US to leave Iraq by end of 2011
From the AP:
The security deal is to govern the status of the more than 140,000-strong U.S. military force after the U.N. Security Council mandate for its mission expires at the end of this year.
Also from the article:
As the talks dragged on, American officials said the Bush administration was losing patience with the Iraqis. Bush stood by al-Maliki when Washington's Sunni Arab allies were privately urging he be replaced because of the government's ties to Shiite-dominated Iran and Shiite militia attacks on Iraqi Sunnis.
How can this be? How could the US "replace" the elected leader of a sovereign country?
So it looks like the difference between Obama and McCain on Iraq comes down to 16 vs. 32 months for the withdrawal of all US troops. Unless, of course, McCain decides to ignore the treaty and stay in Iraq until we achieve victory.
How will this affect the race? Will it help Obama, since Bush and the Iraqis have adopted a modified version of his position? Or will it help McCain, since no matter who gets elected we'll be out of there by 2012? I can see it going either way.
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References -

From Iraq Updates. A pullout by 2011 doesn't seem logical, in the sense that Mr al-Maliki's government is far from being stable yet, and there would seem to be too many US and Israeli interests tied up in Iraq. The necessity for internationally enforceable immunity to prosecution for war crimes for US troops also needs to be firmly cemented in place.
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)When were Israeli troops in Iraq? What kind of deal did Israel hammer out with al Maliki?
On the troop withdrawals, combat brigades may very well stay in Iraq past 2011 because the withdrawals are conditions based:
"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent )US policy in the broad sense.
Come on, BD. It is definitely in the Israeli interest to have a weakened Iraq that is not militarily capable of supporting any Palestinian faction of any significance. And a US withdrawal would increase the possibility of a strengthened Iraq inimical to Israel.
I'm reasonably sure that reasons will be found to stay on post 2012.
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| parent )They've built up a working relationship with Turkey, and they had a substantial presence among the Kurds, still do. See, when the Ba'ath Party made Zionism a crime punished by death, all the Jews of Iraq ran straight for Israel. At one time, there were more Jews in Baghdad than anywhere except perhaps London.
Israeli aircraft are putting in at Iraqi airports, though both sides deny it. Iraq has no beef with Israel.
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| parent )the US leaves ?.
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| parent )These are timetables for withdrawal and now McCain has nothing to beat him over the head with.
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)Dr. iRack is one of the better sources on the SoFA and Memorandum of Understanding, and his take is mixed. June 2009 is a key date because the Sons of Iraq will be absorbed into the Iraqi government by that time, and U.S. combat forces will be out of Iraqi cities. How al Maliki handles the Sunnis is an open question, but he's been dragging his feet so far.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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)via USA Today:
"We have agreed that some goals, some aspirational timetables for how that might unfold, are well worth having in such an agreement," Rice told reporters after meeting with Iraqi officials, including the prime minister. The two sides had come together on a draft agreement earlier this week and Rice made an unannounced visit to Baghdad to press officials there to endorse it.
OMG!! She said timetables!
[Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar] Zebari, asked about fears expressed by neighboring countries over such a pact, said in Arabic: "This decision (agreement) is a sovereign one and Iran and other neighboring countries have the right to ask for clarifications. ... There are clear articles (that) say that Iraq will not be used as a launching pad for any aggressive acts against neighboring countries and we already did clarify this."
Hmmm. I can't imagine McCain will be too happy about this.
"We're not sitting here talking about an agreement to try to get out of a bad situation," Rice said, asserting that the draft "builds on the success we have had in the last year. This agreement is based on success."
Ha. In the immortal words of one of the last sane Republicans, "the U.S. should declare victory and bring the troops home".
--I blame it all on the Internet
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)Last week, the Times reported that a tentative deal was reached, and there's a lot of overlap between their reporting and the WSJ's. The Times also have this:
Sounds to me like the withdrawals would be based on the conditions on the ground, but you and I won't know for sure until more information comes out on the deal.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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)Did you notice that slander on the mighty 'Surge'?
As hoped it will be the Iraqis not the WH or Petraeus who decide just how much 'help' they need going forward. That's the dynamic Obama hoped to achieve and he made it happen even before taking office. Bush-McCain not so much.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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| parent )So was I slandering the surge strategy when I said it should get at least partial credit? That Obama achieved anything re Iraq is pure fantasyland spin. The people who achieved real results are our soldiers and the Iraqi people, not some politician who would rather remove all combat brigades on an arbitrary timetable, regardless of the circumstances.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent )Facts not in evidence.
Also the Maliki administration and now the Bush administration largely agree with Obama's proposal on the need for withdrawal tied to a timetable. By the way, it's aspirational now not arbitrary and that's official.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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| parent )was to be out by March of 08.
--"Making sure your tires are properly inflated, simple thing, but we could save all the oil that they're talking about getting off drilling, if everybody was just inflating their tires and getting regular tune-ups. You could actually save just as much." Ob
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| parent )At about the same time Obama broached his original proposal for withdrawal, McCain was going walkabout in Baghdad's Bab al-Sharqi market accompanied by “100 American soldiers, with three Blackhawk helicopters, and two Apache gunships overhead” in order to reassure folks back home that there “are neighborhoods in Baghdad where you and I could walk through those neighborhoods, today.”
Things have moved on since then.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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| parent )McCain's security detail in Iraq is irrelevant. At the time, McCain supported the strategy that turned things around. Obama's "plan" was full-scale cut and run in as short as eleven months, which he later bumped to 16.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent )helped turned things around, but not full-scale cut and run. McCain's security detail is very relevant to the impression he and Graham were trying to make on the folks back home, essentially so.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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| parent )Hmmm? Because that's exactly what the Surge turned into, BD. Our combat troops are a major irritant, hideously counterproductive. Just my opinion, of course, but let's face facts here: the Americans had no respect for the Iraqis, and have none now. What's more, all those Friendly Iraqis you see on the streets are just as friendly to the militias when they come along. They just want the militias to go the hell away.
The US military is only one more militia on the streets of Iraq. That's the way we're seen. The Strongest Tribe. But we don't live in that country and never will. So why are we staying? It is plain idiocy to keep anyone in Iraq who doesn't speak Arabic.
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| parent )but the simple fact is that if we had followed Obama's original plan, he would have never been able to visit Iraq this summer.
In fact, if I might be so bold, Obama wouldn't even be the nominee if Americans were concerned about domestic terror attacks.
--"Making sure your tires are properly inflated, simple thing, but we could save all the oil that they're talking about getting off drilling, if everybody was just inflating their tires and getting regular tune-ups. You could actually save just as much." Ob
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| parent )I guess that would be the logical conclusion to any withdrawal if you accept the premise that "we are fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here". But perhaps you seriously overestimate how many poor confused souls actually still believe that nonsense.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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| parent )But it won't make you right, though: or your comment any less a non sequitur!
What does "concern about domestic terror attacks" have to do with a planned withdrawal of US troops from Iraq? Or is this just another iteration of that stale old "terror threat" meme?
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| parent )to base their arguments on. So I predict Iraq and foreign affairs in general will be a wash, Obama's judgment having established his credibility as a potential CIC and proven despite the experience gap, that he is at least the equal of McCain on the world stage .
Time to move on to what should be more fertile ground for Obama in Stage 2 of the campaign and address the issues of greatest concern to the electorate. The economy, health care and an energy/environmental policy. McCain and the GOP lose big on those issues as long as Obama can keep the electorate focused on the issues and not dragged off into the weeds by joining McCain's negative campaigning binge centered around 'character' issues.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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)They lie like rugs about the evils of timelines, call them something else (table for withdrawal) and then claim that we will have peace in our time. LINK
Angry John McCain said as much this week: LINK
I wonder when McCain is going to attack the arbitrary
timelinestable for withdrawal that Condi Rice is in currently negotiating.This kind of sh!t is the number one reason we need a Democrat in the White House. The Democrats certainly aren't perfect but right, wrong or otherwise, you will at least get an honest debate from the Democrats. The Republicans only care about spin. It is sickening.
--But she's a queen, and such are queens
that your laughter is sucked in their brains. -D. Bowie
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)Kagan wrote his piece at a time when Iraq experienced one its most violent months, and Democrats wanted arbitrary timelines for troop withdrawals, basically codifying that everything was lost and we needed to tuck tail home. Tell me how the GOP is lying about wanting withdrawals to be based on conditions on the ground.
McCain favors withdrawals based on conditions on the ground, and we don't know enough about the deal (at least in the WSJ) to know for sure, but the Times reported last week that the drawdowns would be scheduled, provided that violence remains low.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent )...and it doesn't have any basis in reality. That is why it is a lie. The Democrats were also talking about a scheduled draw down of troops based on clearly defined goals to be achieved by the Iraqis. Instead of addressing that reasonable position, Bush & Co. claimed the Democrats only wanted arbitrary timelines and attacked them on that basis.
This is from 2005: LINK
That was a fairly typical position for the Dems. Maybe you, Bush & the Republicans disagree with that position but it isn't an "arbitrary timeline".
We have never had an honest discussion about Iraq.
(on an unrelated note:
I didn't enjoy ratting you out to the mods. If, at any time, you want to call me a moron please feel free to e-mail me at blueneponset at yahoo dot com. Or better yet, call me a cattle rustler instead of a moron. I'll understand what you really mean, accuse you of being a bigger cattle rustler, and then we can continue to disagree about politics without anyone getting a stern talking too from the mods or a suspension.)
--But she's a queen, and such are queens
that your laughter is sucked in their brains. -D. Bowie
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| parent )...regardless of the situation on the ground, of course they're arbitrary. Obama's Iraq De-Escalation Act of 2007 is the epitome of arbitrary, and of declaring all is lost when Iraq was at its worst.
Kerry's problem was that he was more fixated on troop withdrawals than anything else in Iraq, which is also Obama's problem. Kerry offered no other "solutions", and neither has Obama.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent )if I hear McCain spout this "return with victory and honor" BS I'll have to slap my tv. The scary thing is he might even believe this nonsense.
--Over here on E Street, we're proud to support Obama for President. - Bruce Springsteen
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| parent )Let's put honor and all that aside, for the moment. The US presence is quite different now than once it was: Sgt. Pain is a fine drill instructor, and his lessons are not soon forgotten.
We will leave, and somewhat sooner than this agreement shows. Iraq wants to buy our arms and goods and services, they will prove a useful client state. American interests would be best served if the USA paid the price to keep things stable while that infrastructure comes in. This new civilian army of occupation will bind us to Iraq in ways we can't begin to imagine now. It's the reason we'll never go to war with China or Russia, regardless of what these countries do. Cynically, we will recoup the billions spent on this war. More idealistically, if Iraq becomes a sound market-based economy, it already has a free press and free elections, we will have created something truly useful in the Muslim world, something more closely resembling Turkey.
Yes, I'd withdraw most of our combat brigades, and soon. They are only an irritant. But I wouldn't abandon Iraq to its fate: not when they could pay for our occupation.
We cannot withdraw without considering the implications of Iran in this mix. If I wanted to break the back of Iran's leadership, I'd gradually lift the embargo while removing our troops from Iraq. Iran is ripe for a revolution.
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| parent )I like that, it made me smile.
--"Making sure your tires are properly inflated, simple thing, but we could save all the oil that they're talking about getting off drilling, if everybody was just inflating their tires and getting regular tune-ups. You could actually save just as much." Ob
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| parent )I'm not for a full withdrawl. I agree with everything you say. My problem is the simplistic language used by McCain. "Victory and honor" my a$$.
--Over here on E Street, we're proud to support Obama for President. - Bruce Springsteen
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| parent )What is life without a strong component of accomplishment?..i.e. victory over the obstacles between us and our goals.
What value do you have if you are not true to a set of high principles?...i.e honor
Without honor and the courage to achieve victory we become pliable cogs in a system easily gamed by the pros on Madison Ave. Yes, "victory and honor" may be simple to say, but it is exceedingly difficult to live by.
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| parent )if it just takes a few words to get you excited then McCains message was aimed at you.
--Over here on E Street, we're proud to support Obama for President. - Bruce Springsteen
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| parent )Rather surprising to hear that a few words are not important from a blogger
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| parent )Unless of course he's already moved on to Iran. Or Korea. Or Georgia.
From Josh Marshall:
Let's see how long it takes for folks to start talking opening about this particular truth. I'm guessing it won't be long. The fawning media will ignore it. And then they won't.
No matter how it happens, someone needs to shine a light on Senator Strangelove, and fast. Max Bergmann concurs:
To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard
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)nt
--"Making sure your tires are properly inflated, simple thing, but we could save all the oil that they're talking about getting off drilling, if everybody was just inflating their tires and getting regular tune-ups. You could actually save just as much." Ob
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| parent )