Damn It Feels Good to be a Monday Open Thread

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Take the Duncan Black A*hole Test

(#282297)

A*hole Test

I think a reasonable test of whether someone is an a*hole without any hope of improvement is if you sit them down and explain that:

 

1) People without the legal right to live and work in this country often bring their kids here with them.

 

2) Those kids are often quite young when they arrive. You know, babies.

 

3) Such kids also are undocumented.

 

4) In many cases they grow up not or barely speaking the language of their home countries, depending on their age and particular circumstances.

 

5) Given whole lack of documentation thing, most of these kids have never been to the country that their parents came from and don't know any of the family, if any, that are still there.

 

6) Upon becoming adults, their work and educational opportunities are complicated and limited.

 

If the person's response is, "they're illegal, deport them," then you know you've found an a*hole.

M Aurelius was probably right.

I love how Duncan Black always boils it down

(#282303)

Blame Everybody Else, Especially The Poor And Powerless

Cameron blames "the eurozone" for his horrible policies. German banks blame Greece for forcing them to lend them all that money. And everybody knows the root of the problem is lazy poor people.

That is one hell of a skill.

And the root of the problem is greedy rich people?

(#282336)
mmghosh's picture

You'll never live down the revelation of your plutocratic uncle!

There's one moral blind spot here.

(#282324)

No one wants to punish the blameless kids for their own sake.  A better life for one's kids is a powerful incentive to do almost anything, including crossing a border illegally.  It's not hard to argue at least a rational basis for removing that incentive if you really really want to stop brown people from getting into the country.

I don't agree with this reasoning, for both economic and moral reasons.  But I'd rather criticize the position as cruel and ignorant rather than A-holish.

The "moral hazard" argument to giving immigrant kids a break

(#282333)

would hold more water if Obama was proposing a new rule that current illegal immigrants could count in 16 years hence. That isn't the deal here, and I don't believe anyone is proposing creating a rule where *if* you bring your kids *and* they grow up here then they get a free pass. 

 

This is more a one-time solution for a current backlog of immigration cases, hoping Congress gets its butt in gear and works on immigration reform in the new term.

M Aurelius was probably right.

Good point.

(#282388)

Of course, it still applies if the parents were expecting or at least hoping for better treatment for their kids at the time they decided to cross.  Who knows.

If They Keep Making Exceptions. . .

(#282488)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .illegals will never believe it when the US government says "this time, then never again." The only way to stop it is to at least stand firm on not allowing non-constitutionally required granting of citizenship for anyone who is here illegally, regardless of circumstances. Green cards are another matter, but should still be confined to "no fault" cases as far as illegals are concerned.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

"Regardless of circumstances."

(#282493)

So basically turn a blind eye to the plight of hundreds of thousands of "illegals" who have no legitimate residency/citizenship anywhere else. That isn't pragmatic, it isn't particularly moral, I'd find the legality at least questionable, and it damn sure isn't a political winner. I can't, for the life of me, figure out why you think it's a good idea to go the route of "let God sort em out."

M Aurelius was probably right.

So Much Fisking To Do, So Little Time

(#282500)
M Scott Eiland's picture

--the first sentence is demonstrably and unquestionably false--they are citizens of the country their parents removed them from;

--granting them legal residence rather than citizenship is quite pragmatic, thoroughly moral, and only under principles taught at the Hiroshiman Sniper Grandma Law Academy would it be considered possibly illegal. As for the political angle, the total indifference to Obama's action in the polls suggests that you are wrong;

--granting a status other than full citizenship is not "let God sort them out"; rather, it gives them a status in the law without giving anyone an incentive to try to steal citizenship rights for their children. The current state of the law allows for far too much of that already.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Total indifference

(#282501)
HankP's picture

Legal residence is a bandaid solution

(#282513)

and it opens up the door to creating a semi-permanent, involuntary population of 2nd class citizens.

they are citizens of the country their parents removed them from

Yes, those that can document their citizenship. I guess it's "regardless of circumstances" for the rest.

M Aurelius was probably right.

Sorry. . .

(#282516)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .but not interested in further maiming the ability of the US to control its own right of citizenship by cringing at a parade of horribles (particularly without proof that *any* of the 800,000 would have any problem establishing their nationality--much less a significant #). Your arguments that it would somehow be unthinkable that foreign nationals be stopped from stealing American citizenship for their children by crossing the border illegally were unpersuasive enough--I'm certainly not willing to take the argument one step further than the Constitution requires. They'll take the green cards and like it.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Yes, the dire consequences of

(#282517)

[insert slippery slope fallacy] make doing the right thing a clear & present danger to the republic.

M Aurelius was probably right.

Not A Fallacy

(#282518)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Reagan said "never again" to amnesty after he signed the bill--and a majority of the public intends to hold them to it. No means no.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Again,

(#282519)

no demonstrated threat from granting citizenship to honest, productive people put into a legal quandary by third parties.

M Aurelius was probably right.

And Again. . .

(#282522)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .no persuasive argument why those people should go ahead of the millions of other honest, productive people whose parents didn't commit a crime to try to cheat the system. If they want to accept a green card and wait in line with those other people, I've got no problem with that. Incentivizing criminal conduct in order to steal votes for the Democratic Party is not acceptable to me--particularly when pitched in the tones of self-righteous, legally inept nonsense.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

So it's damage to the Republican Party that you're worried

(#282524)

about. Whew, for a minute there I thought you were in the grip of a seriously delusional phobia. 

 

These people we're talking about committed no crime. (Not in our system of laws at any rate: I understand that your theory of law endorses collective punishment and attainder of blood, but that's your problem.) They represent no threat to the *country*, and in fact they represent plenty of advantages. To the country. I'm afraid modern-day Republicans lose either way.

M Aurelius was probably right.

Funny how the word "steal" keeps coming up

(#282525)
HankP's picture

as if just by being here they're taking something away from Americans. When of course it's much closer to the opposite being true.

I blame it all on the Internet

Denying American Citizenship Is Not A Punishment

(#282528)
M Scott Eiland's picture

It is treating them like everyone else. Arguing otherwise is the fallacy. Again, by what right do they demand to be advantaged over others who seek to immigrate legally?

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

By what right.

(#282541)

By involuntary squatter's right. By virtue of the fact that, through no choice of their own, they have grown up and lived and worked in this country, obeyed the laws, been productive members of society. They've paid dues (along with, probably, taxes). 

 

They aren't "advantaged" over adults from other countries seeking to emigrate. They aren't "like everyone else." That's a fallacy. If these people were "like" every other immigrant, we wouldn't be talking about them, ffs. They are *dis*advantaged under every would-be immigrant who currently has clear citizenship & residency. They are collateral damage of a global economy combined with pre-global nationalization laws...a global economy that this country benefits from immensely. Think of them as refugees from communist revolutionary governments, if it helps. And unlike most refugees, they are already productive members of a society which currently takes more from them than it gives in return.

 

So that's my side. Your side is...a mistaken reading of misapplied law, a slippery slope fallacy, and still absolutely no evidence of harm or potential harm to the US or its interests.

M Aurelius was probably right.

No Such Thing

(#282554)
M Scott Eiland's picture

"Squatters Rights" only exist to the extent that they are recognized by positive law (in this case, the Fourteenth Amendment). As the argument about how awful it would be to send them back to their home country applies, they've already gained by a heavily increased standard of living and educational level by being brought to this country--and *all* illegals (and tourists) pay taxes, so there's no f***ing way I'm opening up that slippery slope any more. You still haven't provided any evidence that they'd have any real problem establishing residency in their country of origin--come back with the (very much smaller) subset that would and start the discussion of possible remedies over.

The harm--to the system of allowing foreign nationals to legally immigrate following the rules, with the possible goal of naturalization--has been stated repeatedly, intentionally deaf comments ignoring that notwithstanding. That system is just inconvenient for Democrats trying to manufacture votes, so they're subverting it.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

The harm --

(#282565)

to the system of allowing foreign nationals to immigrate following the rules

has been stated repeatedly, but it has not been demonstrated. Facts not in evidence, counselor. What you have here is a specious quid ergo quo assertion that grievous harm would befall the country and its laws by allowing people who a) did not break any of our laws, b) are de facto naturalized in this country, c) are productive members of society to join millions of applicants with similar qualifications, but whose legal status hasn't been jeopardized by technicalities beyond their control.

 

We don't punish people for crimes they themselves did not commit. Closing the citizenship door on people who in all *other* respects would be legitimate & welcome candidates because of choices made on their behalf before their age of majority *is* a form of punishment. Again, you've stated before that you're cool with collective punishment, but the US legal system isn't.

 

Also again, I'm sorry that your party has painted itself into a demographic corner, but that really is your problem and not something BCIS or resident aliens should be concerned with.

M Aurelius was probably right.

The Harm Involved To Making These Foreign Nationals. . .

(#282594)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .follow the same rules as everyone else has been asserted repeatedly, but supported by zero evidence, unless mislabeling following current law as "punishment" and garbled extrapolations of US law count (pro tip: they don't). If the Democratic Party can win over 100% of those who follow the rules and are naturalized, more power to them--you just aren't getting the ones who didn't.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Frankly, more harm is done by harassing them:

(#282596)

Just ask the average farmer in Georgia.

"I've been on food stamps and welfare.  Anybody help me out?  No!" Craig T. Nelson (6/2/2009)

And Reagan's amnesty destroyed American civilization

(#282523)
HankP's picture

oh wait,I guess it didn't.

I blame it all on the Internet

Non-Sequitur, Right On Schedule

(#282529)
M Scott Eiland's picture

And like all the other arguments here, bereft of a justification for advantaging these children over those who followed the rules.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

So you admit there were no ill effects from the amnesty

(#282532)
HankP's picture

just some sense of "fairness" (which I thought was a Democratic trait that Republicans hate) is offended.

I blame it all on the Internet

Another Non-Sequitur

(#282534)
M Scott Eiland's picture

How sadly unsurprising.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

You can't answer. I understand. nt

(#282536)
HankP's picture

.

I blame it all on the Internet

I Have Answered--You Just Don't Like The Answer

(#282592)
M Scott Eiland's picture

But thanks for another "third trimester abortions are cool!" quality argument--it's nice to know I can always find one when I need a good laugh.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

He'd Certainly Be The Expert On A**holes, Being A Prominent One

(#282530)
M Scott Eiland's picture

And if that person's response is "put them in the line for naturalization ahead of those who followed the rules," then you know you've found a Democrat scrounging for votes.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Ginsberg drops a hint on Obamacare?

(#282300)

Speaking to the American Constitution Society, she predicts a number of sharply divided rulings as the court releases opinions on some of the most controversial cases on its docket. Decisions on 15 cases , including Obamacare and Arizona's "Show Me Your Papers!" law, are due this month.

 

Predicting "sharp disagreement," she made a broccoli joke about the issue of severability, and then she went on to point out the importance and utility of dissenting opinions for informing legislation and the like. Uh oh. I played a fair number of games of connect-the-dots as a kid, and by squinting at her remarks I can just make out the following picture: The Court will rule against the individual mandate 5-4, but severability is still being decided. There will of course be dissenting opinions, but these will have no impact on the ruling. Ginsberg can view dissents as guidance to fixing the health care law, but of course we all know that guidance will be roundly ignored by legislators on both sides of the aisle.

M Aurelius was probably right.

Call me a cock-eyed optimist

(#282302)

But I think Kennedy is going to uphold, and Roberts will grumble under his breath and come along for the ride.

"I don't want us to descend into a nation of bloggers." - Steve Jobs

You're a dirty cock-eyed optimist

(#282305)

I say a 5-4 severed mandate at best, maybe even the whole thing gets tossed.

 

But then I believe Obama is probably going to lose the election, so everyone knows I'm a pessimist.

But...

(#282306)

But then I believe Obama is probably going to lose the election, so everyone knows I'm a pessimist.

 

But if he actually does lose, you will be a laser-sharp realist instead.

I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.

More realism

(#282311)

Don't forget, close elections go to Republicans. As FL shows, they're much less shy about stealing the 2012 election than they were about (probably) stealing 2000 and 2004.

 

So if people think it's going to be a very tight election, that means Republicans have a huge advantage. 

JFK, LBJ, and Al Franken Say "Hi"

(#282314)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Republicans can win close elections if they keep an eye on Democratic shenanigans and can stop them in the act. That's not always doable, though the whining from Democrats when they manage it can be expected to continue for decades.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Does kicking several thousand citizens off of voter rolls

(#282317)

have anything to do with Democrat shenanigans? Would listening to right wing radio help me understand how that works?

M Aurelius was probably right.

Just the dead ones

(#282320)

and do please keep in mind that PA, under a Dem administration, 'misplaced' a goodly number of absentee ballots a few years back.  I'll take news that I was booted off the registered voter rolls 6 months before an election over an apology 6 days after one any day of the week.

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

I don't know about PA

(#282321)

I haven't read anything about vote tampering by Democrats that is as credible as reports about the GOP in FL in 2000 and OH in 2004. In general, I see one side playing to win.

I see both sides playing to win.

(#282326)

I stand corrected on the 'misplaced', the ballots in PA were sent out too late to be returned for the election.  Philly has had some interesting vote counting, more ballots cast than eligible voters, that sort of thing.  Look, if you think you guys don't play this game as well, I don't know what to tell you.

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

This was a close presidential election recently?

(#282328)

Just curious.

Within your lifetime that a Dem lost is the standard, right?

(#282330)

It was 2004.

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

Ugh there's even a case covered by your alma mater

(#282329)

It's a PDF.  The stink to this one is the game playing by this same admin 6 months earlier with the primaries.

 

http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/docs/Reitz/amicus.pdf

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

My google fu didn't turn up anything but this brief

(#282332)

Court papers, which are filed often during elections, aren't very informative as to the scope of the issue.

 

Compare that to Hitchens analysis on Ohio in 2004: http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2005/03/hitchens200503

 

I've simply never read anything like this about Ds.

Catchy, here's an article from the Allentown paper

(#282369)

What the article totally fails to note is that the ballots were sent out late anyway and couldn't possibly have been returned in time.  Being a simple data point may not mean much, but as I got mine the day before election day and I wasn't even overseas, I felt mightily ripped off.  Why papers didn't mention that absentee ballots for a cohort that favored Bush went out 3 weeks late, a move that ensured they wouldn't be in by election day, is something to ponder.

http://articles.mcall.com/2004-10-23/news/3575922_1_tuesday-s-election-d...

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

Thanks, Darth - did not know about this

(#282378)

The scope of this is very unclear, tho I have no trouble believing there were shenanigans.

 

As a worst case scenario several thousands of absentee ballots were sent out so late that they could not reasonably be returned in time. That's much less than the anomalies Hitchens documented, which taken together were in the six figure, not four figure range.

 

But it's highly unclear this is a worst case scenario, and the scope shouldn't be that hard to figure out. Just compare the PA rates of military absentee votes to some Republican controlled state. You apparently suspect that the fact that no one's done is to be a sign of liberal media bias. If I had to guess I'd say it's b/c there wasn't a big story here. 

 

Catchy, there wasn't a big story on...

(#282392)

...election day +1, the ballots wouldn't have changed the outcome IIRC*.  But that wasn't known before the election and polling data showed a 4-1 favor for Bush among service personnel from PA.  This was as dirty an act of voter suppression by Democrats as anything Republicans are being accused of.

*I don't suspect liberal media bias in the lack of coverage after the fact, I very strongly suspect it 3-6 weeks before the election where the media 1) didn't cover this well enough, 2) where the media did cover it the story was "Nothing to see here".

 

 

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

Fox would have been on it

(#282407)

..like white on rice, if there was anything to it. And we would STILL be hearing about it.

Color me unimpressed with the 'both sides do it' premise.

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

Of course you're unimpressed

(#282414)

It's your side that did it.  Can't have those white hats tarnished with a little bit of fact now can we.

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

Unless you have evidence

(#282427)

of the Democratic PARTY attempting to disenfranchise military votes on a par with the organized disenfranchisement being perpetrated by the GOP, of which evidence abounds in plain sight. Then no, i'm not impressed with your recounting of isolated incidents such as the one you have offered in the attempt to claim 'both sides do it'.

Both sides don't do it, on anything like the scale or in the coordinated & nationaly organized manner in which the current GOP pursues it's goal of reducing the tally of likely Democratic voters.

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

We don't know if there were any significant # of late ballots

(#282408)

As I say it would be easy enough to find out - just compare military absentee vote rates in states with R governors to PA.

 

In the absence of the comparison, for all I know, we're talking about 20 ballots here, worst case scenario thousands. 

 

Again, contrast that with the credible evidence collected and analysed in the Hitchens piece.

 

I still say a close election highly favors the GOP.

 

 

The Democratic Party in my lifetime

(#282318)

has lost two close and recent presidential elections with significant evidence of Republicans tipping the scales.

 

Now the GOP is basically telegraphing their intent to do whatever it takes in certain swing states.

 

I can't comment on presidential elections from more than 40 yrs. ago.

 

I don't believe I'm being partisan in stating what seems to me an objective truth - the GOP in 2012 has a significant advantage if the presidential election is close.  

I missed all those news stories

(#282323)

where the Franken people were trying to suppress Republican turnout.  Or get illegal immigrants to vote or whatever.  "Landslide Lyndon" was a mockery of his primary victory in Texas, not the general.  JFK both the popular and the electoral college outside the margin of error.

 

There is no symmetry here.  Democrats try to gain electoral advantage by increasing turnout and making it easier to vote.  Republicans are slippery as eels when prodded for evidence of systematic fraud ("well, it could happen") and scoff at actual statistics of seniors and college kids without state ID.  I don't supposed it occurred to Republican strategists to actually appeal to the semi-motivated or poorly-documented for their votes.  Easier just to spread rumors about 50s-era Chicago League of Deceased Voters and ram fundamentally illegal and constitutionally inexcusable voter ID laws through the states.

 

It's disgusting.  The term "undermine" is wildly overused in politics, but is justified in this case.  Discriminatory voter ID laws and biased eligibility standards undermine confidence in Democracy.  Every ugly incident makes it more likely a losing candidate will one day cross the Rubicon.

In mid-twentieth-century Texas

(#282384)

The Democratic primary was the general, for all intents and purposes.  It wasn't until the Civil Rights Act and the Southern Strategy that Republicans even had a chance in a Texas general election.  The real contest was always the Democratic primary.

True, but

(#282387)

they were still run by the parties.  It took major court battles to get even non-discriminatory rules into the primaries.  Primary rules are much looser, don't pretend to be completely democratic and don't actually elect anyone.  There is no "franchise" (right to vote) in a primary; the party by in large makes its own rules.

Not that what LBJ did was OK, but we're talking about direct subversion of democratic principles by public officials here.  And as you point out, it was also a long time ago.

My scientific personal polling of 1st generation

(#282334)
mmghosh's picture

Asian American immigrants in the past month has convinced me that Mr Obama cannot lose in November, no way.  Wager, catchy, Bernard?

 

We drove through these parts of the US.

 

First, the “undervote” by county in the recent Pennsylvania Democratic Presidential primary. The numbers in each county represent the proportion of voters in a Democratic primary who selected “no candidate” rather than vote for the incumbent, Barack Obama.

 

 

Now, the distribution map of the Marcellus Shale

 

 

a third map shows the locations of active drilling wells in the Keystone State:

 

They don't do that

(#282304)

No justice is going to drop hints about upcoming rulings, at least not intentionally. I wouldn't try to read anything into this. 

Well she's talking & joking about Obamacare in public,

(#282309)

I didn't know they'd even go that far. Anyways speculating irresponsibly about matters that are way above my pay grade, it's kinda what I do here.

M Aurelius was probably right.

At her age

(#282391)

she might have decided getting in jabs while she still can is worth losing a small bit of judicial dignity or mystique or whatever.

Nothing Is Still Being Decided At This Point. . .

(#282313)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .except the final wording on a few concurrences and/or dissents. Unless, of course, they have decided to hold the case over for reargument next term, in which case the large glob of fecal matter will hit a certain set of rapidly revolving blades with predictable results.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Hold over with a stay on implementing the law? Or no stay?

(#282315)

I wouldn't mind getting a chance to reargue the "broccoli test," with someone who has a grasp of elementary logic & analogies next time.

M Aurelius was probably right.

Current Conditions, Presumably

(#282316)
M Scott Eiland's picture

And unlikely in general.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Good piece on the U.S. financial crisis...

(#282308)
Bird Dog's picture

...here.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particula

I look forward to you endorsing Elizabeth Warren

(#282310)

for the Senate seat in MA, since she has -- as much as or more than any politician on the national stage -- articulated all of these same points.

 

I know you know how important it is to have someone in the Senate who understands the crux of the financial crisis, the avoidance of which is federal-level politicians' top priority.

 

I'll send you some of Warren's materials so you can get involved. Please also send $ to Jeff Merkley's campaign in neighboring OR.

 

Can you name a single GOP candidate who agrees with even 4 of the 5 points you linked to?

neighboring?

(#282322)

Does your USA wrap around, like Pac-Man?

He's referring to the fact

(#282325)
HankP's picture

that BD lives in WA state.

I blame it all on the Internet

That would make visiting my gfriend in CA easier

(#282327)

But alas no, my USA takes two plane flights to cross every month - Hank has it right below.

 

Also, we know you were likely born in the late 60s or 70s if you're referencing PacMan, anonymous. You're tipping your hand on your identity here.

oops

(#282339)

I'll try to be more careful.

PacMan, don't forget the early 80's for that one

(#282350)
brutusettu's picture

n/t

"I’m to believe that North Korea is so dangerously unhinged that they would attack without warning – yet so meek and easily cowed that they will sit quietly and not retaliate when we start bombing them."

Major Kong

Who says I haven't read her materials?

(#282349)
Bird Dog's picture

She's a tax-and-spend liberal.

 

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particula

Is the difference between Warren's spending and her opponents

(#282354)

greater than the cost of bailing out the financial system and greater than the lost revenue to the US government due to the financial collapse?

 

Very doubtful.

 

I think arithmetic should be more important in setting your priorities than political slogans.

Warren had her issues with TARP,

(#282356)
Bird Dog's picture

as did Brown. The real difference between Brown and Warren is that Warren wants tax increases right now and Brown wants them later. Warren wants more government spending, Brown less so.

 

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particula

Not what I asked

(#282364)

In addition to the direct costs of bailing out the banks, the lost tax revenue to the government, we should add increased payouts of unemployment insurance and food stamps, etc. due to the finance-caused downturn.

 

Do the arithmetic. You can't have a low tax, small spending government that has to keep an unstable financial system and a greater economy that is harmed by that financial system afloat. 

 

Separately, I've heard Warren say several times that spending on Iraq and Afghanistan was very wasteful and that she opposes such spending. Are you sure she even explicitly advocates for total government spending levels that are greater than Scott Brown's (nevermind all the savings associated with actually fixing the financial system)?

 

Maybe I should send you some of her literature. 

 

 

On TARP,

(#282415)
Bird Dog's picture

Her opponent supported TARP, more or less. My bad. From a quick Google search, it sounded like he favored TARP, but his website shows that he opposed it. That's a knock against him. But then again, Warren was a TARP critic despite her position on that TARP panel, even though TARP turned out to be a resounding success.

On spending, national security is the only department where she specifically called for spending cuts. Brown wants to hold the line spending.

As for my endorsement, I'm not endorsing either candidate. For one, I don't live there. For another, I don't particularly like either candidate.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particula

Hahaha

(#282370)
HankP's picture

keep telling yourself that. It's a good way to avoid dealing with the issues.

I blame it all on the Internet

I don't have to tell myself that

(#282416)
Bird Dog's picture

Her website did.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particula

Dr Phil Jones hate mail

(#282338)
mmghosh's picture

received at the time of Climategate.  No wonder he contemplated suicide at one point.

 

A flavour of commentary about this.

 

I am amazed at the preciousness of people who want to drive major changes in the way we live without any consequences. I have said before, and will keep saying, that Ministers get this stuff all the time, precisely because people think that they have the power to affect the way we live.

 

The quoted examples are typical of what a powerful politician gets all the time. No, they are not 'death threats', and yes, there are some angry and disturbed people out there.

It should be noted that these sorts of unpleasant communications are not limited to any particular kind of scientist, professional or politician. It is the perception that these people have the power to influence events that generates the hate mail. Judges get this stuff as well, as do doctors and lawyers, and public servants.

 

Judges, lawyers, public servants, doctors and politicians all manage to keep doing their jobs despite the rantings of temporarily or permanently deranged members of the public. What is so special about snowflake climate scientists, whose only crime is to promote policies that make people poorer (at best) based on questionable premises, data, and conclusions?

They, and their defenders, need to get out more. I'm afraid I don't share the revulsion of previous commenters, having read this sort of garbage very day addressed to Ministers. Boo-bloody-hoo. An old saying about heat and kitchens comes to mind.

Thanks Manish, Those are a Heap of Vile, Hate Filled Emails

(#282342)

 

...I would not have seen these if you had not posted the link. Thanks again.

 

FWIW, death threats and these kind of emails can and do take a real toll on people.

 

Trust me on this...commentators that say just suck it up like a man have never been subjected to this kind of terrorism.

 

Best Wishes, Traveller

OTOH, there's always Dr Mike Mann

(#282353)
mmghosh's picture

who can dish it out.

 

But of course, climate researchers have been making observations like these for years. It hasn’t mattered nearly as much as it should, though, because they’ve often lacked the communication skills to get their point across. If anything, their scientific training has tended to hobble them in a brass knuckles fight such as this one. And that, to me, is where Mann’s new book matters the most: It shows that he has developed the communication skills to match his unquestionable scientific talent—and moreover, that he has done so because the right forced him to.

That’s why Mann is such an inspiring example for all who care about the climate issue—and why his book is required reading. From the early “hockey stick” battles all the way up through “ClimateGate” and the Ken Cuccinelli inquiry, Mann didn’t give an inch. He didn’t back down; to the contrary, he showed what toughness actually means. And in the process, from the founding of RealClimate.org in 2004 up through the publication of this book, he evolved into a passionate communicator and advocate. Having had him on my podcast Point of Inquiry and heard him lecture, I can assure you that many scientists should take a lesson from him.

Paging M. Scott Eiland.

(#282341)

I just got an email from you to a Turkish website. Really wish I hadn't clicked on that thing. I think this is the first time I've been successfully fished since there was an internet. No virus warnings or anything...yet...fingers crossed.

 

EDIT: email was sent yesterday morning.

M Aurelius was probably right.

Yeah, I've Gotten A Few Emails On That

(#282362)
M Scott Eiland's picture

The timing is odd--I've been in SoCal for the past eleven days and just got back tonight, and have been only sporadically online (as Hank may have noticed). There might be a significant time delay on when whatever it is goes after your contact list, as the emails went out early Sunday morning PST (which tipped my father off that something was amiss--he knew that I hadn't sent the email because I was asleep on his couch at that time). I changed my passwords and am scanning my hard drive (since I don't know when this thing was first triggered). I'm more than a little peeved, and apologies to all those who were impacted.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

It has nothing to do with your activities

(#282371)
HankP's picture

whenever you hear about "500,000 passwords compromised" or similar stories, it doesn't mean they immediately use all the passwords. They sell them, and it may take weeks before a buyer actually uses them.

I blame it all on the Internet

Weeks?

(#282394)

You think so Hank?

 

Both buyers and sellers know they've got a quickly depreciating asset on their hands. I would guess they are faster than that.

I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.

My experiences in life

(#282399)
HankP's picture

have taught me to not assume that anyone is super efficient and capable at what they do until I see evidence of it. If small businesses can pay money for mailing lists and not use them efficiently, I assume the same of small crooks.

I blame it all on the Internet

Nice try, Mr. Turkish Sex Toy Spammer

(#282381)

I hope the damage is minor. The email that came to me went out to several others on The Forvm (from hotmail), so I was wondering if your account hadn't somehow been compromised from here, though I'm not sure how that could be.

 

Hank, MA, anyone with experience in these matters, I clicked on the link. I ran virus & spamware scans that came up bupkis except for a tracking cookie...any chance I got a keylogger installed just from opening a link?

M Aurelius was probably right.

A keylogger is the least of your worries

(#282383)

Just wait till that brown paper package arrives with the Turkish postage on it. You'll have a lot of explaining to do.

 

Seriously though, no guarantee any of you got hacked. The mail might have been sent with the return address set as Scott rather than being actually from him. A check of the headers would reveal that. I've seen that a few times.

I checked the headers, doesn't look like it was spoofed.

(#282386)

nt

M Aurelius was probably right.

No, Nothing To Worry About...

(#282393)

You should be fine.

 

By the way, could you kindly log in to your bank again? We didn't catch one of the characters before due to packet loss. Thanks!

I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.

Of course there's a chance

(#282400)
HankP's picture

that's how the internet works. Why do you think there are so many Windows security patches every week? Zero day attacks are constant and ongoing, every link you click on is a potential attack site. The question is whether there's anything I can do about it, and the answer unfortunately is no.

 

Email account hacks are pretty common, at least one of my clients has one every month or so. Fortunately they're easy to fix, just change your password.

 

There is a pretty good defense available, if you use Firefox you can load the add-ins Adblock and Noscript. The second one especially will prevent all kinds of attacks, but it's a bit of a pain for the first few weeks as you have to grant access to the sites you frequent. It also will show you how many sites you actually link to when you click on a link.

I blame it all on the Internet

The US DoJ spent 5 yrs. prosecuting Roger Clemens?

(#282344)

I don't really understand people who have this as any kind of a priority, let alone one that crowds out resources for cases that might actually matter.

 

Is there anything less important for federal politicians and lawyers to do than investigating steroid use in major league baseball?

 

Clemens acquitted: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/20120618_ap_rogerclemensacq...

 

Meanwhile we can barely get any prosecutions of bankers.

Somebody has to appease the Mrs Rev Lovejoy

(#282352)
brutusettu's picture

Meanwhile we can barely get any prosecutions of bankers.

 

He might hurt the feelings of donors and/or be called a socialist on AM radio type stuff.

"I’m to believe that North Korea is so dangerously unhinged that they would attack without warning – yet so meek and easily cowed that they will sit quietly and not retaliate when we start bombing them."

Major Kong

No Mystery As To Why They're Not Using The Courts. . .

(#282363)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .for the attempt to crucify Lance Armstrong. It's so much more convenient to conduct witch hunts without having to worry about little technicalities like "innocent until proven guilty" or "due process" or "dealing with the consequences of having scumbags as your primary witnesses."

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

What a total joke

(#282367)

The DoJ did waste money investigating Armstrong, they just didn't end up charging him with anything.

 

The Barry Bonds case was another complete piss down the drain. 

 

I could name 20 kinds of cases off the top of my head more worthy of resources.

An incredibly ignorant post

(#282389)

USADA is not a government organization even though it does accept some government funds. It's true that it doesn't use the court system and the normal rules of evidence. So what? Every athlete who wishes to compete in internationally sanctioned events agrees to be bound by the rules of WADA (the world anti doping agency) and the USADA is responsible for implementing WADA policy in this country. Lance Armstrong is not being singled out here. I can give you a very long list of athletes who have been punished for doping violations besides him who did not get a day in court with the rules of evidence customary for criminal trials. That is fine because it's what they agreed to.

 

You also don't seem to have even read the charges against LA. Besides the witness's there are also the results of recent blood tests that pretty clearly indicate he was engaging in blood doping. Since Lance is still competing in international events a ban on future competitions is fully appropriate and is separate from the DOJ investigation which was concerned with criminal charges.

 

Another point which lots of people seem to miss the TDF is a team event. No one wins it on their own. Many of Lance's teammates from the years who won the tour have either been busted or confessed to using drugs and/or blood doping. So his victories are tainted. In relay events in track and field if one member of the team is  busted the whole team is disqualified. I think the same standard should apply here.

 

 

 

Scott may have been referring to the 2 yr. criminal probe

(#282395)

by the US attorney's office in LA that might have ended up in court, but was dropped in February without filing any criminal charges.

 

http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdaily/2012/02/doj-armstrong.html

 

 

Wow, I thought the 'criminal probe' was related

(#282396)

to the email Jordan got from MSE.

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

Evidently in Turkey,

(#282398)

that kind of inquest requires batteries.

M Aurelius was probably right.

OK

(#282411)

But given the timing of the USADA competition ban that was just announced it seemed as if Scott was referring to that which is entirely separate from the DOJ action. What is really ironic about this is that Armstrong probably precipitated it by coming back out of retirement and (based on results from the recent blood tests) continuing to try to break the rules.

I would think Republicans would support this

(#282372)
HankP's picture

seeing as how they impeached Clinton for the exact same reason - lying to congress.

I blame it all on the Internet

Both Parties Have Supported This

(#282375)
M Scott Eiland's picture

And Clinton wasn't impeached for lying to Congress--he was impeached for perjury in his grand jury testimony and for obstruction of justice. As Wikipedia points out (first part of the "Impeachment by House of Representatives" section):

Since Ken Starr had already completed an extensive investigation, the House Judiciary Committee conducted no investigations of its own into Clinton's alleged wrongdoing, and it held no serious impeachment-related hearings before the 1998 mid-term elections.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Also, what was that John Edwards nonsense?

(#282376)

Tack that on to the string of recent garbage high profile court cases not even won by the DoJ.

 

These were a joke in terms of using the limited resources of a department that's supposed to promote the rule of law and administer justice.

OJ was acquitted too

(#282379)
HankP's picture

does that mean that they shouldn't have wasted the time and effort to try and convict him? Trials aren't guarantees.

 

You neglected to point out a recent success story - Rajat Gupta Convicted of Insider Trading

I blame it all on the Internet

You're comparing a murder charge

(#282409)

to a charge of paying off a mistress to keep her mouth shut?

Trials are unpredictable

(#282410)
HankP's picture

and don't only concern facts but the identity of the defendant, emotional appeals and a whole bunch of other issues. Unless I know an awful lot about all the issues involved in a case I'm not willing to automatically say that the prosecutors were wrong in bringing the case. I'm sure that some should be brought to trial and others that should be brought to trial aren't, but even good cases fail and even poor cases succeed. It's always easy in hindsight to pick the winners and losers, not so easy before the trial has begun.

I blame it all on the Internet

I'm saying it wasn't a very important case to begin with

(#282412)

If you can't criticize the DoJ after a string of expensive trials they lost which were fairly trivial and definitely a waste of resources, when can you criticize the DoJ?

Obama re: Greece's conservative, pro-austerity win

(#282402)

"I think the election in Greece yesterday indicates a positive prospect for not only them forming a government, but also them working constructively with their international partners in order that they can continue on the path of reform"

 

Anyone wanna guess whether Obama would've said something similar if a left-leaning government had won who wanted to renegotiate Greece's bailout terms?

 

Obama again: "Now is a time as we've discussed to make sure that all of us do what's necessary to stabilise the world financial system, to avoid protectionism." 

Because protectionism is the central problem with the world financial system? Too many capital controls? Ugh. The FT on (the myth of) financial protectionism:

 

"Emerging markets have fallen victim to unstable capital flows in the wake of the financial crisis. In an attempt to mitigate the accompanying asset bubbles and exchange rate pressures that come with such volatility, a number of emerging markets resorted to capital controls. Although these actions have largely been supported by the International Monetary Fund, some policy-makers and economists have decried capital controls as protectionist measures...

 

"Recently-published research shows that these claims are unfounded. According to the new welfare economics of capital controls, unstable capital flows to emerging markets can be viewed as negative externalities on recipient countries. Therefore regulations on cross-border capital flows are tools to correct for market failures that can make markets work better and enhance growth, not worsen it. ...

 

"Economists such as Keynes argued long ago that capital controls are important to prevent crises and to maintain an independent monetary policy that can strive for full employment and financial stability."

 

Naturally, Obama was structurally forced into making these conservative remarks on economic matters.  

The Fed's hands have been tied on the economy

(#282405)

Except with respect to the 700k public sector workers, including hundreds of thousands of teachers, who've been fired over the past three years:

 

"under Section 14 b 1 the Fed has the authority to purchase any obligation of a state or local government of 6 months maturity or less. This provision seems clearly to permit a mass refinancing of state and local government debt at the current 6 month interest rate (very close to 0), which would save state and local gov’ts approximately $75 billion a year (going by the flow of funds #s for state and local interest payments). Moreover, since state and local govts do the bulk of infrastructure investing, the fed could create a program to fully fund such investment through purchases of newly issued 6 month bonds, for projects that meet criteria the Fed sets out (such as being approved by a small committee of civil engineers appointed by the regional fed branches for that purpose). Finally, under section 24 of the Act, the fed can buy from national banks loans to finance residential construction, which in effect would give the fed the ability to spur new multi-family construction (sorely needed, as evinced by rising rents) by enabling lending banks to effectively sell the loans off their books." http://www.nextnewdeal.net/rortybomb/should-federal-reserve-go-muni-market

"Scanner moment" fail

(#282418)
Bird Dog's picture

The last time NBC tried some deceptive editing, heads rolled.

 

 

This time around, MSNBC engaged in some selectively editing to make Romney look like an out-of-touch retro man.

Except the editing was deceptive. The next day, no mea culpas and heads are still on necks.

 

 

Lesson not learned.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particula

I'm afraid I don't get

(#282419)

what "Wa-Was" is or why this remark makes Romney seem out of touch. I must be out of touch.

M Aurelius was probably right.

Wa-Wa is a Convenience Store Chain

(#282422)

in PA, apparently, and it's outfitted with some sort of magic touchscreen self serve sandwich ordering device and Romney's alleged amazement at the machine's efficiency is supposed to remind us of GHWB's alleged amazement at the grocery store barcode scanner in days of yore.

 

But of course NBC edited the hell out what was a boilerplate anecdote about the inefficiencies of government and the miracles of free enterprise to arrive at the gotcha that ain't.

 

The almost gotcha here is Romney's claim that a government Change of Address form used by a doctor who serves poor and elderly people is 33 pages long (see? in contrast with the private sector's magic sandwich interface).

 

But that's only a gotcha if one assumes Romney is talking about the Postal Service Change of Address form, which is a post card, and not some social welfare agency's Change of Address form, which is probable, and which may very well be pages and pages long, even 33 pages long, since, well, big systems are complicated and people try to defraud them.

 

Stupid silly season.

SnooperMexican's/BuzzFeed's 2 Minutes of Hate Fail

(#282428)
brutusettu's picture

It does look like Romney was talking about the "social welfare agency's Change of Address form"

 

Which would make it appear the little parable was trying to be used to attempt and trick voters in a fairly standard Romney way, a way that he's getting quite known for.  Romney basically gives us a "these bridges aren't working*" type moment hourly.

 

I doubt heads will roll over at SnooperMexican or BuzzFeed or wherever else for this "fact check" Uber Epic Fail.

 

 

 

*edit, yes I know.

 

 

 

"I’m to believe that North Korea is so dangerously unhinged that they would attack without warning – yet so meek and easily cowed that they will sit quietly and not retaliate when we start bombing them."

Major Kong

It's a Stupid Comparison

(#282429)

But par for the course.

 

When's the last time someone tried to defraud a sandwich?

What is a "supermarket scanner moment"?

(#282421)
brutusettu's picture

Just so I can be properly outraged.

It really truly better not be the moment where one realizes on a campaign trip how the proles have been shopping for the last decade+.

"I’m to believe that North Korea is so dangerously unhinged that they would attack without warning – yet so meek and easily cowed that they will sit quietly and not retaliate when we start bombing them."

Major Kong

Too young, I suppose,

(#282436)
Bird Dog's picture

to have seen GHW Bush in a supermarket, reportedly expressing the wonderment of a bar code scanner, all in order to portray him as out of touch. The political maneuver worked then, but it won't work now. Whether you choose to have feelings of outrage or any other emotion, I don't really care.

 

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particula

True. Romney isn't out of touch with the hoi polloi.

(#282448)

But he is badly out of touch with the truth.

M Aurelius was probably right.

That is a weakness you can exploit

(#282450)
Bird Dog's picture

Basically, 32% of Romney's statements were rated true or mostly true, while Obama is at 46%.

 

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particula

And can you rate Politifact for us?

(#282452)

What % of their true and mostly true ratings are only half true or mostly false?

Pass

(#282507)
Bird Dog's picture

Why is it that so many liberals hate fact-checkers. 

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particula

Because they are bloggers calling themselves "fact checkers"

(#282514)
brutusettu's picture

Why is it normally so damn bright during the summer when there is no cloud cover?

"I’m to believe that North Korea is so dangerously unhinged that they would attack without warning – yet so meek and easily cowed that they will sit quietly and not retaliate when we start bombing them."

Major Kong

Who knew...

(#282550)
Bird Dog's picture

...that the WA Post, Tampa Bay Times and the Annenberg Foundation are just bloggers. My bad.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particula

Shorter: "fact-checkers" aren't beyond reproach

(#282580)
brutusettu's picture

Because they (effectively perform at a level lower than many) bloggers (and their so called "fact checking" far too often doesn't last a nanosecond under scrutiny).

"I’m to believe that North Korea is so dangerously unhinged that they would attack without warning – yet so meek and easily cowed that they will sit quietly and not retaliate when we start bombing them."

Major Kong

Huh

(#282584)
Bird Dog's picture

Seems like we had this conversation before. Oh yeah, we did! I guess facts must have a conservative bias these days.

 

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particula

Huh?

(#282586)
brutusettu's picture

It looks like I picked a bad day to stop sniffing glue.

"I’m to believe that North Korea is so dangerously unhinged that they would attack without warning – yet so meek and easily cowed that they will sit quietly and not retaliate when we start bombing them."

Major Kong

Meanwhile, Romney's a "pants on fire" record setter.

(#282455)

The presumptive Republican nominee is a proven, habitual liar, and he lies about serious & substantive policy issues. 

 

I predict his profligate inverarity will matter to voters.

M Aurelius was probably right.

You must be joking

(#282456)

I predict his profligate inverarity will matter to voters.

 

 

 

Given Romney's proven ability

(#282431)

... & willingness to lie like a rug, how much selective editing would be considered too much?

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

Irrelevant question

(#282437)
Bird Dog's picture

NBC changed the meaning and context of what Romney said. This isn't about Romney, it's about a network that, more than once, has used deceptive editing in its reporting to convey something that wasn't true.

 

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particula

Given the proven abilities of Fox News

(#282499)

& their willingness on occasion to lie like a rug, how much selective editing by NBC would be considered too much?

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

Asked and answered

(#282508)
Bird Dog's picture

I don't see how FoxNews has anything to do with NBC's penchant for deceptive editing.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particula

Because Fox taught everyone else how to do it?

(#282509)
HankP's picture

with a major assist from Breitbart.

I blame it all on the Internet

Must! Tangent!

(#282510)
Bird Dog's picture

You're always welcome to write your own comment or diary on how FoxNews deceptively edits. But as it is, all you and Sparti are doing is lamely attempting to try to change the subject. The topic isn't really about Romney or FoxNews.

 

 

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particula

I am writing my own comment

(#282511)
HankP's picture

but of course we can only discuss what you want to discuss, right? I see that making comparisons is now somehow out of bounds here.

I blame it all on the Internet

You can discuss whatever you want,

(#282564)
Bird Dog's picture

but you're still threadjacking by trying to change the subject. Scott's title is apt.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particula

Threadjacking in an open thread

(#282570)
HankP's picture

now I've heard everything.

I blame it all on the Internet

Commentjacking?

(#282576)

Should be ashamed of yourself Hank.

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

Ha!

(#282579)
Bird Dog's picture

Surprising that you don't understand how threads work. But given the shortcomings in your diaries, I guess I shouldn't have been surprised.

 

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particula

I Am Proud of Mr. Assange Foiling the United States Attempt

(#282432)

...to put him in jail or kill him. There has never been any doubt in my mind that the Extradition against Mr. Assange to Sweden was really to make him available for Extradition to the United States (of fascist  Amerika in this instance).

 

Seeking asylum in Ecuador is a smart & savvy move against the United States being entirely corrupt and dishonest in this instance.

 

 

Mr Assange said he would not be protected from being extradited to "a foreign country that applies the death penalty for the crime of espionage and sedition," Mr Patino said.

The anti-secrecy campaigner fears extradition to Sweden may lead to him being sent to the US to face separate charges relating to Wikileaks, for which he could face the death penalty.

 

Good on Mr. Assange I say.

 

Best Wishes, Traveller

 

Ah Yes. . .

(#282438)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .the notorious US-Swedish counter-espionage alliance at work again--explaining the large number of corpses of would-be US security violators found floating in the Arctic Ocean with suspicious echoes of 70's porn music and "Proud to be an American" fading in the distance.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

As Greenwald has written about on a few occassions

(#282441)

Sweden's extradition treaty with the US and their past cooperation shows that it's an obvious route for the US to have pursued to get Assange here.

 

If you can't tell that the whole thing is a trumped up and somewhat elaborate attempt by the US to get its hands on Assange, then I must say that you can't really read events very well. 

Not sure which is funnier

(#282439)
Bird Dog's picture

Alec Baldwin attacking a photographer or having a wife named Hilaria (link). 

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particula

Well Yes, But She is a Damned fine Looking Woman...

(#282442)

(I've given it 5 tries now, that's all I'll do)

 

I hope my posting of images works in the new editor.

 

Let's see.

 

 

image

 

2nd try

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9755129@N08/7404289344/ 4th try

 

Traveller

Trav, here's how you do it

(#282443)
HankP's picture

on the flickr page, click on "share" then "Grab the HTML/BBCode" Highlight what's in the box, then in the comment switch to plain text editor and paste the text where you want the picture to appear.

 

This is required because flickr doesn't provide a direct link to a .png or .jpg the way other sites do.

I blame it all on the Internet

Hilaria ensues

(#282444)
Bird Dog's picture

Yep, I'll give you that. She'd be just as hot if she were called Gretchen. Or Frieda.

 

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particula

Having met Alec Baldwin once,

(#282449)
Jay C's picture

it's hard to moderate my reactions: OTOH, IMO, Alec deserves what(ever) he gets, OTOH, my sympathies for paparazzi are down there with those for the order Blattaria, so it's not an easy decision.....

 

Hilaria IS cute, though: good luck to them both!

This unfair male-female wage gap should not stand!

(#282440)
Bird Dog's picture

Wage inequality for paid anti-Romney protesters.

Neither of the representatives agreed to give their names, but two protesters said they were getting paid to stand outside of the rally, though their wage is unclear: one said she was getting $7.25 per hour, while another man said they were being paid $17 per hour.

Link.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particula

Mitch McConnell

(#282445)

"Almost 70 percent of the federal revenue is provided by the top 10 percent of taxpayers now. ...We have an extraordinarily progressive tax code already. It is a mess and needs to be revisited again," McConnell said in the interview, taped Monday

 

I'm sure he just forgot to mention that he's talking about the income tax only, not all the other federal taxes. Even focusing on essentially the only part of the "extraordinarily progressive" tax code that is progressive, he doesn't say how much income the top 10% make. This man is a douchebag.

 

 

You have to marvel at his ability to lie

(#282447)

to millions of voters without the slightest trace of hesitation or shame. [Cue Brando's speech from Apocalypse Now.]

M Aurelius was probably right.

Spanish commercial during NBA finals

(#282457)

Has someone switched my blood pressure medication with crazy pills?

 

I just watched a Ford commercial during the NBA finals on ABC.  It was in spanish with english subtitles and the final hook text was in spanish.  I never watch network TV, has this been happening for a while?  Well, the market has spoken.  Or at least Fords ad agency.  Good luck with the anti-Mexican immigrant rhetoric.  The gay boogeyman died the when they started showing up in big market ads.

On my domestic flight last weekend

(#282458)

I opened up the in-flight magazine - one column in English, one in Spanish.

 

As a white male of European descent who doesn't speak Spanish, I felt as if my country was being wrestled from my hands.

A bi-lingual magazine? That can't be good.

(#282470)

'Hmmm, Huh?  WTF is this?  A sombrero?  I know damn well I ordered the water powered alarm clock out of the sky mall.'

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

the crazy Japs don't do it side by side like us normal folk

(#282471)

The in-flight magazines on flights domestic and international are identical, at least in my frequent flying experience, and rare is the magazine that is not published in English along with another language. And dig this: the crazy Japs don't do it side by side like us normal folk, but upside down and turned around!

Something which struck me as odd, coming from Canada and having lived in a variety of Asian nations where multilingual product labelling in grocery stores is the norm, was how Mexico was resolutely monolingual in labelling. Any English on labels in Mexican supermarkets is rare and probably coincidental.

You will kill 10 of our men, and we will kill 1 of yours, and in the end it will be you who tire of it. - Ho Chi Minh

Well they must change it for the export market

(#282475)
HankP's picture

because when I go into Japanese, Chinese or Korean markets here the imported stuff has no English on it anywhere.

I blame it all on the Internet

Aren't you from Texas?

(#282462)
HankP's picture

isn't it pretty common to have spanish language in signage and other items in Texas? It was pretty common in hispanic/latino neighborhoods back east.

I blame it all on the Internet

I don't recall a spanish

(#282466)

I don't recall a spanish language commercial during something like the NBA finals.  Signage and all that stuff, sure, but not that.

Not all commercials are national

(#282469)
HankP's picture

local markets usually get at least some time even during major events.

 

But yeah, business sees a market and wants to exploit it. And the NBA is apparently the most popular sport among latinos.

I blame it all on the Internet

I am The Future...

(#282841)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

Well, The MSM Flunkies Will Have To Cover It Now

(#282487)
M Scott Eiland's picture

White House declares executive privilege over documents in Fast and Furious case.

I love it when the coyote refuses to chew the leg off and sticks another one in the trap for good measure.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Barack Milhous Obama, Take Two

(#282504)
M Scott Eiland's picture

House panel ignores claim of executive privilege, finds Holder in contempt.

Um, Mr. President--if you and your administration knew nothing about Fast and Furious how can you claim executive privilege regarding it?

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Because Issa's on a fishing expedition nt

(#282506)
HankP's picture

.

I blame it all on the Internet

Nancy Pelosi:

(#282512)

"I could have arrested Karl Rove on any given day"

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

Fairly Early Congressional efforts to control US citizenship

(#282520)
brutusettu's picture

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/06/seeing-ourselve...

 

As anyone who follows U.S. immigration law knows, the first big restrictive measure America imposed was the "Chinese Exclusion Act" of the 1880s.

"I’m to believe that North Korea is so dangerously unhinged that they would attack without warning – yet so meek and easily cowed that they will sit quietly and not retaliate when we start bombing them."

Major Kong

Probation--What Probation?

(#282593)
M Scott Eiland's picture

USC opens as 3-1 favorite in Vegas line for next NCAA Football Championship.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

The Sound That You Hear. . .

(#282623)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .is from Dan Gilbert sobbing like the little punk that he is over a voided guarantee. Congratulations to the Heat--and particularly to LBJ. Memo to Kevin Durant and Company--your time will come.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Meanwhile, 99.9% of people not in the Cleveland area are...

(#282640)
brutusettu's picture

wondering who the hell Dan Gilbert is.

I recognized the name, but even I would have failed to remember who that is w/o the context.

"I’m to believe that North Korea is so dangerously unhinged that they would attack without warning – yet so meek and easily cowed that they will sit quietly and not retaliate when we start bombing them."

Major Kong

True Enough

(#282641)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Dan Gilbert suffers my scorn for all irrational LBJ haters so no one else has to, and because he was particularly pathetic in his insane overreaction even by LBJ hater standards. A long off-season is approaching--plenty of time to construct an explanation of why now ring owning and reigning NBA playoff MVP LeBron James is still worthy of scorn.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

You don't have to be from Cleveland

(#282672)
HankP's picture

or a basketball fan to recognize that whole televised is-he-staying-or-is-he-going event to be ridiculously over the top.

I blame it all on the Internet

several things

(#282676)
brutusettu's picture

1: there is that unprecedented hour long event LeBron unveiled for his preplanned decision to leave.
2: a fairly significant number of Cavs fans still wouldn't mind him coming back.
3: 2 years later, The Decision is wearing off, but new stupid acts can bring The Decision back past the statue of limitations, just as The Decision was big enough to bring past acts back in the fold.
4: more than just a few people think LeBron's inner circle basically advised him to throw money at, and then hide behind 8 year old boys and girls for The Decision.
5: Before the hour long TV event, LeBron was just coming off a Boston series where he gave an Exhibition game effort in a few conference finals games.

"I’m to believe that North Korea is so dangerously unhinged that they would attack without warning – yet so meek and easily cowed that they will sit quietly and not retaliate when we start bombing them."

Major Kong