cowed that they will sit quietly and not retaliate when we start bombing them."

Major Kong

Karzai isn't happy with his people.

(#278050)
mmghosh's picture

[url=http://registan.net/index.php/2012/03/31/karzais-misdirection/]Joshua Foust[/url]<

[quote]President Karzai wants Afghans and the world to know that fleeing a faltering government and financial sector is cowardly. He doesn’t assuage the business community, nor put forward security and good governance plans that would ease their minds, but curses them.

There are a million things I could write about how that’s funny coming from a man who spent some time in exile himself, who keeps part of his family safely in the West, who heads a government staffed by the most dual-citizens this side of… actually, probably anywhere. Or why arguably more cash per GDP dollar leaves Afghanistan (often in government hands) than anywhere else. But what chafes is that for all the shady businessmen who may very well be trying to take the money and run, there are many, many more Afghans who simply want a better life for themselves and their families, and know that in no small part thanks to Karzai, Afghanistan faces a very bleak time ahead. Doing business in Afghanistan has never been easy; private security has now been effectively banned, and the government alternative is more expensive and of questionable quality. Even the poorest Afghans often pay five to tens times the nationally regulated fee in order to obtain a national ID, without which registering for school, receiving benefits, registering legal cases, or travelling is virtually impossible. To mock those who are leaving for something better is callous, even for him.

I suspect things in Kabul will still function over the next year or two as they have done for the last year or two; the end of 2014, however, looks set to go down like the New Year’s Eve scene from the Godfather II. No one I’ve spoken with, Afghan or foreign, expects Karzai to stay past then. It’s possible he may survive, in Afghanistan, past 2014. But not likely. [/quote]

Just stick it out for a couple of years, before doing a Ben Ali. Good on you, sir, well played.

no cathedral can be built if no community desires one

Who wrote this?

(#278058)

And what's he talking about?

"We live in an era where, a simple grass roots movement propelled by the discontented constituents of leaders, whom were entrusted with our safety, can and shall make a significant impact. Chief of Police Tooley blatantly lied. He attempted to appease the masses by stating that he was 'blindsided' by the media's release of this monster's attack on an innocent, homeless and peacekeeping bystander. It has already been revealed that Chief Tooley not only received an email petitioning his attention to the matter on behalf of the Seminole County Sheriffs Office, yet he was also provided with the video taped evidence of the attack and chose to do nothing but pass the buck in hope that the problem would simply go away. Mr. Hargrett's feeble attempt to patronize the public by stating that Lieutenant Collison did not receive any preferential treatment is nothing short of irritating and belittles our intelligence. There are only two possible explanations, either Lieutenant Collison's son received preferential treatment, or Sanford PD always neglects to [use] handcuffs and does not arrest assailants of innocent victims, neither of the two are acceptable, so clearly you are a liar Mr. Hargrett. I challenge you reading this to stand together and not 'simply go away' as Chief Tooley and his corrupt subordinates wish, but to have our voices heard and to hold accountable those whom let this atrocious attack pass unpunished until the media revealed it. This animal could have attacked anyone of us, our children or loved ones in his alcohol fueled rage. Chief Tooley has already proved his incompetence and willingness to lie to the public and 'circle the wagons' in order to protect his corrupt police officers. We must now be heard by his superiors, the Sanford City Mayor Elect, Jeff Triplett, the three continuing members of the City of Sanford City Commission and Commissioner Elect Mark McCarty will be conducting a Workshop and Open Forum on Saturday, January 8, 2011, from 10:00a.m. until approximately 1:00p.m., in the Railroad Depot Room, located on the 2nd Floor of Sanford CityHall, 300 North Park Avenue, Sanford, Florida. Please attend, voice your concern, and demand accountability from all whom participated in this illegal cover-up."

 

.

Divine Spinoza, forgive me. I have become a fool.

A grammatically challenged individual?

(#278059)
mmghosh's picture

About "everyone should get Glocks?"

no cathedral can be built if no community desires one

Hmm, no, that doesn't seem to be it.

(#278068)

And, in any case, everyone should get 1911 Colts.

I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.

Thanks for reminding me

(#278069)
aireachail's picture

of a recent Santorum quote:

 

From 50 feet with a 1911 Colt revolver, 14 shots, 14 on the target

 

A neat trick...on several levels!

Somebody is confused...

(#278071)

...but I can say from experience that you can be pretty accurate at 50 feet with a 1911, ahem, pistol. Of course, part of it depends on what you mean by "on the target".

 

I suppose Santorum could have just used two mags, but the gun nuts don't seem to be buying. I just googled the quote and one said:

 

That's like saying he owns a "Corvette sedan." It's just not a likely mistake.

 

I have to agree. Santorum is most likely full of BS. I wonder how many votes this cost him.

I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.

I dunno MA. 50 feet isn't that far.

(#278137)

'on the target' is a fair question but its not like he's claiming he was shooting bottlecaps at that distance.  Anyhoo, it seems pretty plausible that he just nutted up and said 'revolver' by mistake.  People do do that from time to time.

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

Wait a minute

(#278138)
brutusettu's picture

Santorum said he fired a Colt 1911 revolver?

literal lol.

Almost all of my gun knowledge is from [i]Weekday Wings[/i], movies, tv, video games, a super awesome book series my junior high library had, and even I wouldn't make that mistake w/o and epic lapse of judgement.

"MG42 rocket launcher, 2nd floor!!"

Maybe me and Rick should shoot a M79 machine gun at the old firing range.

"I’m to believe that North Korea is so dangerously unhinged that they would attack without warning – yet so meek and easily cowed that they will sit quietly and not retaliate when we start bombing them."

Major Kong

It's not that close either, for a handgun.

(#278165)

You need a minimum of proficiency to pop a soda can at that distance, which is about a 2.5" target. So if you hit 14 cans, or made a 3" group with 14 shots, at 50 feet, I'd say you have basic skills.

My only point is that people say the .45 is not accurate, and I am sure that's true at some level, but I think it's more accurate than the average hand holding it. Anyway, and to be sure I am no expert, I can't do any better with a 9. If anything, I've done worse, like everything is off slightly.

I think Santorum didn't "nut up". He fibbed. It's a really basic mistake and if you make it people at a shooting range will look at you as if you are a moron. He might have shot something, somebody handed to him, some time, but he has no idea what it was. It's not that I think knowledge of handguns is a prerequisite for high office. Rather I think the quote reveals that the guy is a fake even to his own conservative base.

I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.

I don't know why folks would say the .45 is not accurate

(#278169)

The round is perfectly fine.  Now there are 1911's and then there are 1911's.  I own both a mil-spec out of the box and a more modern version with some of the bells and whistles that have become fairly standard.  The differences between the two guns are astounding, the greatest by far being the sights.

Re: the Santorum nut-up.  Look, you're talking to a guy who took a rash of crap from his wife the other day because he called his daughter by his cat's name.  I find it easy enough to believe he flubbed rather than fibbed.  I'm not carrying water for the guy, the only time I want to see the words 'oval' and 'office' in this guy's future s when he's describing the seat of the toilette in his den.

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

Relatively loose tolerances...

(#278170)

The thing is meant to work under less than ideal conditions, with dirt, mud, heat, cold, etc., and 1911 American manufacturing technology. So it's a bit loose by design. That's the logic, anyway.

 

Maybe your cat and your daughter have similar names? I misname my daughters often enough. I don't think that's the same category of mistake.

 

I am not carrying water for his NRA constituency. I just think it's a revealing snippet. Maybe. I'll concede it's arguable.

I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.

Loose Tolerances and it is HEAVY, That's Why the .45....

(#278172)

 

..is considered inaccurate. It weighs a ton in your hand, it has a kick like a mule, very difficult, for me at least, to rapidly bring it back down on target for any kind of sustained firing.

 

My experience.

 

Traveller

I think the weight is good...

(#278187)

The thing feels anchored to the space-time continuum. The kick is less than a .38 revolver, or certainly not as sharp. I find it drops by itself soon enough, but maybe you needed/wanted to repeat faster?

I have never used the thing while being shot at, or even modestly under vague threat, or, for that matter, without ear protection, so I am not qualified to have an opinion on suitability for purpose. I've just done some shooting at the range with a variety of handguns and calibers, and for whatever reason, the 1911 handles to me like an old glove.

I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.

It's accurate enough for its intended purpose.

(#278184)
aireachail's picture

We'd qualify with it out to 25 yards back in the day, but most strings of fire were at 7 and 15. As with all autos, a major accuracy limiter is the fact that the sights are affixed to the slide, rather than the barrel. So sight alignment changes with every shot.

 

My remark about Santorum had more to do with his posturing, which is what you observed in your closing line. I couldn't care less whether a politician has ever owned or fired a firearm. But I do expect them be grown up enough that they don't have to make stuff up.

I was surprised how difficult shooting a handgun is

(#278177)

getting rounds on target anyway. I've only used a handgun a few times, all while I was in the military. My only frame of reference was shooting rifles, which if sitting or in the prone position is harder not to hit what you're aiming at then to be on target.

"We should not tie the hands of law enforcement in the effort to bring these terrorists to justice"- Leon E. Panetta

I Have Argued this With Police...(Me: Stop Killing People)

(#278178)

 

...there are hundreds of police shootings...many involve innocent people with not weapons, maybe a little crazy, just some place they shouldn't be.

 

I have been railing against this, saying the Police should go for wounding shot....especially for the unarmed (or, crazy woman with a knife).

 

The police tell me, "Trav, it's just like your military training, we shoot for the mass of the body...you don't have time and under the stress of the event to do what you are asking...and a bullet going wide might hit an innocent bystander."

 

I suppose so, but Sulla's prone firing position has brought this to mind...we did train, prone for firing range of course, but from the hip for jungle in fighting....and you do try and are trained to try to hit as much body mass as possible.

 

hummmmm

 

Traveller

Sulla, that's because you're not using the force

(#278185)

Next time you shoot a handgun try shooting at something small and 3d.  If you have to shoot a silhouette* target then put a color contrasted small mark on it dead center.  You'll likely see your shooting improve.   I know, a smaller target should be harder to hit so this seems counter-intuitive but it works for a lot of folks.

 

*paper not silhouette steel plate targets

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

OK, he probably is talking about arming the homeless

(#278073)
mmghosh's picture

against the privileged. If the said homeless person had been armed, he could have stood his ground (or cardboard box). And made the confrontation more interesting to an outsider.

Is arming the proletariat the new conservatism?

no cathedral can be built if no community desires one

Hmmm. My money's on

(#278063)
aireachail's picture

"not Chief Tooley"

 

 

+1 . nt

(#278064)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

Does it read like someone

(#278074)
brutusettu's picture

that will put the law in their own hands before putting their trust in the Sanford Police Department? That's the internetz take on that quote.

I'm still curious to know if Zimmerman normally talks in a way that makes him sound a little bit too drunk to drive. Alcohol fueled pursuit of suspects for hundreds of feet?

"I’m to believe that North Korea is so dangerously unhinged that they would attack without warning – yet so meek and easily cowed that they will sit quietly and not retaliate when we start bombing them."

Major Kong

Does it read like...

(#278117)

...some sort of "white supremacist?" Which has been the the MSM's relentless take on George Zimmerman? As you well know?

 

.

Divine Spinoza, forgive me. I have become a fool.

Nice straw man

(#278125)
HankP's picture

most people are just wondering why he wasn't arrested - and still hasn't been.

I blame it all on the Internet

Um, he was talking about a "peacekeeping bystander."

(#278134)
mmghosh's picture

-

no cathedral can be built if no community desires one

Am I in some sort of multiverse?

(#278130)
brutusettu's picture

Surely you jest.

"I’m to believe that North Korea is so dangerously unhinged that they would attack without warning – yet so meek and easily cowed that they will sit quietly and not retaliate when we start bombing them."

Major Kong

Just gotta say this

(#278091)
Bird Dog's picture

I haven't been around as much lately because I got totally immersed in Friday Night Lights. All five seasons are on Netflix. A phenomenally good series. Really well done. It should lasted another five years, or more. Seems to me that NBC dropped the ball on marketing.

 

 

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particula

Great series

(#278095)

The characters are nuanced and round. I watched The Good Wife recently which wasn't horrible, but all the characters were very boring compared to someone like:

 

[img=330x330]http://25.media.tumblr.com/PMWL5KIgshzo7itqHTpIqVfSo1_500.jpg[/img]

The longer any

(#278113)

series lasts the more likely the networks are to completely screw it up. I loved Friday Night Lights, but if it had to end I'm glad it ended while it was still great instead of stumbling on as a shadow of its former self like so many other shows.

A friend of mine called it

(#278114)

the best and most honest depiction of a marriage in television. Can't disagree.

"I don't want us to descend into a nation of bloggers." - Steve Jobs

Fun With Interacting Stories

(#278096)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Senator Boxer sponsors law to suspend passports of those with unpaid tax debts.

Warren Buffett's company owes back taxes going all the way back to 2002.

So, Senator--who gets to break the news to Buffett and his board members that their passports are going to be pulled?

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Romney: "Obama spent too much time at Harvard."

(#278103)

Obama spent the usual three years at Harvard Law. Romney spent four years at Harvard getting a joint JD/MBA. It's not the lie of omission so much as the breathtaking lack of respect for the intelligence of his audience.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN_q0VhbJZ4

M Aurelius was probably right.

Any time at Harvard is too much -nt

(#278104)

.

Why?

(#278122)

Nt

Why?

(#278133)
mmghosh's picture

-

no cathedral can be built if no community desires one

Harvard

(#278163)

It's a fine institution but greatly overrated.  

 

Despite educating approximately 0.1% of US college students, it's peculiarities get disproportionate attention with negative consequences for the rest of us.  Harvard does stuff like ban the ROTC or argue over absurd point of political correctness, while having low workloads and a fairly lavish operation, and due to the media circus about these things there's this idea that most institutions operate this way.  As a result there's a lot of hostility in state legislatures, which leads to funding cuts and heavier bureaucratic oversight.

 

I'd also say that too high a percentage of our federal judges and other high-level lawyers come from Harvard Law.  We have a Supreme Court that's out of touch and lacks intellectual and regional diversity.

 

Don't get me wromg - they're good,  arguably the best, but they're not ten times better than the average state flagship.

Dr. Keithy Unleashes His Master Plan!

(#278123)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Hmmm. Minions. It needs more minions. And lasers--*lots* of lasers.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

If You Like, I Have the 44 page Complaint as a PDF

(#278127)

 

 

...it seems to be very fact speicific...and I didn't and don't care enought to actually read it. I DL'd it on the premise that a good Complaint is always good to have at hand....but now I have it....pifft.

 

However, if you might want to know lots about the Keithy, I'll post it for you.

 

Best Wishes, Traveller

Please do!

(#278152)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

I'm more interested in the commercial ins and outs, anyway. I kind of figured he was going to wait a decent interval after MSNBC and then go elsewhere, so I found this whole side-show perplexing (unless he really thought this was his 'elsewhere'.)

The Oberman Complaint, Plus, I Want to See the Counter Suit

(#278173)

 

...all I have is the Complaint, but there was filed today a counter claim by Current TV, that should be the Dozy. I haven't seen it however.

 

http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk/tmz_documents/0405_Keith_Olbermann_...

 

Best Wishes, Traveller

This Would Be Great As A Bench Trial

(#278175)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Particularly if the judge is a tad snarky:

Judge: [looking at Olbermann] "When you went to work for Current, you had more than adequate notice that your ultimate boss was an egomaniacal @$$#ole who would probably react negatively to your routine antics. [Judge turns to the attorneys representing Current] Your client had more than adequate notice that Mr. Olbermann was an egomaniacal @$$#ole who had disrupted every workplace he had ever entered, leading to dismissal with extreme prejudice in each case. I find that all claims by both parties are barred by assumption of the risk. Parties will bear their own costs and legal fees. Get out of my f***ing courtroom. Next case!"

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

I Just Read a Couple orf Paragraphs for the Hell of it...

(#278176)

 

...it really is a nasty complaint. I presume that the Cross-Complaint will be equally provocative.

 

Interestingly, (Really!) for non-lawyers, I note the the Complaint by Oberman is Not Verified....meaning not signed by the Plaintiff under the penalty of perjury.

 

I generally Verify to force the other side to file a verified answer....but this may well just be a question of style.

 

Best Wishes, Traveller

Best Not to be a Somali Pirate (Video)

(#278128)

 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5e2_1333668975

You've got to wait 30 or so seconds before the trouble starts off to the right.

I will further note that the attacking skiff closes very fast on the tanker.

Best Wishes, Traveller

Memo to Traveller

(#278132)
mmghosh's picture

[url=http://blackpigliberationfront.com/?p=1546]today's Marxist revolutionaries[/url] are not what they used to be.

no cathedral can be built if no community desires one

*Scott Reads Sidebar And Blinks*

(#278135)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Ahem:

Our magazine presents posts organized by page, grouped by category, for easy navigation to explore grouped topics in an open discourse of what we call 'poetic terrorism'.
As a non-hierarchal collective for those interested in a new kind of autonomy, we seek a counter-point to oppressive ideas of all kinds; imposed cultural and moral judgements on lifestyle choice by bigots who should mind their own business and examine their own hypocrisies, religious zealots promoting division and hate, 'legal' invasions into privacy, and the handful of sociopaths reveling in financial oppression across the globe by government sanctioned corporate rule. These creeps are a minority promoting division and decay. We side with decent majority, both those simply trying to make it through these tormented times and those who stand up and shout j'accuse to the promoters and benefactors of the on-going state of deterioration and chronic state of near-collapse.
We will use Art, without definition, as sublime experimentation involving both the refusal to abandon itself to time as dominant, while situating itself within the rhythm of time's fragmentation where the adventure of experience and self-determination begin.
With an open provocative mapping, we have abandoned all predictable forms of easily crushed agitation and instead work, while enjoying ourselves, to create disturbing gestures and anonymous disruptions of domination, playing along the emancipatory cultural horizon of individual or collective choice.

There isn't enough mockery in the universe to respond appropriately to that. And somewhere out there is a language teacher who needs to be sued into bankruptcy for malpractice.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Oh, so you missed Comandante Vallejo, then.

(#278136)
mmghosh's picture

The [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/08/dilma-rousseff-100-women]Dilma Rousseff[/url] of the future.  And I wouldn't be so dismissive of efforts at dismantling the hierarchy (and erecting new and interesting ones).  As for [i]work, while enjoying ourselves[/i], that's my Holy Grail!

no cathedral can be built if no community desires one

May This Lumpenproletariat Express Passionada Por His....

(#278139)

 

....Communist brethren?

 

I adore Camila Vallejo and admire her struggle....I think that Marx would approve of me presenting the idea that Class Consciousness will be different in different epochs and different places with class struggle taking on different forms....21st century South America is not the same as 1850's Industrial England that gave rise to Marxist thought.

 

But the struggle is the same, the wickedness of the rich is the same, the accumulation of wealth without use is the same, as is the greed and spoilage of our natural habitat. The chains that bind the poor are woven in the dream factories and media centers across this vast world...they are currently voluntarily worn.

 

But the chains shall be thrown off and the righteous shall rise and the mighty brought low, the wealthy shall wander in a desolation with only their gold coin and gold bars to gnash their broken teeth on and the rest of the world will flourish and be joyous with the simple joys of honest dealing and justice towards all...

 

Forever and Ever,

 

Amen.

 

Traveller

I try to enjoy myself while...

(#278150)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

....creating disturbing gestures, too! I mean, mostly it's just by giving strangers the middle finger, but I figure it's the non-conformist anti-hierarchical thought that counts.

Please. I bet you create disturbing gestures all the time.

(#278151)

I know I do. Anyhow, that doesn't sound like the work of a language teacher. It sounds more like someone went to grad school and hasn't been out long enough. To be fair, if you hadn't noticed, we're living through a minor wave of popular revolutions unlike anything since the 60's, and such things are led off by naive amateurs almost by definition. Mocking their ineptitude, well, that was Marie Antoinette's approach. People thought Napoleon was a silly little Corsican too (and he was).

M Aurelius was probably right.

Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound...

(#278188)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

Wally Whyton

(#278874)

Wally Whyton was actually kind of an interesting guy. He had several hit albums from 1957 to 1960, and they were produced by a guy named George Martin.

Wally went on to host many children's programs in the U.K, one of which was called Tuesday Rendezvous. The Beatles made their second TV appearance (and first London appearance) on his show, performing "Love Me Do" and "P.S. I love you."

 

I don't know why this is in bold, but there it is.

They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist...
-- General John B. Sedgwick, 1864

Interesting, wombaticus

(#278884)

I still think it was an ill-advised album cover, however.

I agree!

(#278886)

nt

They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist...
-- General John B. Sedgwick, 1864