How Romney Paid 0% in Income Taxes

TPM reader "MB" is a private equity professional and offers one plausible-sounding way in which Romney could have paid very low federal income tax rates (i.e. <10% per year) during the 2002-2009 period. 

 

The concept is called a "tax-neutral buyout." Basically, Romney's partners at Bain Capital entered into a structured takeover where they bought out Romney's shares over a period of years. So, Josh Marshall asks, wouldn't income from those shares be taxed as capital gains at the 15% rate? Not so fast, says MB. There are literally dozens of ways to shield capital gains from taxation, and when those gains are related to a private equity takeover, there's at least one *really* big shelter/loophole, and that is IRA law.

Romney cut a retirement deal with his partners to buy out his shares in the Bain Capital management company. Where it could be zero is if Romney had previously contributed his shares of the Bain Capital management company that he controlled 100% of into his IRA over the years. [...]

 

The management company shares are generally considered to have relatively nominal value (i.e. you can conceivably put them into an IRA) as there generally isn’t a lot of (or any) income/revenue associated with them — however, since the management company owns the brand name and controls the funds and all hiring/firing/compensation decisions (within Bain Capital), if Romney’s partners wanted to continue using the name “Bain Capital” and take over control of the private equity firm and funds in the future, they would have to buy back Romney’s shares over a period of several years for hundred+ of millions of dollars. This is not uncommon in private equity firms undergoing an ownership transition. Since these shares (could) have been contributed to an IRA over the years, the Romney’s income 2002 to 2009 would largely be from his partners at Bain buying back shares that he’s already contributed to his IRA, and just like any trading you do in your IRA, the sale of these shares would be tax free until after he turns 65 (and/or withdraws from said IRA) and he’d pay zero income taxes on that. So, if he had transferred 50% of his Bain management co. shares to an IRA, if he was being paid $20M per year to have those shares bought back, his tax rate would be a blended 7.5%. If the management company shares were held overseas or had overseas blocker entities, it is conceivable it could be even lower than that. Also, he could use his taxable shares as charitable gifts and his non-taxable IRA shares as tax free income.

MB points out Romney's non-denial denials. Reid's suggesting that Romney paid $0 in income taxes, but Romny is always careful to fire back that he paid "lots of taxes." He's not, in other words, actually saying that Reid is wrong.

 

On the question of Reid's "imaginary friend," is it conceivable that Reid found some Deep Throat figure from Bain Capital with first-hand knowledge of any tax-neutral buyout deal? Mais oui!

It is plausible that a Bain investor (a Limited Partner) would know the details of a tax-neutral Romney buyout from his Bain partners. Limited Partners (pension funds, endowments, foundations, etc.) that have millions invested in Bain Capital would demand to know the economic details of the transfer of control from Romney to his partners. Why? Because if the remaining partners were unhappy and departed, then the Bain Capital investors would have millions of dollars committed to a fund whose managers are no longer there to invest the money. Hence the rhetoric “name the source.”

Obviously any such individual divulging information like that to Reid could be violating "ironclad confidentiality agreements," and so risking serious liability thereby. But the fact remains that any partners/counterparties to Romney's retirement plan (or their staff) could indeed have detailed tax information about the plan. It isn't as if only Romney's CPA could know this stuff.

 

It's all sheer speculation. But unlike all the over-the-top claims that Reid is lying, it is plausible speculation. These are common tax shelter strategies in private equity transfers. But as we've all learned recently, speculation - even plausible, grounded speculation - that is unsupported by public records is exactly the same as lying, so I guess that makes this a pants on fire diary.

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Harry Said Zero Income Tax For Ten Years

(#286098)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Your scenario doesn't get us there. Therefore, Harry is still lying--about what the alleged source told him, if nothing else.

Memo to Hank: might want to install sprinklers in the Forvm--I smell burning denim in a diary title.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Doesn't matter: plausibility is on Reid's side. -nt-

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.

M Aurelius was probably right.

Not Really

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M Scott Eiland's picture

Even your scenario doesn't get him there--it just suggests a scenario where Romney paid a lower tax rate. Lying to flush out other embarrassing information is still lying, just as it was for the Birthers.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

A plausible path to 7 years of 0% income tax

(#286104)

is a giant chunk of credibility for Reid's story. 

 

And of course we haven't even gotten to the Financial Crisis (business loss deductions), carried interest and other deductions that could very well get Romney in the ballpark of 10 years without paying income taxes. 

 

I think the public is quite right to be curious to know whether a multimillionaire can avoid income taxes altogether, and whether said multimillionaire wants to further widen the gulf between what the incredibly rich pay in taxes and what those of us in the Third Estate have to pay.

M Aurelius was probably right.

Romney has better things to do with his money than paying taxes

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You are quibbling and the more you continue in this vein, the worse it will be for your party.

You need to stand up for what you believe in and state that Romney has better things to do with his money than paying taxes, and show us how he has contributed to society thanks to his ability to take advantage of various tax shelters and avoidance schemes which were passed into law precisely so that decent folk like Romney could play a role in the national economy proper to their unique abilities.

You will kill 10 of our men, and we will kill 1 of yours, and in the end it will be you who tire of it. - Ho Chi Minh

Your suggestion reminds me of Jack Nicholson

(#286133)

in A Few Good Men.

You frickin people! I have a greater responsibility

(#286139)

than you can possibly fathom! You weep for the middle class and you curse the millionaires. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know, that my nonpayment of taxes, while tragic, probably saves millions. And my Cayman Island holding companies, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, save millions. You don't want the tax returns, because deep down in places you don't talk about at your second job, you want me on that yacht. You need me on that yacht.

M Aurelius was probably right.

That would make a hilarious sketch

(#286143)

Sketch title: "A Few Good Supermen" 

A Few Good Chairmen -nt-

(#286147)

.

M Aurelius was probably right.

Okay, that was funny

(#286144)
Bird Dog's picture

If they were smart, the Obama people could do something with that.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particula

Unfortunately, Sorkin's latest project

(#286148)

show's that he's become a tendentious & clumsy left-wing sock puppeteer. Col. Nathan Jessup may be a right-wing punching bag, but he's a surpassingly well-written punching bag.

M Aurelius was probably right.

very droll

(#286221)

You should pad it out a little and put it in the Huffington Post or somewhere that's going to get a large audience.

You will kill 10 of our men, and we will kill 1 of yours, and in the end it will be you who tire of it. - Ho Chi Minh

I would concede Harry might be guilty of hyperbole

(#286107)

Might!

 

Unfortunately for you, the only evidence that could prove he's guilty of anything more than that is locked away in Mitt's tax returns. I say well played Harry. Beat 'em at their own game.

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

Negative

(#286192)
stinerman's picture

The truth value of Reid's assertion is either true or false, but no one has proven it beyond a reasonable doubt.  His basis for making an assertion is pretty weak, IMO.  "Some guy said..." doesn't cut it for me.

That being said, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, so I'm not losing any sleep over it. 

The Constitution does not vest in Congress the authority to protect society from every bad act that might befall it. -- Clarence Thomas

This just scratches the surface

(#286106)
HankP's picture

the accounting firm I worked at didn't handle anyone of Romney's wealth as far as I recall. But even for people with assets in the mere tens of millions of dollars there are so many different legal ways to shelter income it's ridiculous. In Romney's case there are all kinds of ways to pass income to his heirs untaxed, various types of revocable and irrevocable rusts, trusts created as vehicles only to hold the assets of other trusts, etc.  Having a company with foreign subsidiaries adds all kinds of twists to available strategies. Believe me, that job was quite eye opening. Most people have no idea of the number and type of tax loopholes available for the wealthy.

 

I blame it all on the Internet

Wriggle, then flog some more

(#286109)
Bird Dog's picture

The claim is this: “The word's out that he [Romney] hasn't paid any taxes for 10 years.”

Not income taxes. Taxes, period.

For people who actually care about their credibility, the answer to Douchebag Reid's claim is "improbable" or "theoretically possible but preposterous", using the fact-checkers that liberals hate. Come to think of it, I find this diary also to be theoretically possible but preposterous.

 

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particula

Ha. Namecalling again

(#286111)
HankP's picture

always a good fallback in the absence of a decent argument.

I blame it all on the Internet

Says the guy who calls Tea Partiers Teabaggers

(#286114)
Bird Dog's picture

The argument is there, the "douchebag" is just a well-deserved bonus.

 

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particula

Um, that's what they called themselves

(#286117)
HankP's picture

in case you forgot.

I blame it all on the Internet

False

(#286120)
Bird Dog's picture

A small unknowing minority did, until you left-wingers turned it into an epithet.

 

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particula

Damn lefties

(#286122)

they spoil everything with their humorous double entendre. There ought to be a law.

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

Ha

(#286152)
HankP's picture

False, but true

I blame it all on the Internet

So The One Guy. . .

(#286153)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .who held up the sign "We Support Our Troops When They Shoot Their Officers" was speaking for all antiwar liberals? Good to know.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

RTFA

(#286155)

It's short. Won't hurt, I swear. Here's one example of many:

 

April 14, 2010
Prominent conservative Andrew Breitbart posts a video on the site Big Government in an attempt to reclaim the term. "I'm Proud to be a Tea Bagger" currently has over 90,000 view
s.

 

 

Nonresponsive

(#286159)
M Scott Eiland's picture

By then, the term had been dishonestly used by the left for more than a year (most notably via Anderson Cooper's closet-muffled giggling rendition). There were only a handful of earlier incidents (and the "sending tea bags" entry is a dishonest entry on the list).

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

ha

(#286161)

So sainted breitbart (hallowed be his name, we await his return and until then I am Him as are we all, alpha and omega...) goes out and actively wants to reclaim the term, as well as those other examples. But none of it counts because some people were being mean in the past?

 

You guys are funny.

So. . .

(#286199)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .an epithet can be made fully acceptable for all to use if a subgroup of the people it is directed at decide to adopt it/reclaim it?

*cough cough unfortunate implications cough cough*

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Sure man

(#286201)

Go ahead and feel free to use whatever epithet you'd like. Hope you've got health insurance. 

 

And man alive what you guys won't do to protect the tribe. I'd think that a proud and powerful institution like the teahadists would laugh in the face of such minor beings who would taunt them with names. Instead, grievance and bitching. 

 

Same as it ever was. And if you want to compare the epithet n***** with teabagger, that makes you a raging fill in the blank. Might as well pull a Godwin and you know it. 

Yellow Card

(#286229)
stinerman's picture

 

"That makes you a raging fill in the blank."

That counts as attacking the poster because the intent is obvious.

The Constitution does not vest in Congress the authority to protect society from every bad act that might befall it. -- Clarence Thomas

Seconded

(#286231)

nt

I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.

Thirded

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.

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

Ha

(#286238)
HankP's picture

more affirmative action.

I blame it all on the Internet

Hadn't Seen It

(#286240)

Taken care of.

I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.

Unknowing?

(#286154)

Read the article. It's a simple list of facts. For example Breitbart tried to "reclaim" the word for themselves and put up a video about it in 2010:

 

April 14, 2010
Prominent conservative Andrew Breitbart posts a video on the site Big Government in an attempt to reclaim the term. "I'm Proud to be a Tea Bagger" currently has over 90,000 views.

 

It's like there's a whole different reality out there. Say, I wonder what's in romney's taxes?

It's been read

(#286158)
Bird Dog's picture

A few people unwittingly used it in the early stages, then a few dimwits tried and failed to take ownership of it, but couldn't overcome the insulting nature of the term. It's an epithet no different than "chickenhawk". Hank is rationalizing his use of the term, which is telling.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particula

I disagree.

(#286162)

Teabagger is kind of silly and refers to silly people in lawn chairs and tri corner hats.

 

Chickenhawk has a specific meaning and applies to specific people who do specific things. Like mittens keeping Paris safe from the viet cong, then going all rambo 45 years later..

No, they wittingly used it

(#286167)
HankP's picture

it wasn't until they discovered the slang meaning that they changed. But that doesn't change the fact that they voluntarily used the term.

I blame it all on the Internet

I'll take possibly guilty of hyperbole

(#286115)

over douchebag liar. Thanks for the concession.

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

The context is tax returns: he's talking about federal income

(#286116)

taxes.

 

And "pants on fire" is now "improbable"? What happened to our glorious new standard of proof?

M Aurelius was probably right.

Wriggle, then flog some more

(#286119)
Bird Dog's picture

The context was federal taxes and federal tax returns. I'm pretty that sure that "any" and "income" do not mean the same thing, but dictionary.com is there to help you.

Douchebag Reid's imaginary friend said, "Harry, he didn't pay any taxes for 10 years."

Then Reid said this: "He didn't pay taxes for 10 years! Now, do I know that that's true? Well, I'm not certain. But obviously he can't release those tax returns. How would it look? … You guys have said his wealth is $250 million. Not a chance in the world. It's a lot more than that. I mean, you do pretty well if you don't pay taxes for 10 years when you're making millions and millions of dollars."

Then Reid doubled down: "As we know, he has refused to release his tax returns. If a person coming before this body wanted to be a Cabinet officer, he couldn't be if he had the same refusal Mitt Romney does about tax returns. So the word is out that he has not paid any taxes for 10 years. Let him prove he has paid taxes, because he has not."

Later on the same day: "I was told by an extremely credible source that Romney has not paid taxes for 10 years."

Sorry, Jordan, but Reid made no distinctions when he effluented that political diarrhea.

The ruling from Politifact was "pants on fire" and the ruling from the WA Post was "whopper". I'm good with either one as they well summarized Reid's gross dishonesty. There was a time when Senate Majority Leaders adhered to a higher standard, but not with this douchebag. And by the way, Harry will get the adjective preceding his name until the flogging subsides.

 

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particula

The context is federal tax returns, ergo income taxes.

(#286124)

As you (probably) know, state & local income, sales & property taxes are not reflected in federal returns. Reid's calling for the returns to be released: he's obviously talking about federal taxes. But keep flogging if it makes you feel better.

 

Also: are we now backing all the way down from "pants on fire" to "somewhat sloppy language"? As you'll observe, it is well within the realm of possibility that Romney paid <10% income tax for a number of years, perhaps even <5% for a few years.

M Aurelius was probably right.

As a CPA for 15 years,

(#286160)
Bird Dog's picture

what would lil' ole BD know about federal tax returns. BTW, Reid simply did not limit his accusations to income taxes.

 

 

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particula

Only if you limit the context of his remarks

(#286168)

to whatever you deem it to be.

 

Come to think of it, conservatives generally & the Romney campaign especially are very adept at that particular dodge.

 

 

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

If you're a CPA

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HankP's picture

you know better than almost anyone else here about all the tricks the ultra wealthy can use to shield income from taxation. Why you're arguing so hard against it makes no sense.

I blame it all on the Internet

Not necessarily

(#286177)

Your garden variety CPA isn't working with the ultra wealthy or with large corporations using exotic tax avoidance strategies.

True

(#286180)
HankP's picture

but they'd at least be familiar with concepts like trusts and tax advantaged accounts. More so that the average person.

I blame it all on the Internet

Hm, so you have filed for state & local tax returns

(#286175)

using a Form 1040?

 

Also, for a minute there you sounded like Navy Davy.

M Aurelius was probably right.

I really want to know

(#286188)

How you get $100 million in an IRA.

They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist...
-- General John B. Sedgwick, 1864

It's simple

(#286196)
HankP's picture

you transfer assets into the 401K or IRA and claim they're almost worthless - since these are assets that you completely control. Then after a few years you revalue them so they're worth millions of dollars. But of course they're in a tax advantaged account now, so there's no tax paid until disbursements are made from the account. And at that point there are other tricks like transferring the assets to irrevocable trusts and the like.

I blame it all on the Internet

Am I the only one who thinks it's funny...

(#286655)

...and ironic that we just had this conversation about what "...didn't/don't pay taxes", in essence, actually means?

http://www.politicususa.com/half-americans-taxes.html

A favorite talking point used by conservatives to justify giving more tax breaks to the wealthy is that 50% of Americans pay no taxes.

~At times like these I am reminded of the immortal words of Socrates when he said...."I drank what?"

Under Paul Ryan's Tax Plan, Romney Would Pay 0.82%

(#286620)

The Atlantic was kind enough to run the numbers

In 2010 -- the only year we have seen a full return from him -- Romney would have paid an effective tax rate of around 0.82 percent under the Ryan plan, rather than the 13.9 percent he actually did. How would someone with more than $21 million in taxable income pay so little? Well, the vast majority of Romney's income came from capital gains, interest, and dividends. And Ryan wants to eliminate all taxes on capital gains, interest and dividends.

 

Of course, Romney criticized this idea back in January when Newt Gingrich proposed it by pointing out that zeroing out taxes on savings and investment would mean zeroing out his own taxes.

 

Almost. Romney did earn $593,996 in author and speaking fees in 2010 that still would be taxed under the Ryan plan. Just not much. Ryan would cut the top marginal tax rate from 35 to 25 percent and get rid of the Alternative Minimum Tax -- saving Romney another $292,389 or so on his 2010 tax bill. Now, Romney would still owe self-employment taxes on his author and speaking fees, but that only amounts to $29,151. Add it all up, and Romney would have paid $177,650 out of a taxable income of $21,661,344, for a cool effective rate of 0.82 percent.

So, it's theoretically possible that Harry Reid is correct, and Romney paid very little to zero in income taxes for ten years. But it's absolutely certain that if Romney & Ryan are elected and pass Ryan's tax plan, a guy like Romney would be just about entirely exempt from federal taxes.

 

Just like members of the First and Second Estates up until 1788 or so. 

M Aurelius was probably right.