Much Needed Open Thread
I'd like everyone to write a 5-paragraph essay on why the Posting Rules are wise, benevolent and good.
--
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
- Jordan's blog
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Jacob Weisberg in Slate: If Obama loses, it's only because of racism.
Thanks for the heads up, pal--it's easier to ignore the shrieking when it's visibly and provably pre-choreographed.
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)Our old friend Armando opines on the Biden announcement.
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)Talk Left has become a PUMA hangout. Read the comments if you don't believe me.
--But she's a queen, and such are queens
that your laughter is sucked in their brains. -D. Bowie
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| parent )...this is what's written by the losers? Okay.
--To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard
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| parent )... given Obama's stubborn and wrongheaded unwillingness to pick Hillary Clinton and put a lock on the election ...
How long are we going to have to read these Hillary flunkies?
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| parent )He wins? We're done with them forever. He loses? We're stuck with them for four years at the minimum.
Yet another reason to do everything possible to elect Obama.
--To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard
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| parent )But even in defeat he would win by losing, right? ;)
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| parent )If he loses we all lose. And get stuck with a trigger happy nut job with delusions of grandeur and a rich wife. The wife ain't bad, tho'.
--To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard
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| parent )If he loses we all lose.
Interesting, since no one, including the candidate himself (and certainly the rest of his party) seems to know what Obama would do as President if he wins. It's a shame that the tens of millions of citizens who will vote for McCain don't have your knowledge, but it's good that you are looking out for them. Someone has to protect them from their own ignorance, after all.
--In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
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| parent )it's our turn.
You guys had the chance to nominate McCain back in 2000, but you went with the Boy King instead. Now you gotta pay.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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| parent )Tens of millions of citizens voted for Bush. Twice. This does not impress me as a viable excuse.
Look, if you enjoy an American foreign policy that lurches from one crisis to the next, fueled by Cold War vapors, ignorance, and gullibility? (Let's not forget, McCain was chumped early and often by Chalabi.) Then McCain's the guy for you. A ten dollar biography and a ten cent head.
--To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard
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| parent )Brian Clay, of course. Who did you think I meant?
--In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
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)who came in at the end of the Skins/Colts game to run out the clock and instead went 9-10 and scored two TDs two win the game, impressing Al Michaels and John Madden in the process. I think it's safe to say that the Sugar Bowl debacle is behind him.
Hank, can we turn off the Bach organ music now that automatically starts and won't stop each time this diary is selected?
--In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
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| parent )you guys never let me have any fun anymore.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )I actually liked the wording of the original 4 point rules at tacitus.org. IMHO they covered things better than the current ones, but perhaps that's just my opinion. Does anyone have the old wording?
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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)* Be reasonably civil.
--* No profanity.
* Don't disrupt or destroy meaningful conversation for its own sake.
* Do not consistently abuse or vilify other posters for its own sake.
Of course not!
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| parent )I'll have to cut & paste those for future reference.
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )I feel like it's been ages since we had any MA perspective round here.
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| parent )...every once in a while.
I have had little time and less inspiration. The race is proving to be mediocre and predictable.
Also, my recent writing feels pretty basic next to the production of some people who are active these days around here. For example, I like the stuff K is writing and I like the items Micky is bringing to our attention. Even then, it takes me days to get to it.
--Of course not!
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| parent )Also, my recent writing feels pretty basic
you're one of the most interesting commentators I've read on the net.
That's horsepucky if that's a factor.
Anyway, glad to know you're alive + kickin.
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| parent )posting rules:
I added the one about "no racial slurs" because a discussion arose about whether it was legitimate to use racial slurs to mock the alleged racism of others, and my strong preference was to simply disallow the usage regardless of intent.
--Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
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| parent )so this guy i met when i was in china has a blog.
he's in beijing(the 'jing, they call it) and has ben attending olympic games...
anyways he had an interesting post re the rogge comments on usain bolt.... thought i would pass it along.
http://professionalmanofleisure.blogspot.com/2008_08_01_archive.html#565...
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)The Bolt ragging is one of the sillier things I've seen this Olympic cycle. How often does someone get a chance to win a gold medal, and so decisively? And what about the US guys who finished second and third and still held up "We're Number One" fingers - why not rag on them instead? Or feel embarrassment at a US pro basketball team that so overmatches its opponents that it had to slow down and take only three-point shots just to let China lose by twenty points instead of thirty-five? and isn't Rogge the guy who ushered in BMX biking?
I have the naive view that the Olympics is about the thrill of victory and the agony of the feet. Which is why I watch it, and only rag of the French.
--In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
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| parent )I agreed with Ato Boldon that his behavior in the last twenty meters of the 100 meters wasn't how we should be encouraging kids to act, but otherwise he's just been cheerful and exuberant. That IOC guy might be better advised to deal with the Chinese sneaking those 13 and 14 year olds onto their gymnastics team rather than a 22 year old who celebrated a little too soon and who hopefully realizes that it wouldn't be cool to keep doing it that way now. He certainly went all out in the 200 meters and the 4 by 100 relay.
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| parent )One of the networks did a good summary of the scandal that's breaking over scoring, and their fight-guy commentator predicted the sport would be dropped within the next few Summer Olympics because it's been crooked for more than thirty years.
Though it's not a sport I particularly like, I watched the China/Ireland 112-pound class semifinal fight, where the scoring was 14-0. Instant replay showed at least four points scored by the Irish fighter. Then there was the French boxer who saw his lead evaporate when his Dominican opponent was awarded four points on nonexistent penalties; the Frenchman lost by one point. The Olympic boxing association says that scoring errors/fraud have only screwed up the outcome of about twenty-five fights out of 260 total . . .
--In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
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| parent )Gymnastics seems like at about the same cheating %.
... 'fight-guy commentator'. Thanks for making that phrase up. I found it helpful.
You're a real good word-making-up guy.
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| parent )but I think it is "punch-drinker."
Yeah, ten percent sucks IMO. I'm not sure gymnastics spastics equivalate, but I had some questions about the judging there, too. Difference to me is that putting the white part of the glove on your opponent's frontal head hemisphere (known as "bitch-slapping" in boxing parlance) is supposed to result in a point in boxing, so it's not the same as shaving a few hundredths of a point off a judge's scoring of a double-dipped sideways half-gainer on that hobby horse thingy.
--In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
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| parent ). . .since the overreaction to the Roy Jones fight in 1988 screwed up the scoring system. Not much to be done about it at this point.
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| parent )Nothing wrong with the posting rules, as long as we all bear in mind the following:
1. In the case of comments by anyone who often challenges liberals on Forvm and/or liberal positions and/or Democratic politicians, the definition/criteria for a posting rules violation will be broad and unfailingly cited by either mods or commenters in response to any plausible violation.
2. #1 does not apply to liberals on Forvm.
On an unrelated subject, I just saw an ad for another one of those stupid GM promotions in which "Everyone gets the employee discount". Isn't that just a price cut and elimination of an employee discount?
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)based on political philosophy. I'm not smart enough to do that even if I wanted to. It isn't possible to read every comment posted here on a daily basis, but I always read every one that I see with "Posting Rules", "PR violation" or similar in the header.
I back-pat myself as someone "who often challenges liberals on Forvm and/or liberal positions and/or Democratic politicians" but I've rarely, if ever, called someone on a claimed PR violation in their responses to my posts. The last serious one was more than a year ago, involving someone who is long gone from here. So I'm not seeing the bias you complain of.
--In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
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| parent )No responses re: the GM promotion?
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| parent )and still were entitled to the discount, it was a real one; IIRC, something like 10-15% below the lowest number you could squeeze out of a dealer. It originally was both an employee perk and a way of assuring workers would drive the same cars that they built.
The problem now is picking a GM car that is worth buying, even at a discount.
--In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
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| parent )Everyone knows what the GM employee discount is:
Godspeed, Johnny. :-)
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| parent )rules enforcement are the same people who declined moderator nominations? It's like refusing to help paint the house, then complaining about the color.
I can promise you the mods have no interest in tilting the rules towards one side or another. If you've seen conservatives get warned for minor infractions & liberals skate on more serious ones, I can guarantee you the reason is simply that the mods didn't see the 2nd one. Every one of you is free to put a "posting rules" in comments and/or email the mods if you think something needs attention. This is a community effort, folks, act accordingly.
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )In the vast majority of cases, my references to a double standard have pertained to commenters, not mods. I've pointed that out to you and others repeatedly, on some occasions in response to those who thought I was referring to mods when I wasn't. In this case (my comment here), I just meant that a non-liberal is more likely to be charged with a violation by EITHER a commenter or mod than is a liberal (sometimes a mod beats a commenter to it). But if I were to write the comment over again, I'd leave the mods out of it, so I retract that part of my comment, lest people misunderstand. I think I've seen a bit of a bias / double standard in some moderator calls, but not enough to lump it in with the blatant double standard among liberal commenters (many of whom are frequent violators themselves).
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| parent )Commenters can't make posting rules calls, and since we're 3:1 liberal these days, you'll see a lot more dogpiling of any presumed conservative violation, since the majority of the site's attention is focused there.
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )It's theoretically possible that both liberals and conservatives apply double standards to an equal degree, but that the manifestations of a double standard by liberals appear much more frequently simply by virtue of their greater numbers. I don't see that as the primary factor in what I think I'm seeing, but that could account for part of it.
Anyway, it is what it is and there's probably not much chance of changing such behavior much, although it's perfectly legit to point out what one believes is a double standard (as long as it's not clearly unreasonable) being regularly applied by commenters individually or collectively.
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| parent )FYI more liberals have been suspended than conservatives.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )...ya'll like fight'n the Man!
And we are the Man.
;-)
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )So?
You say that as if it refutes my point. How so?
1) I'm not talking about suspensions. I'm talking about commenters being told that they have violating posting rules.
2) Are you saying that the suspensions have been disproportionately liberals (as opposed to just reflecting the fact that there are more liberals here)?
3) Even if it is/were disproportionately liberals, can we just assume that that means that the standard for suspension was not applied in a favorable manner towards liberals, as opposed to the liberals in question just violating the rules to a greater degree?
4) And by the way, What period of time are you talking about? And has anyone been suspended in the past two months or so (I've been on Forvm for 11 weeks, so that's my period of reference)?
5) And what are the numbers of people involved?
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| parent )I'm not going to get in the weeds on this, I'll just say it's important to remember that anyone can (and often does) cry "posting rules!" but it doesn't mean anything unless it's a mod saying it. I don't see the double standard, but maybe it's just me.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )oh, I see. You just want to call what I've said "BS", throw out some fact as if it's some slam dunk, checkmate proof that I'm wrong when it is obviously of questionable relevance and probative value, and then decline to address the questions that would probably determine if the fact is irrelevant, misleading or both, while pretending that I'm being difficult and while maintaining an air of condescension as if you are staying above some low ground. Well done, sir.
And by the way, I don't know if the mods wish everyone to consider anyone else's (any non-mod's) claim of a posting rules violation as meaningless. I think the mods acknowledge that they can't (and wouldn't want to) be cops on the beat at all times, and want others to weigh in at least to some extent when they see what they (commenters) consider to be violations.
A half a point, though, for at least being sufficiently self-aware to acknowledge the possibility that it's just you re: not seeing the double standard.
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| parent )as I said, I just don't see it, so it's BS to me. Analyze the facts however you wish, I also don't see it as that big of an deal.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )I'm light as feather. Wait, that sounded a little weird. Scratch that. Not the there's anything wrong with that.
I just think if you're gonna call someone's point "BS" and offer some (potentially irrelevant or misleading) fact that you think proves it, you should either be willing to answer questions that determine the probative value or, if you don't want to deal with those questions, either acknowledge that your little fact doesn't really, in itself, have the probative value that you implied it does, or give some reason why it does have that value without answering those questions. Now, if you had just said "Oh BS, that's not how I see it", that would have been different (just a subjective opinion or general sense).
And I have no facts to "analyze". I have one fact that offers almost no insight into the question at hand.
Having said all that, I'm gonna catch a breeze and float away from this exchange...unless you want a knock down, drag out debate, in which case I'll transform into an iron butterfly (damn! Why didn't I go with butterfly to begin with instead of feather?!)
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| parent )uh, huh. Funny how the smart conservatives here on the forvm are a bunch of polite cosmopolitan menches... gay is fine, lifestyles of any kind are fine
Welcome to facsism, 21st century style. Big smile for the camera... if you're not guilty, what do you have to worry about?
Plasma, or LCD?
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| parent )?????? What the heck are you talking about?
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| parent )since the very 1st beginnings on the original Tacitus site when the ideological representation was reversed, on up to the present time.
I myself have been banned only once. By the Big cheeze Tacitus 'hiself, in a fit of pique regarding a discussion on China and religion. I've come close on a few occasions since then, all much closer than yesterdays little hissyfit.
--GW Bush, leading contender for worst President ever.
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| parent )some while back, and came back a better man for it.
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| parent )...is that the lovely Deanna now knows every time I slip back into the Forvm. Which leads to:
"Stop arguing with conservatives and get to work!"
Hey. Who sez it isn't work?
--To think is not enough; you must think of something -- Jules Renard
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)Your wife thinks there's a guy here named 'Damn U. Macallan'
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )From one of the usual suspects, but against a new target.
--"That Sam-I-am! That Sam-I-am! I do not like that Sam-I-am!"- Dr. Seuss
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)was born in Panama stuff that makes him a foreigner.. Silly but entertaining....
--Ask courageous questions. Do not be satisfied with superficial answers. Be open to wonder and at the same time subject all claims to knowledge, without exception, to intense skeptical scrutiny. Be aware of human fallibility. Cherish your species and your
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| parent )Thou shalt not use profanity
This rule is ill-defined, for profanity comes in a good many variants. There are the good old four-letter Saxon words, appropriate enough according my lights, but on principle alone. Any writer who depends on profanity to make his point has confused spice with the food it spices. Robin Williams had a wonderful routine about parents when their three year old says “sh**” for the first time.
While stipulating we shouldn’t apply them to each other, I find this rule patently silly. It’s widely enough abused hereabouts anyway.
Thou shalt not insult or personally attack other users
This rule is equally ill-defined, and has been pulled like taffy of late. More to the point, it should be our policy to view each others' differences as useful viewpoints. Insofar as opinion is only one view of an incomplete set of facts seen through individual preferences and prejudices, contradiction should be based on what additional facts may be presented, or a simple statement of difference.
Behind much of this Post and Not the Poster crap we have seen of late is a profound lack of respect for fellow posters, pushing every limit of reasonable conversation. You know who you are, yes you do. Yes, I’m talking to you. And I’m sick to death of it.
Try to write entries that will encourage discussion. We don't discourage disagreement, just disagreement based on personal attacks and nasty comments.
Not a rule. Anyway, old statusquobuster should be banned out of here, his diaries become fun-filled repartee, which only drives up his Crawler Cred.
Try to stay on topic, or at least limit yourself to a related topic within discussion threads. If you have a point that is entirely unrelated, it's easy enough to post a diary about it (we are generally pretty lax about this one, it's more of a guideline).
Not a rule either. Thread hijacking is a common enough thing, not sure how we’d stop it anyway, without allowing diarists the capability of removing posts, which is done on Newsvine.
Do not try to hack your way around an established policy or try to mess with the site's configuration or settings (this one will get you banned immediately and permanently).
Established policy is its own ball of wax. Dunno if anyone has tried to hack the site or goober the configs, but that’s not our real problem. Our problem is a lack of respect for each other. Respect is earned, yes, but any semblance of decorum has been trashed when we call each other know-nothings and their opinions worthless. Partisanship and strongly held opinions will not be changed. We can, however, change our opinions of each other.
I really don’t know why I’m writing this, because this stuff should be obvious. And nothing’s going to change because I wrote it. The poets always say it best: Auden
Faces along the bar
Cling to their average day:
The lights must never go out,
The music must always play,
All the conventions conspire
To make this fort assume
The furniture of home;
Lest we should see where we are,
Lost in a haunted wood,
Children afraid of the night
Who have never been happy or good.
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)so I suppose I should respond. When the site was started, most people wanted to keep the same posting rules in force at Tacitus, so I slightly rewrote them. FWIW,
- the profanity rule is mostly (in my mind) because many people view the site at work and many companies will filter sites by keyword. Those keywords usually include the famous seven words you can't say on TV. If you know anything about me you'll gather than I don't disapprove of using those kinds of words per se.
- the no personal attacks rule is meant to keep the site from devolving into endless "so's your mother!" comments. Whether or not a particular comment is a personal attack is a judgment call, which is why we elect mods.
- sure, we can have a vote about drive by diaries, I personally don't really care. I block indexing of sqb's diaries, I'm not really concerned about the nickel a year it costs to store his diaries. Besides, he may decide to participate here some day.
- like I said, we don't really enforce it, so if you guys want me to I'll erase this part. I think it's a good idea for posters to try to comment on the diary as written, at least for an initial comment, out of consideration for the author.
- I haven't detected any hack attempts either, but I put this up so no one would be surprised if they get banned for poking around. The policies I'm referring to here are technical policies and site settings.
I've told several mods over time that they're free to rewrite the rules if they want, nothing against them but my guess is that since I wrote a quick and dirty version that's good enough no one's been motivated to go and change them.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )Here's an idea. How about, in addition to the PRs, we have a Statement of Ideals, goals we strive for. We won't always meet them, true, but they'll be there as a yardstick against which we can measure both ourselves and our opponents. Here's a first draft:
Credo:
Conservatives and Liberals are different sides of the same coin. We need each other to achieve a better society.
We play hardball politics here. Don't like it? Go away. Forvm is not for you. We are tough and we don't suffer fools gladly.
Forvm is its people. Respect is the coin of this realm. Want much cred here? Write better diaries and substantiate your claims with such evidence as you can muster.
If you can't see anything true in the other poster's latest missive, you'd better look harder, for even the most dastardly lie contains at its heart a rock of fact.
Cheap shots and one liners are proof you're losing the argument. Don't you dare say someone doesn't know what he's talking about, dummies don't survive long here.
Contrariwise, don't make Appeals to Authority: know-it-alls are a pain in the ass. As every reporter worth his salt will tell you, show, don't tell.
Periodically, make it a point to agree with your opponent on something. It makes for a more civil discourse. Catch someone doing something right, every so often. Makes it more likely they'll take you seriously.
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| parent )...we suffer fools gladly and hopefully gently point out the error of their ways.
We all say stupid things, often very stupid things....and we get our backs up and refuse to give way because...because the other guy's an ass...
But we are fools ourselves at these moments and should be glad that others suffer us during our periods of brief derangement.
I guess.
Traveller
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| parent )and they can decide to adopt it, edit it, discard it or put it to a vote. It's not really up to me.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )I think a rule against it is fundamentally silly, and leads to the even more ridiculous "placeholder" words. But...
Profanity should never be directed at another commenter is a keepah.
Good job, #@*%-head!
--Excess on occasion is exhilarating. It prevents moderation from acquiring the deadening effect of a habit. - W. Somerset Maugham
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| parent )...if we're not creative enough to get around them to say what we want to say....then we're not half the lads we think we are.
And maybe then don't belong here in the first place.
My only complaint, though I do think that over time a modification has crept into place on cats paws in the sense that it is there....but we just don't acknowledge it.
And that is that Bannings or going to sit down in the corner really isn't for 30 days anymore is it? Isn't it kind of assumed that it's a couple of days, a week or two at most?
Or, is this just my wishful projection on how the rules should be applied?
Best Wishes, Traveller
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| parent )I think it's a good rule, mostly cosmetic, certainly a legacy from Tacitus.org. The best thing that rule does is provide a "check yourself" moment before posting something way over the top, kind of a Bridge Out sign for a commenter in full fury about to unleash hell.
Cosmetic in the sense that it forces us to be creative. Like screenwriters during the era of the Hays Code, or insult comics like Jackie Gleason & Don Rickles, we have to find ways to call politicians "a bunch of f--kwads" without actually saying it.
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )I prefer "aitch-ee-double-hockey-sticks" if you don't mind.
--The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.
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| parent )It is an ill-defined rule, by necessity, since by the very fact of disagreeing with someone you are implicitly criticizing their viewpoint/acumen/background/etc., and, being politics, you're criticizing your opponent on matters they probably consider important. At the same time, we all realize that the failing of most internet discussion groups, regardless of subject matter, is that interesting, informative arguments constantly get sidetracked into flamewars. A light touch on enforcing that rule has served us well in the past, as allowing people to come to their senses and come prodigaling back to the conversation on their own is usually the best outcome. Maybe with tempers running as hot as they have been, the mods should be a little more draconian. Thoughts?
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )Catchy is in favor of that, or at least automatically dumping his diaries. How do people feel about adding a rule against drive-by diaries?
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )are gonna read any stinkin' rules.
--Excess on occasion is exhilarating. It prevents moderation from acquiring the deadening effect of a habit. - W. Somerset Maugham
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| parent )take the time to explain why they view something they way they do. And what facts they base their view on... Cites and links help... The throwaway cryptic art of saying nothing constructive tires after awhile...
--Ask courageous questions. Do not be satisfied with superficial answers. Be open to wonder and at the same time subject all claims to knowledge, without exception, to intense skeptical scrutiny. Be aware of human fallibility. Cherish your species and your
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| parent )Ralph Lauren- racist, elitist, imperialist. He’s also Jewish so I guess that makes him a neo-con. I never knew any of this but I guess I’ll start buying his clothes out of solidarity.
--"That Sam-I-am! That Sam-I-am! I do not like that Sam-I-am!"- Dr. Seuss
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)Look at the picture the author of that article chose to share with the world. Have you no pity, man?
Beside...he was handed an assignment to write about Olympic fashion. I have to imagine he was coming off a 3-day bender when he sat down to start working up the draft. I know I would have been...
--Excess on occasion is exhilarating. It prevents moderation from acquiring the deadening effect of a habit. - W. Somerset Maugham
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| parent )he just copied what was in his college textbooks.
--"That Sam-I-am! That Sam-I-am! I do not like that Sam-I-am!"- Dr. Seuss
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| parent )it seems to make since and in no way is calling Ralph Lauren a racist... Elistist would fit for most of the fashion world... Imperialist I don't get that one....
The biggest sports-related news stateside has been the redesign of the U.S. uniforms by Ralph Lauren, who took the reins from Canadian company Roots. Lauren has built an empire by becoming the unofficial outfitter of the American Dream, marketing an idealized image of America's former ruling class to the nation at large. However, the WASP aesthetic he sells—think of characters from "The Great Gatsby," clothed in tennis whites and delicate tea dresses—has come to represent a classist and racist set of ideals, hardly representative of the current multicultural social fabric of the United States. A strange choice then, to redefine the U.S. team's visual identity in this way, even as it marches further away from the 20th century, when WASP power reached its peak. But if one stops to consider America's shaky status as the world's preeminent superpower, Lauren's nostalgic, retro creations begin to make more sense.
--Ask courageous questions. Do not be satisfied with superficial answers. Be open to wonder and at the same time subject all claims to knowledge, without exception, to intense skeptical scrutiny. Be aware of human fallibility. Cherish your species and your
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| parent )Olympic Couture
Nostalgic for imperial glory? Or boldly reaching for a cosmopolitan future? What a nation chooses to wear at the Olympics says a lot about its people.
The way I read the article was that the author was reading way too much into what motivated Ralph Lauren to design those uniforms. He accuses Lauren of reaching back to an racist, elitist, and imperial ideal from America's sullied past, and putting it forth as something still worth striving for. Whereas I suspect it was no more than Lauren looking at something and saying 'yeah, I like it'.
--"That Sam-I-am! That Sam-I-am! I do not like that Sam-I-am!"- Dr. Seuss
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| parent )OK, now that I have your attention. Seriously, they both trade in a nostalgic take on America that never really existed.
The only difference is that I think Mr. Lipshitz is in on the joke, and enjoys counting the money.
The linked article is absolutely hilarious.
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )Was pretty bad...quilts and cowgirl stuff. Not a fan. It felt very derivative to me.
His clothing and his home furnishings felt false...but I am a Westerner.
He does the East Coast sailing/prep school elite thing really well. Imagine William F. Buckley as a young, gorgeous model..
Americana...sort of.
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| parent )but I don't know the first thing about fashion either. My exposure to Polo began and ended in high school, when most of my frinds kept a bottle of the cologne in their cars to mask the smell of Bacardi 151 after a night of boozing and cruising.
--"That Sam-I-am! That Sam-I-am! I do not like that Sam-I-am!"- Dr. Seuss
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| parent )Not that it really matters...neither would look good on the seat of yer trousers.
--Excess on occasion is exhilarating. It prevents moderation from acquiring the deadening effect of a habit. - W. Somerset Maugham
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| parent )made sense at Tacitus, which was a vanity site (albeit very wide-open) owned by Josh. They make no sense here and amount to nothing more than a curtailment of freedom of speech. They are also predicated on the belief that no one here is either fully adult nor capable of handling themselves in public. Flamewars are only the faintest approximation of the incivility of bar-rooms, drunken parties, or city streets, which we all must navigate without constant recourse to phoning the police.
However, like the police, enforcement here is slip-shop and inconsistent (as it must be in this case, sense moderating is a thankless and unpaid job) and only engenders more ill-will than it quells.
It beats the heck out of me why the Darwinists on this site continue to take refuge in 'creative design' for commenting. Let's all graduate from kindergarten and retire the stupid rules!
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)are very much like those at Tacitus.
And the fact that Tacitus was a vanity site made application of those rules much more inconsistent at times. Summary banning based upon Josh's impatience wasn't particularly rare.
--Excess on occasion is exhilarating. It prevents moderation from acquiring the deadening effect of a habit. - W. Somerset Maugham
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| parent )it makes even less sense to port that tradition over here with us. Certainly my summary banning was no wiser or more 'patient' than any of Josh's. In any case, I think the 'rules' are one of the many things strangling this site's growth.
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| parent )I have two problems with that. First, I don't think many people lurk here, thinking to themselves "Geez, I'd like to post, but I'm scared of the brutally authoritarian mods."
Second, bigger isn't necessarily better. Most of the heavily-trafficked political sites are not worth reading, and I'd wager you don't read them yourself.
--The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.
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| parent )how else would I spot all the 'talking points' that end up here as new diaries? ;)
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| parent )as to whether your banning was quite as "summary" as some of the ones Tac executed. But I can certainly understand how your personal take on the incident would differ from mine.
I'm in favor of 'rules' for the site, but I think that a couple of them need to be more specific. It's not a good sign when one has to explain to a poster just what about their comment has drawn a warning.
--Excess on occasion is exhilarating. It prevents moderation from acquiring the deadening effect of a habit. - W. Somerset Maugham
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| parent )that you would have an opinion at all? You read the private emails that were exchanged?
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| parent )"involved", but for observing what transpired. Same situation at Tacitus...I observed what happened here on the open portion of the board. I've never banned anyone, participated in the banning of anyone, nor been banned myself.
Some of Tac's were just immediate, no questions asked, permanent account terminations. I recall a couple that consisted entirely of a terse, "You're gone".
That really doesn't happen here.
--Excess on occasion is exhilarating. It prevents moderation from acquiring the deadening effect of a habit. - W. Somerset Maugham
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| parent )I think they are predicated on the belief that people here are fully adult and capable of handling themselves in public, but it's when juvenile minds run amok and the moderators fell uneasy about flushing those turds that we have problems.
--"That Sam-I-am! That Sam-I-am! I do not like that Sam-I-am!"- Dr. Seuss
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| parent )¶ . The Posting Rules are wise.
¶ . The Posting Rules are benevolent.
¶ . The Posting Rules are good.
¶ . There is a very good reason why this true.
¶ . The reason is that without the Posting Rules, the stupid f-----s who clutter this g-----n blog with their dumb s--t comments (N--i a-----e rantings for the most part)would turn The Forvm into a mere s--t-stinking cesspool like most "discussion" blogs. And then we'd really be f----d! QED.
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)you failed to viciously attack a fellow commenter on a deeply personal level. Generically insulting the blog won't cut it, but nice work with the profanity. C+
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )I've been outside most of day and missed your response to my comment. Apologies.
You gave my comment only a C+??
G*dd*m *ssh*l*!!!!
Better?
;)
J
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| parent )- Login or register to post comments
).
--Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH
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| parent )some hyper-cryptic example of "rules"?
--Excess on occasion is exhilarating. It prevents moderation from acquiring the deadening effect of a habit. - W. Somerset Maugham
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| parent )Link.
--In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
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)
--~At times like these I am reminded of the immortal words of Socrates when he said...."I drank what?"
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)Oh you mean my soundtrack? It follows me everywhere I go.
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )At least this tune doesn't follow you everywhere you go.
--"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead." -- Paris Hilton
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| parent )your's would be more like this, I would think.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )hArd tipen inn thiiiiis jaackit
--“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”
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| parent )click the adblock tab at this comment.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )
--~At times like these I am reminded of the immortal words of Socrates when he said...."I drank what?"
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| parent )and download and install Adblock plus
--Excess on occasion is exhilarating. It prevents moderation from acquiring the deadening effect of a habit. - W. Somerset Maugham
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| parent )DLed the Adblock Plus, went to Hanks comment, clicked on the ABP, and it says "No Blockable Items" on current page.
Just forget it. I'll wait for the next open thread to have some fun.....cause this sure isn't. ;-(
--~At times like these I am reminded of the immortal words of Socrates when he said...."I drank what?"
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| parent )Perhaps this isn't a "technical" issue?
What music are you hearing? Do you find that it sorta follows you around the room?
--Excess on occasion is exhilarating. It prevents moderation from acquiring the deadening effect of a habit. - W. Somerset Maugham
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| parent )Hacker uncovers more evidence of underage Chinese gymnasts missed by censors.
I hope the censor who failed to deep-six that evidence adequately isn't a drug addict, for the sake of whoever inherits his vital organs next week.
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)Love the music!
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)it means Jordan is watching you!
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )Since the This McCain Smear diary went over 300 comments, Drupal has split it into two pages. This causes a problem with viewing it, since you have to scroll down to the bottom of the first page to hit "next" to see additional comments. I've modified the site so that now under Comment Viewing options you can pick 500 comments per page as the maximum. I advise everyone to do this, it doesn't affect performance on shorter diaries but it keeps the longer ones on a single page.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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)I'll pass this on just in case it means anything to you, Hank--when I go to the front page, I get the pop-up that usually means that I've tried to open a Quicktime movie, though I don't see any Quicktime movies on the front page. Is this supposed to be happening?
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| parent )when I added the music to this diary for Jordan, drupal apparently added it to the code generated for the front page since the diary was on the front page. I moved it to a comment here so it should only affect people with this specific diary loaded.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )