What does Goldberg want?
Like Megan McArdle I haven't read Jonah Goldberg's book nor do I plan to. My initial view when I heard of this book was that Goldberg wanted to emulate Coulter's and Hannity's success selling books loved by conservatives. But it appears he wants more than that, he wants to be considered a serious thinker like Bloom and "The Closing of the American Mind".
Thoughts? Is Goldberg really taking his book that seriously?
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References -
If a man who won three Purple Hearts fighting Communists in Vietnam can be turned into a coward and a Commie sympathizer in the public mind, I have no trouble believing that an excessive concern for civil rights and the rule of law will come to be defined as "fascism".
--The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.
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)Kerry did in fact repudiate his military service by very publicly throwing his medals away and then became a hippy. So it's not quite as cut and dried as all that.
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| parent )Kerry did not, in fact, repudiate his military service.
In any case, the swiftboating I remember had very little to do with the aftermath of the war, and everything to do with wild allegations (ranging from shooting teenagers in the back to exaggerating his wounds) from people who were not in a position to know those things.
--The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.
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| parent )Kerry didn't repudiate his service. Full Stop. There were other things he repudiated with that act. It is as cut and dried as all that.
--Me: We! -- Ali
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| parent )With the folks chanting, "Ho Chi Minh! Ho Chi Minh!/ NLF is gonna win!" you are in fact repudiating the cause you had previously fought for and thus fighting for that cause. "I was fighting against communism, but now I am a hippy" is about as cut and dried as you can get.
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| parent )it can be obtained by mixing differing quantities
of black and white.
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| parent )What did they know?
--Me: We! -- Ali
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| parent )And in spite of his subsequent hippiness, Kerry by serving with honor and distinction still showed ten times the sack that GW did in his pulling every possible string to make sure that he spent the war keeping the North Vietnamese Air Force out of Texas.
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| parent )we live in 'up is down' times.
This is all about a pundit whose pet president didn't turn out like he hoped he would.
Yeah, he's looking for some cable news success. Other than the cover of the book (which I think is a piece of great design) it's a piece of garbage.
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)The thing about the stupid and incompetent is that sometimes, they lack the intellect or competence to discern their stupidity or incompetence.
--It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.
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)I'd say "lazy and mendacious" rather than "stupid and incompetent." When he tries, he can actually be fairly perspicacious. It's just that he really hasn't for a while now.
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| parent )Ironic even.
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )...I called the election, and you didn't. And I'm gonna be up two bottles of liquor on tomsyl by November. And you'll still be pushing this meme.
I suppose I should be gracious and gently ignore it.
--It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.
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| parent )It's got some time to go yet in the incubator. Good news: the worm is growing. Think Cloverfield, PM.
--In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
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| parent )http://theforvm.org/diary/macallan/deja-vu-all-over-again
What's your sig say about that reality stuff?
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )The whole point of the exercise was about the exact numbers -- anybody could have predicted a Democratic pickup, but accuracy in how many or which races is what distinguished one pundit from another.
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| parent )Is that Mac returned asking if there was any interest in real debate.
--This place is my vacation.
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| parent )too well, in fact.
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )Put that broad brush down, you'll ruin the trim!
--Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
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| parent )“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )I wasn't trying to single you out, rather I was trying to highlight the very real limits to the "do we want to debate or snark" question. Even you, who came back explicitly to see if real debate was possible, can't stop from posting, well, what you posted.
It's a little like people who tell themselves that this year, yes, they will finally join the gym and go there twice a week when in reality they will only show up occasionally. Happiness sometimes is accepting things as they are and not as we wish them to be.
No doubt we have some good debates here but there's also a great love for snark and generalizations that make one's side look good. It's no crime to acknowledge that.
--This place is my vacation.
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| parent )With a couple of clarifications…
One, I didn't "come back" at all really. As I saw it, I stopped by as a guest and asked a specific question.
That question addressed whether there was enough genuine interest in creating a new venue for real debate. The conclusion I came to was that though there was some interest, I doubted it was enough to make the amount of effort and time required worthwhile. IOW, I think a lot of people would appreciate dining on the sausage, but not enough to share in the slaughtering and stuffing.
Frankly, I don't blame them… I don't want to do much of the slaughtering or stuffing either. I doubt it's worth it.
Let me further state, that as community sites go, this is probably as good as it gets. The pitfalls are inevitable and probably ultimately unavoidable.
The only reason I've stuck around this long was the invitation from some people I respect to see if things weren't pretty good around here. Rather than spend much time posting I've been reading threads and going back a bit in the archives.
No need to go all meta on this, or tell me I'm wrong. I just wanted to clarify that I had no intention or desire to change anything here.
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )that Macallan's entry into this thread might have been interpreted as a shot at PM.
What was all that about?
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| parent )You're cherry-picking regarding the quality of debate. And you're contributing to its lessening by engaging in a personal attack on another poster. Enuf.
--To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard
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| parent )I was going to say something about this. But you beat me to the punch.
What could I possibly add?
--God help the while, a bad world I say.
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| parent )You could make guesses as to my head size...?
--It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.
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| parent )It frightens the children.
--In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
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| parent )...of your head that worries me.
It is the pointiness.
--God help the while, a bad world I say.
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| parent )I suggest "It is not the size...
of your head that matters. It's how you use it."
Of course, there are many promising possibilities =P
--Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
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| parent )"Yes, PM - I admit it. I *do* worry about the size of your head. I mean, how on earth do you manage to squeeze it through doorways?"
But that would be such a blatant ripoff of Blackadder...
--God help the while, a bad world I say.
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| parent )and it wasn't me that raised it up, either. %^>
--In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
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| parent )- Login or register to post comments
| parent )That sounds an awful lot like....
Or never mind.
--To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard
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| parent ):)
--This place is my vacation.
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| parent )Given that you've thought a lot about fascism and current US politics
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| parent )I'm not paying that much for unabsorbent toilet paper.
--It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.
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| parent )Lord knows I never would have read anything by Eric Alterman or any other similarly demented lefty without it.
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| parent )posited that Goldberg is too dumb to realize how silly he sounds. Watching him on the Daily Show I tend to agree.
Goldberg always struck me as a conservative version of Maureen Dowd. He appears to see himself differently.
--This place is my vacation.
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| parent )