I hope you all have a great Memorial Day weekend.
Let's have a thought for those who aren't here to share it with us.
I hope you all have a great Memorial Day weekend.
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More problems for She Will Sioux
(#281206)This time the Boston Globe weighs in.
Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.
Wow
(#281208)Who would have thought that the venerable lefty institution The Boston Globe would be taken over by birthers?*
* closed-captioned to identify sarcasm for the benefit of the Sniper Grandmas of Hiroshima.
The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.
I'm shocked theres a lack of 1830's paper trail
(#281220)shocked I say.
"I’m to believe that North Korea is so dangerously unhinged that they would attack without warning – yet so meek and easily cowed that they will sit quietly and not retaliate when we start bombing them."
Major Kong
Yet surprisingly, still, no one gives a f(*k nt
(#281221).
I blame it all on the Internet
Happy Memorial Day Weekend to everyone
(#281218)Hope y'all find some time to relax and enjoy friends and/or family.
Thanks catchy
(#281226)I'm planning on spending my time finding even more excuses for Obama!
But since my daughter is having a Rocky Horror movie party and the house is filled with 17 and 18 year old girls in fishnet stockings and bustiers, it may take me a little bit longer than I planned.
I blame it all on the Internet
Glad you can have good parties at your place!
(#281228)Sounds like you're running the right kind of household to me.
Spent the last week watching
(#281403)the complete run of Prime Suspect (British, not the American "re-imagining") with the wife. Grim, but really good.
Is Gay Marriage
(#281219)A social issue that Democrats are using to manipulate the left while pushing economic injustice?
David Sirota says Democrats are adopting the tactics of the right: http://www.salon.com/2012/05/25/democrats_gay_marriage_excuse/
It's Been Evolving Since the Collapse of the USSR
(#281387)Because both parties are fronting more or less the same moneyed constituencies (both depend on finance while the GOP gets more of its non-finance take from resource extractors, while the Dems get theirs from Tech/Media*), both parties are more less blocked from tackling economic ... insecurity**.
David Graeber (Debt: The First 5,000 Years) wrote a terrific article in the recent Baffler ("Of Flying Cars and the Declining Rate of Profit"; paywall, sorry. Subscribe!) arguing*** that the absence of progressive hope and imagination ("let's build flying cars") is due to the collapse of the USSR****. Without a competent ideological foe, late capitalism does not need to promise the future and has settled on tweaks to the consumer economy and cheap foreign labor instead of robot factories on the moon.
We can see that same lack of imagination in a stilted political discussion that leaves economics out of the debate.
-----------------
*No data. Just a guess based on media consumption.
**The Left calls it economic injustice, but given the obvious frustration felt both Left and Right voters feel, maybe a neutered term is better for discussion.
***A little glib on the "declining rate of profit" bit, however.
****For all its horrors, the Soviet System was certainly imaginative. They got to space first, after all. And Ekranoplanes.
I think there are other factors
(#281404)the incredible development of the computer industry over the past 30+ years has sucked a lot of oxygen out of other research areas, not to mention that areas like physics and astronomy have become far more expensive. I also think off-shoring manufacturing hasn't helped, you have a lot fewer people in various engineering fields (wit the exceptions of IT and petroleum), people like that have been a big source of innovation in the past.
I blame it all on the Internet
All true...
(#281407)...yet investment in space is kind of difficult to sell culturally. I know that whenever I spend more than a minute or two talking about the subject with friends or family, eyes start rolling.
I don't think this is a problem with capitalism. It's something else. Not quite sure what. I think expansion into space is so obvious it's a disappointment that so many people fail to see it.
So when a guy like Elon Musk comes along, the interviewer doesn't understand his motivation. Musk is talking about insuring the survival of the species and sustainable transportation, but the reporter keeps talking about capitalism. Musk is using capitalism as a tool, which is what it really is, but his objective is to solve important problems.
I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.
I don't think it's hard to sell culturally
(#281408)it's hard to sell financially. Capitalism causes investment in order to receive financial returns (or if not strictly measurable financially, something that will aid in financial returns). Manned space flight offers no such returns at this time. And the more computers and robotics advance, the more difficult it will be to get a reasonable return on capital.
I blame it all on the Internet
Even unmanned is well below potential...
(#281419)And in any case, it's easy enough for humanity to divert trillions to wars that have no, or negative, return on investment, not to mention heartache.
Don't underestimate the role of culture. Big thinking is dead, or nearly so, these days.
I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.
He Addresses This
(#281421)In the period discussed, research dollars poured into two areas -- computers and medicine -- that offered late capitalism efficiency improvements in the back office and logistics, and richer consumer markets. These are not the stuff of dreams.
The first also had a couple of perverse follow on effects (from the POV of the 99%); it made off-shoring possible and provides an infrastructure for deeper social control.
The article is not without its problems. Graeber clings to the Labor Theory of Value to underpin most of it (efficiency leads to declining margins; labor adds value. Capitalists therefore prefer cheap labor to robot factories), but doesn't spend many words explaining why he thinks a mostly discredited bit of Marx is worthwhile ("for various techincal reasons," he writes).
The Baffler is Thomas Frank's rag. Totally worth the price of admission.
The surrogate who thought he was independent
(#281262)First, this...
Cory Booker is a likeable, effective politician, but was recently upbraided by his party for displaying too much candor.
Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.
A catchy correction
(#281270)recently upbraided by his party for [s]displaying too much candor[/s] toadying up to his wealthy donors rather than his political party's leadership.
Huh
(#281279)The mayor of a third-tier city has wealthy donors? Who knew. Or did Booker siphon off a percentage from Mr. Facebook?
Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.
Huh
(#281280)Who'd guess that a mayor on a national news program might have aspirations beyond being mayor of a 3rd tier city.
And what better way to advance that in the US than to suck up to monied interests, regardless of whether those interests align or conflict with the public good?
I don't think any advanced math is required here.
Eh
(#281285)So you have no facts about whether or not or Booker has wealthy Wall Street donors, or who such donors are. He criticized Obama, and that's good enough for you and Hank. The dKos storyline must prevail. Carry on, then.
Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.
Oh for dog's sake
(#281286)there's evidence all across the internet. Like I said, if you knew anything about the NYC area, it would be no surprise that Jersey pols (R and D) get tons of donations from Wall St.
I blame it all on the Internet
Like I said
(#281288)The storyline must prevail. He criticized the Obama campaiign, so his career must suffer. That's what happens to traitors to the party. But thanks for link. I'm glad someone was able to back up what they said.
Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.
This is just silly
(#281291)especially coming from a Republican. Because we know Republicans handle insufficient purity within their own party well.
Secondly, what's you evidence that Boooker's career has suffered? Because people say bad things about him? Welcome to politics.
I blame it all on the Internet
Funny
(#281306)Because McCain was called a "maverick" for bucking party leadership, then started the Straight Talk Express and became the GOP nominee. Booker did a maverick thing, and now the Kossacks are calling him a traitor and calling for the end of his career.
Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.
That is funny
(#281324)because he started the "Straight Talk Express" in 2000 and got his ass handed to him. He hasn't been so mavericky since then.
I blame it all on the Internet
It would help you in this argument
(#281281)if you realized that all the big wall street firms moved their back office operations to Jersey City and Newark back in the 80s. Oh sorry, actually the opposite of help.
I blame it all on the Internet
On the way to weirding modules
(#281264)Obscure Dune reference. Sound waves increase water-boiling efficiency by 17% (link).
Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.
Finally
(#281271)Merkel's grip on Germany is starting to loosen. http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/27/us-germany-merkel-poll-idUSBRE84Q07Q20120527:
An eight percentage point lead by Merkel's Christian Democrats (CDU/CSU) over the centre-left Social Democrats (SPD) fell to just two points during a week that saw the chancellor face pressure over the euro crisis and domestic turmoil, according to the Emnid poll.
She's been able to weather her deep mismanagement of the Eurozone only b/c she's charted one course for Germany and another for every other country. It couldn't last, but the problem is that the Eurozone could already be split up by the time a September election in Germany would allow for Hollande and an SPD alternative to turn around the Titanic.
The Eurozone is already in a recession and has been heading in slo mo, in plain and obvious site to everyone, toward a repeat of 2007-08 for at least the past 9 months with no adjustment by the leadership. Merkel can't leave soon enough.
I Am, as a Rule, Against Police Killing Civilians...However...
(#281278)...there are exceptions to ever rule.
A Miami police officer shot a naked man to death after he wouldn’t stop eating another naked man’s face on the MacArthur Causeway, authorities say.
The survivor, who police think may have been homeless and was lying down when attacked, was taken to the hospital with critical injuries, according to the Miami Herald — whose building was next door to the scene of the crime and whose surveillance cameras showed the officer shooting the suspect on Saturday.
Police sources told CBS Miami that the victim had virtually no face and was unrecognizable.
The Miami Herald’s police sources recounted that a road ranger saw the man chewing on the other man’s face and ordered him to back off over a loudspeaker, and that another police officer soon approached the unidentified attacker.
“The officer, who has not been identified, approached and, seeing what was happening, also ordered the naked man to back away,” the Herald reported. “When he continued the assault, the officer shot him, police sources said. The attacker failed to stop after being shot, forcing the officer to continue firing. Witnesses said they heard at least a half dozen shots.”
Raised Eyebrows, Traveller
Miami?
(#281282)Well, now we know who the villain in season 8 of Dexter is going to be.
The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.
Jeez Trav
(#281287)I'm against police killing people too, but I'm pretty sure face eating is a few steps over the line for just about anybody.
I blame it all on the Internet
I Wonder If They Hesitated. . .
(#281290). . .because they thought the victim was (or might be) already dead. I suspect that if the victim had turned out to already be dead when the police shot him, some Stephen Yagman type would be suing on behalf of the cannibal's family before the body was cold--a lawsuit could still happen, though the odds of prevailing would be a couple of orders of magnitude lower (and should result in sanctions and outright disbarment for any attorney who dared file it).
The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.
I'd say it's wrong...prima facie. -nt-
(#281292).
M Aurelius was probably right.
Yagman has been Disbarred...The Story was so Zombie-ish
(#281293)...I suspect that serious drugs were involved.
On November 22, 2010, Yagman was disbarred, based on June 22, 2007 federal convictions for one count each of tax evasion and bankruptcy fraud, and 11 counts of money laundering.[7]
Best Wishes, Traveller
I Know
(#281297)That's why I said "Stephen Yagman type." I've never forgiven the SOB for this (the fact that his side went down in flames notwithstanding), so I took notice (and no small amount of glee) in his Waterloo.
The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.
Cheeky nt
(#281294).
I blame it all on the Internet
He was mugged.
(#281295)nt
In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome.
Did he keep a stiff upper lip? nt
(#281296).
I blame it all on the Internet
Bad jokes, guys....
(#281307)... ridiculous on the face of them!
I couldn't en-visage anythng less tastefull
(#281330)/nt
You could say he had a nose for trouble nt
(#281335).
I blame it all on the Internet
Irritating Follow-Up
(#281313)Looking at various comments sections on items regarding the naked cannibal (and am I alone in being appalled that a new meme has been created here?), the "why didn't you tranquilize and/or pull him off the other guy bodily?" idiots are out in force. Fortunately for them, karma will probably not exact the appropriate penalty of having a face-eater working them over someday, with only cops armed with tranquilizers and/or high school wrestling skills available to interrupt the feast.
The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.
Why couldn't they pull him off?
(#281331)Seems like a reasonable question to me.
We expect our officers
(#281336)to exercise restraint and take personal risks on our behalf, but asking them to wrestle naked face-eating cannibals is above and beyond the call of duty.
Seriously, there was an assault in progress in which the victim was already gravely injured, and the next bite could have been a major artery. I'm normally very skeptical of police shootings but not when there's basically a murder/maiming in progress right in front of them.
Well, truth is no doubt the first casualty of face eating
(#281337)cannibal nudists but from this:
[quote]
The Miami Herald’s police sources recounted that a road ranger saw the man chewing on the other man’s face and ordered him to back off over a loudspeaker, and that another police officer soon approached the unidentified attacker.
“The officer, who has not been identified, approached and, seeing what was happening, also ordered the naked man to back away,” the Herald reported. “When he continued the assault, the officer shot him, police sources said. The attacker failed to stop after being shot, forcing the officer to continue firing. Witnesses said they heard at least a half dozen shots.”
[/quote]
seems they were in no hurry. Running over and night sticking or pepper spraying the guy might have taken less time. Looks to me like a procedure was followed. Order - warning - shot - execution. Maybe it was the best thing but I think the question is legitimate. I would prefer people like this be tried and the circumstances around the incident be investigated. Found guilty and condemed to life in prison is a harsher punishment in my mind.
They Waited Too Long As It Was
(#281340)A suspect in the course of using lethal force on a helpless person ignored a warning to stop what they were doing. That should have been all the warning the freak was entitled to. Firing once and waiting to see if it worked was a concession to mercy.
The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.
Five or six shots didn't stop the guy...taser might have
(#281343)worked better.
M Aurelius was probably right.
And It Might Not Have
(#281344)If tasers were completely reliable, the Rodney King riots would never have happened, as the beatings were precipitated by tasers failing to stop King. And it was the first shot that didn't work--five or six did the trick nicely.
The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.
Actually no,
(#281345)the guy continued gnawing away even with several bullets in him. If the argument is "time is of the essence" then shooting wasn't fast enough.
M Aurelius was probably right.
There's a lot of 'if' there.
(#281347)I'm generally inclined to give a lot of leeway in extreme situations. I'm also sure there is nothinccg in the book covering 'nekkid crazy man eating another man's face's. The reasons the shooting went down like it did is too open to speculation ranging from the cop just being a bad shot to that inexplicable stuff that never seems to happen in ballistics gelatin.
In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome.
I Already Said That
(#281348)The cop should have emptied his gun after the first warning, and I'm not sure where you're seeing that the guy was still moving after five or six bullets--both linked pieces only stated that the first shot didn't do the job.
The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.
Correction
(#281341)I called him a "naked face-eating cannibal", when I should have said "naked face-eating supercannibal that keeps gnawing after being shot repeatedly". It's enough to make you believe in zombies, or at least realize how the legend might have got started. George Romero's next project might be a reality show set in Miami.
Police overreaction is a serious problem, and there might have been a different way to handle this one. OTOH I can think of a lot of cases less justifiable than this one, at least if the facts are really as the police stated them. There does appear to be a guy minus face in the hospital so at least part of the story is backed up. Perhaps it was one of those consensual face eatings, if he pulls through and has enough lip function left he can tell his side of the story.
Interestingly, I Have a Police Captain Friend, Sits on Review...
(#281346)...Boards for police shootings...and he disagrees with me and most of the opinions here.
Hummmm
I have to deal with these types of questions. Note : this scrutiny would only occur if it were a member of our Department - any others, we would see if it passed Penal Law muster and move on ...)
Tha first and foremost question question to be asked is whether there were any other alternates to deadly physical force ?
Did the officer have a Taser, chemical mace, or nightstick available?
He used the most extreme deadly force on an obviously unarmed person who was perpetrating an unarmed attack on another ....
Consider how difficult the shot was and how much it endangered the victim ... how long was the shot?
- A taser (mandated to be carried by front line patrol supervisors) might have been effective and spared human life ....
- Chemical mace (mandated to be carried by all) might have been effective ...
- An old fashioned coca-bola nightstick or new-fangled extending baton combined with a Hank Arron swing might have been very effective ...
These kind of internal doubts would not be publically expressed
His final opinion....don't shoot.
It has been noted that this good friendship has been sorely tested because of what I see as his reflexive defense of the police and my unstinting, fierce criticism of the police...which is sometimes, I confess, unfair and colored by liberal angst.
Which, I suppose, goes to show that smart people can make their own decisions.
And friendships can transcend even the most profound political differences...if the people are good, decent, going in.
Best Wishes, Traveller
PS. the above has been edited to remove any hint of where this Gentleman might be.
Teeth Are A Deadly Weapon On A Helpless Target
(#281349)With respect to your friend, this comes off as Monday Morning quarterbacking--particularly since he admits that even in his own department any criticism would be kept internal. If they're not willing to make the criticism public, that's a tacit admission that they're willing to defend the conduct in public.
The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.
WRT My Friend, What Stands Out is His...Honesty...
(#281350)...he is telling us deep stuff within himself and within the Department.
This is always...Cool.
And appreciated.
Shows self insight too.
Best Wishes, Traveller
I don't think so
(#281352)he knows what the actual police training and procedures are (which I don't know and I doubt anyone here knows either), so he's qualified to judge whether they followed their training and procedures.
I blame it all on the Internet
Makes you wonder how animal control officers
(#281355)get through the day without shooting everything they see.
M Aurelius was probably right.
They Don't Usually Encounter. . .
(#281357). . .a dog eating someone's face, and when they do I'm pretty sure they don't wring their hands about using lethal force if it is available. And actually, it is pretty common for a good portion of the public reaction to a wild animal being shot in a residential neighborhood to be, "Why didn't they tranquilize the poor dear?" The poor dear usually being a large, dangerous animal that can kill a human being. Those people are idiots, too.
The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.
I really don't understand this desire to use lethal force
(#281359)just because it's allowed or understandable doesn't mean it's the optimum way to resolve a situation.
I blame it all on the Internet
I Really Don't Understand The Handwringing Over It
(#281360)When a cop tells you to stop directing lethal force at a helpless human being, do it or die. It's not complicated, and it's a good lesson for anyone else who might consider disobeying a cop in that situation. Since there's no legitimate reason for not complying, arguing against the logical consequences of not complying is asinine.
The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.
Who's handwringing?
(#281361)Asking if there were alternative actions available isn't handwringing. Automatically assuming that cops are always correct in their actions is rather authoritarian and not supported by the history of these kinds of events.
I blame it all on the Internet
The desire to use the maximum force available
(#281373)is the hallmark of an amateur more concerned about appearing too pansy to do the job than actually doing the job. Fear plus incompetence plus egoism can be a lethal mix.
There are around 300,000 cases of vicious dog attacks severe enough to require ER treatment every year; there are only several hundred to a few thousand dog shootings per year (and most of those shootings are by police officers not trained in animal capture). Tens of thousands of vicious, dangerous animals per year are captured by chemicals and/or the old rope-and-pole. As far as imminent danger goes, if you're within 10 paces of a large, vicious dog, it doesn't get much more imminent than that.
M Aurelius was probably right.
If it had been
(#281381)a vicious dog chewing someone's face the proper response would be to shoot the dog immediately, and to kill it even if it did stop after the first shot, and if it ran off to hunt it down and kill it without any process or discretion. The reason for the (relatively) low number of shootings is that discharging firearms is considered dangerous and disruptive so whenever possible you kill the dog in a safe humane way someplace where it won't upset people. It has nothing to do with respecting the dog's right to life. I hope you don't imagine that a dog taken to the pound after maiming someone is given a trial and then sent for rehabilitation at a reform school.
But the more important point is that this wasn't about a police "pansy" worried about his own safety*. It was about protecting the victim. Tearing flesh off people puts their life in immediate danger, each rip or bite decreases the chance of survival, and every protection given to the attacker's life is at the expense of the victim's.
*Assuming, of course, that the story is as presented. Of course there should be an inquiry, officers are no less prone than anyone else to lie when they need to.
"Justified" isn't the same thing as "necessary,"
(#281385)and yes while most states & municipalities make it legal to shoot a dog who is clearly a threat or is actively attacking humans or livestock, animal control officers still tend to prefer "chemical capture" and other nonlethal techniques.
I haven't said anything about an animal's "right to life," just reporting what the professionals consider to be best practices: nonlethal capture is preferred to shooting, even in the case of vicious animals.
With regard to the face-eater, a boot to the head sounds like it would have ended the attack *more* quickly than shooting, so again if we're talking about saving the victim's life, the best possible solution is not necessarily the most lethal solution.
M Aurelius was probably right.
Oh all right
(#281392)let's admit that neither of us has had anti-faciovore training, or even general anti-cannibal training.
In general I'm no more interested in encouraging head kicking by the authorities than I am shootings or SWATings. Giving them lots and lots of harmful-but-sublethal options has unintended consequences. They got the taser, and it appears to have increased tasings a lot more than it decreased shootings.
Problems get kept in house
(#281358)pointing out that there cops are not crossing the "thin blue line" I don't know what exactly that's supposed to show.
A person in a cop car can go 100 down the highway out of that squad car's jurisdiction and have the local cops get irate that some "hotshot cop" would pull that squad car over.
"I’m to believe that North Korea is so dangerously unhinged that they would attack without warning – yet so meek and easily cowed that they will sit quietly and not retaliate when we start bombing them."
Major Kong
Trav, I'd have to ask him what his opinion would be...
(#281362)...if it was a fellow cop getting his face eaten by a nekkid nut job. I don't know your friend and have no reason or wish to question his integrity but I am curious if the standard he supplies applies to either side of the thin blue line.
In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome.
But it wasn't a cop getting attacked
(#281365)so I'm not sure how your question would change anything.
I blame it all on the Internet
I Think he Was Clearly & Fully Ambiguious in His Writing...
(#281366)...I see him often as a black or white person, but, here he clearly demonstrates a feel for nuance and real world living.
Nothing wrong in being capable of being smart.
(the sentence above is written as I wish it to be written with all the awkwardness I intend...raised eyebrows)
Best Wishes, Traveller
Of tough cases and bad law.
(#281370)The fact that he was naked and eating the guy (or so we are told) shocks us into wanting him executed now. Like we swat at the mosquito (and miss).
By the logic being used by posters here (imminent danger of death) every punch-up should be broken up by the cops by shooting the attacker repeatedly. A single punch can kill or permanently maim. A fall to the sidewalk, concrete to the back of the head. I have seen such a case and read of many more.
I just don't think that questioning the response should be off limits. Maybe it was a good call maybe it was not.
You have a point
(#281382)but it's about probabilities. Most punch-ups don't result in a death. If most fistfights did in fact result in death/maiming then yes, rapidly escalating to shooting after a single warning would be a reasonable thing to do.
If we had a large data set of many face-eatings and found they usually didn't result in fatality or permanent disability, then by all means, we should instruct officers not to shoot future faciophagic attackers unless they've tried lesser means to stop them. In the absence of such a data set, I'd say "large hunks of flesh missing" is evidence of something serious.
Again, the argument here only applies if the police story is the real one. Of course the police will always claim life was in danger after a shooting, the investigators' job is to see if that was true.
There are all sorts of mights and maybes
(#281384)when it comes to physical altercations but there wasn't in this case. The nut was in the act of maiming an apparently helpless victim, no 'maybes' about it. Maiming rises to the level of justifying lethal force if you consider maiming to be serious bodily harm (I do).
I keep seeing 'Questioning the response...'. I think we should always question the use of lethal force but if it took six bullets to stop the guy I'm not at all clear what force could have been applied, and was available, that would have been more incapacitating but less lethal.
In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome.
Boot to the head?
(#281386)Forcible restraint/chokehold? Nightstick? Tire iron?
There are plenty of imaginable solutions that might be quicker than 9mm slugs to someone whose nervous system evidently wasn't going to "shock" from the impact of getting shot.
M Aurelius was probably right.
I dunno, man.
(#281389)We're not guessing (though we are assuming the info is accurate) it took six rounds to finally stop the dude. Using enough force to incapacitate but not enough to kill, on a guy who took six rounds to stop, is a hell of a needle we're asking a guy to thread. Think about it, if you could know in advance that you'd face a guy who shrugged off five shots and somebody said 'Try kicking him in the head.' you'd think they were as crazy as the face eater.
In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome.
Before the 1st round was fired
(#281393)apparently the only things tried were verbal commands.
Pretty rapid escalation don't you think?
"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias
For the circumstances? No.
(#281397)When we have more facts I'm perfectly open to examining and weighing them accordingly. The facts we have now are that five rounds from a handgun weren't enough, requiring the sixth shot to stop the assault*. I think we can assume that any other weapon employed would have to be used with such force and placement that for all intents and purposes they would be considered lethal strikes as well. The cop could have escalated more gradually but not without placing himself or the victim at further risk than I think was warranted for the sake of preserving the health of the loon.
* and it's not like the guy said 'Ouch! G@dd@mn!' and ran away, he went back to his lunch, assuming the story is true as told.
In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome.
Supposition
(#281410)Based on hindsight
The 1st shot, would still appear to have been a huge escalation. Absent hindsight & assuming one was available, might a tazer have been a more effective response?
"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias
By the time you get to "tire iron"
(#281390)one starts to suspect it's just guns you object to, rather than a desire to keep the suspect alive for a fair trial.
I don't object to anything,
(#281391)just pointing out that deadly force isn't always called for, and many professionals do & have gotten by without it.
M Aurelius was probably right.
Once you get over the ick factor
(#281394)of naked + cannibal 'm not sure which I'd prefer - one more hard punch to the face or one more bite to the face. Probably the bite. I think it would be less potentially lethal. But disclaimer - I've never been bitten by doods, even ones with their clothes on.
Should we infer that you have been bitten by a girl?
(#281395)possibly even a naked one?
"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias
Not since pre school.
(#281396):)
Afghanistan: No change
(#281311)Or, actually, too much change.
This reminds of the quote about Vietnam: "We don't have twelve years experience in Vietnam. We have one year's experience twelve times over."
Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.
I Have To Disagree With Patton Here
(#281314)It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather, we should thank God that such men lived. -- George Patton
There's no reason not to do both.
The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.
On killing computers and killing ambassadors
(#281317)On computers:
On ambassadors:
Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.
Next thing you know
(#281329)they'll come after our scientist and let Howard Dean and others make money advocating for a terrorist group.
"I’m to believe that North Korea is so dangerously unhinged that they would attack without warning – yet so meek and easily cowed that they will sit quietly and not retaliate when we start bombing them."
Major Kong
*face palm*
(#281318)Metta World Peace wishes us all a "Happy Labor Day":
[IMG]http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn311/eilandesq/485682_10150824704341006_7331091005_9872008_573465658_n.jpg[/IMG]
Whatever medication he's on, he needs more of it.
The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.
One of those days when
(#281338)I'm ashamed to be a Texan.
This 17-year old girl's parents deserted the family, leaving her to support her siblings on her own. Texas judge puts her in jail for missing school despite good grades and dual enrollment.
On The Other Hand. . .
(#281339). . ."missed school to feed her family and was punished for it by a tool of a judge" is more of a resume item than a black mark on her record, and I have the feeling that judge will be profoundly regretting his decision the next time he faces the electorate. I suspect a lot of people will be wanting to give her a job.
The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.
It turns out
(#281342)early voting for the primary is under way and the final vote is tomorrow. Be interesting to see if this makes a difference.
Interesting thing I noticed this weekend
(#281351)several of the TV channels are running war/military movies over the three day holiday. As far as I can tell, virtually all the movies they chose were about WWII*. This despite the fact that there are several movies that portray soldiers very favorably in Korea (Pork Chop Hill), Vietnam (The Green Berets), Somalia (Black Hawk Down), and Iraq (The Hurt Locker, The Messenger).
I wonder if WWII is moving from history to myth in our culture. The last war we can all agree was fought for just reasons and without violating what we claim are our principals.
*I saw one showing of The Green Berets (Vietnam) early Sunday morning, The Steel Helmet (Korea) Sunday afternoon, Sergeant York (WWI) Sunday night and Heartbreak Ridge (ha, Grenada) Sunday afternoon. Still, the vast majority of the films were about WWII - 18 on TCM and 11 on AMC, plus all the ones I saw on other channels.
I blame it all on the Internet
Why Mr Gore lost in Florida 2000, beautifully written
(#281367)by [url=http://www.amazon.com/The-Swamp-Everglades-Politics-Paradise/dp/0743251059/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top]Michael Grunwald in The Swamp[/url], specifically because Florida's environmentalists did not vote for him, but rather voted for Mr Nader. And how that decision affected all of us. Utterly fascinating. 12 years later, how incredibly bizarre that decision seems!
Having spent several days in the Everglades [an environment strikingly similar to our own], the wholesale, thorough and remarkably efficient destruction of the Everglades ecosystem over the past 100 years is an amazing demonstration of the collective power of American enterprise. An excellent book, highly recommended, especially to anyone touring.
literally anything can become right or wrong if the dominant class of the moment so wills it
The end of the Heartland Institute?
(#281371)A good deed by corporate America.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/may/20/heartland-institute-fu...
literally anything can become right or wrong if the dominant class of the moment so wills it
They'll be back
(#281411)grifters like that never go away until they get convicted of something.
I blame it all on the Internet
Mitt and the Birthers
(#281414)I know, cool band name. But Mitt is out raising money with his #1 fan (and gold plated a$$hole) Donald Trump, Trump is repeating his birther lies, and Mitt is happy for the support. A real profile in courage.
I blame it all on the Internet
The Obvious Choice
(#281444)There was a question posted on a 2012 Olympics Facebook site, asking what we would like to see for the Opening Ceremonies of the 2012 London Summer Olympic Games. My answer: "To see Sir Roger Bannister light the flame in the Olympic Stadium":
Sir Roger is British to the core, but he belongs to the world (but not yet to the ages, for which we can be grateful). Hard to think of anyone better to conclude the torch relay.
The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.