*Were* there protests before the Benghazi attack? [UPDATED]

As Mitt Romney recently learned in a fairly painful lesson, you don't assign blame before you have the facts. Nobody currently has all of the facts about what happened in Benghazi, but what is interesting is how many conclusions are being based on a single unsourced conference call about the events of 9/11/12.

 

As we all know by now, the State Department disavowed early reports that the attack on the Benghazi consulate was "spontaneous" or "had arisen following protests" against that youtube video. Specifically, last Tuesday, 10/9, a pair of unnamed State Department officials on background told reporters in a conference call

"The ambassador walked guests out at 8:30 or so; there was nobody on the street. Then at 9:40 they saw on the security cameras that there were armed men invading the compound," a senior State Department official said. "Everything is calm at 8:30 pm, there is nothing unusual. There had been nothing unusual during the day outside."

Asked about earlier State Dept. reports that there had been protests at the consulate similar to those which had been raging at the embassy in Cairo and elsewhere, and whether the attacks had evolved spontaneously from the protests, the unnamed officials said "That is not our conclusion. We don't necessarily have a conclusion about that."

 

Obviously this contradicts earlier claims from the Obama administration, particularly those from UN Ambassador Susan Rice. But more interestingly, it *also* contradicts earlier reporting from multiple sources that described protesters at the gate. 

 

The New York Times:

Fighters involved in the assault, which was spearheaded by an Islamist brigade formed during last year’s uprising against Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, said in interviews during the battle that they were moved to attack the mission by anger over a 14-minute, American-made video that depicted the Prophet Muhammad, Islam’s founder, as a villainous, homosexual and child-molesting buffoon.

"A group of armed assailants mixed with unarmed demonstrators gathered at the small compound that housed a temporary American diplomatic mission" in Benghazi. "Interviewed at the scene on Tuesday night, many attackers and those who backed them said they were determined to defend their faith from the video’s insults," the Times reported.

Reuters:

The attackers were part of a mob blaming America for a film they said insulted the Prophet Mohammad.

Washington Post:

By late Tuesday evening, as many as 50 heavily armed militants had gathered outside its high walls.

 

 

They joined protesters outside the consulate who were demonstrating against an American movie that they believed denigrated the prophet Muhammad. But according to one witness, the new arrivals neither chanted slogans nor carried banners.

 

“They said, ‘We are Muslims defending the prophet. We are defending Islam,’ ” Libyan television journalist Firas Abdelhakim said in an interview.

Stevens, who had spent many years in Libya, had arrived Monday from the embassy in Tripoli for a week of routine meetings. A friend who spent Monday and Tuesday with him said Stevens held meetings with nongovernmental organizations and militia leaders on both days. When the friend dropped Stevens off at the consulate Tuesday afternoon, he said, nothing appeared to be amiss — beyond the protesters.

 

 

The first protesters had showed up around noon. Wanis al-Sharif, the deputy Libyan interior minister, said in an interview that the demonstrators were angered by a low-budget American film that portrayed the prophet Muhammad in a blasphemous manner. As the day wore on, Sharif said, the anger escalated and people with weapons infiltrated the crowd.

Reuters and the Times are both standing by their early reporting. Unlike the conference call everyone is basing conclusions on, the early reports were actually sourced to named eye witnesses, Libyan government and security officials, and even interviews with the actual protester/attackers and their supporters on the scene before and during the attack.

 

Why would these two unnamed sources in the State Department disavow reports of protests outside the gate? It's hard to say. But consider this, the same sources on the same conference call also claimed:

"There had been no attacks like that anywhere in Libya in the time that we had been there. So it was unprecedented," the official said. "In fact, there hasn't been an attack like that in recent diplomatic history."

This is itself inaccurate: Benghazi has seen a string of violent attacks in recent weeks and months, including an attack on a British convoy, an rpg attack on the International Red Cross/Red Crescent, and a bomb exploded at the gates of this same compound. Without speculating at all about motives, we can see that the individuals offering this information are not themselves entirely well-informed on recent events in Benghazi. Given the lack of factual accuracy reported on this call, we should suspect other factual claims, particularly when they contradict multiple independently-sourced independent reports about the attacks.

 

I'd submit that hanging this entire argument from one unsourced conference call, when multiple earlier sources offer a consistently different picture of the day's events, would be a mistake.

 

 

[UPDATE:]

According to the New York Times, and unfortunately for ever-hopeful Republican propagandists, the consulate attackers who killed Ambassador Stevens were local militants, not al Qaeda fighters, and they were acting out of anger in response to the video, not carrying out a pre-planned & coordinated attack. This is according to the words of the attackers themselves, to video evidence, and to accounts from local Libyans in Benghazi who know the attackers, know the militias, and know something about their motivations.

To those on the ground, the circumstances of the attack are hardly a mystery. Most of the attackers made no effort to hide their faces or identities, and during the assault some acknowledged to a Libyan journalist working for The New York Times that they belonged to [Ansar al-Shariah]. And their attack drew a crowd, some of whom cheered them on, some of whom just gawked, and some of whom later looted the compound.

 

The fighters said at the time that they were moved to act because of the video, which had first gained attention across the region after a protest in Egypt that day. The assailants approvingly recalled a 2006 assault by local Islamists that had destroyed an Italian diplomatic mission in Benghazi over a perceived insult to the prophet. In June the group staged a similar attack against the Tunisian Consulate over a different film, according to the Congressional testimony of the American security chief at the time, Eric A. Nordstrom.

 

At a news conference the day after the ambassador and three other Americans were killed, a spokesman for Ansar al-Shariah praised the attack as the proper response to such an insult to Islam. “We are saluting our people for this zeal in protecting their religion, to grant victory to the prophet,” the spokesman said. “The response has to be firm.”

 

Other Benghazi militia leaders who know the group say its leaders and ideology are all homegrown. Those leaders, including Ahmed Abu Khattala and Mohammed Ali Zahawi, fought alongside other commanders against Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi. Their group provides social services and guards a hospital. And they openly proselytize for their brand of puritanical Islam and political vision.

 

They profess no interest in global fights against the West or distant battles aimed at removing American troops from the Arabian Peninsula.

As the facts become clearer it is more and more apparent that the Obama administration's handling of this case has been largely accurate, and appropriately cautious. It appears that the attack *was* in response to the video, that it *was* a relatively spontaneous and improvised attack, and that it was not a coordinated terror strike of the kind associated with global terror groups. The connection with Al Qaeda in the Maghreb appears to be tenuous, and attributing this attack to al Qaeda, the way Republicans have rushed to do, only puts an entirely undeserved notch in that organization's belt. 

Other Benghazi militia leaders who know Ansar al-Shariah say it was capable of carrying out the attack by itself with only a few hours’ planning, and as recently as June one of its leaders, Mr. Zahawi, declared that it could destroy the American Mission.

United States intelligence officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, have said they intercepted boastful phone calls after the fact from attackers at the mission to individuals affiliated with Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb. But they have also said that so far they had found no evidence of planning or instigation by the group. James Clapper, the director of national intelligence, described the participation of individuals “linked to groups affiliated with or sympathetic with Al Qaeda” — acknowledging, at best, a tenuous or indirect link.

 

“It is a promiscuous use of ‘Al Qaeda,’ ” Michael Hanna, a researcher at the Century Foundation, said of those charging that Al Qaeda was behind this attack. “It can mean anything or nothing at all.”

 

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One,

(#293078)
Bird Dog's picture

the conclusion that there wasn't a protest isn't just based on a conference call from an unnamed State Dept official.

Two, Reuters and the NYT are offering conflicting accounts. Reuters here. NYT here.

According to guards at the compound, the attack began at about 9:30 p.m., without warning or any peaceful protest.

There is the possibility that protesters showed up at the exact same time as militant Islamists. There is also the possibility that protests served as a cover for an attack.

Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

I'll stick with eyewitness reports attributed to named sources,

(#293080)

rather than after-the-fact spin, as we await investigation details. I'd recommend everyone do that. For now at least, it's abundantly clear that claims the administration "lied" about its characterization of the attacks are based on little more than Republican wishful thinking.

M Aurelius was probably right.

So the eyewitness accounts of the guards at the compound...

(#293083)
Bird Dog's picture

...are not eyewitness reports? Ooookay.

There is the other possibility that there were protests in Benghazi, just not at the ambassador's residence.

Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

Contradicted by half a dozen other accounts, is my point.

(#293084)

The point here is that the information is contradictory. Some say there were protests starting at noon (Reuters), others that protesters showed up at the same time as the armed attackers (Times) and still others that there were never any peaceful protests at all (State Dept., parroted by many others). 

 

Pretty clear indication that the facts are not all in.

M Aurelius was probably right.

Yes, there is conflicting information

(#293086)
Bird Dog's picture

Which is why the Obama administration has a problem. They went on record, stating that these protests triggered by a video and denied that this was a premeditated attack. Had they said there was conflicting information, then this wouldn't have been an issue. But it is an issue, and now they're trying to run out the clock.

Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

That's not a problem, it's tut-tutting about "timing."

(#293088)

From the conflicting available evidence, it looks possible even today to characterize the attack as something that evolved out of a lower-grade incident. "Cars streaming towards the consulate for over an hour prior to the attacks," doesn't sound like a pre-planned, coordinated strike any more than the public demonstrations forcing the militias out of Benghazi sound pre-planned or coordinated. It sounds like there are heavily armed, battle-hardened militias in the city who are ready and able to carry out rapid strikes on short notice.

 

Facts not in evidence.

M Aurelius was probably right.

Also

(#293085)
Bird Dog's picture

If eyewitness accounts are the coin of the realm, then CBS News reported the following:

Witnesses of last week's deadly attack on a U.S. consulate in Libya have told CBS News that the alleged anti-American protest that U.S. officials say morphed into the assault never actually took place.

 

Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

Here is al-Jazeera's reporting on that day

(#293109)
mmghosh's picture

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/09/20129112108737726.html

 

The real mystery to me is why Mr Stevens went to Benghazi with such a light escort. After all, he was the man on the ground - the one best able to gauge the threat. And its not even the case that the attackers were foreigners, from all accounts.  Did he or his Libyan colleagues misjudge the strength of Ansar al-Sharia, given his knowledge of seemingly pro-US Benghazi?

 

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2012/09/2012922102327532674.html

Friday night's raids followed protests earlier in the day when around 30,000 protesters from the Save Benghazi group marched through the city's al-Kish Square, which was a key battleground in the uprising that overthrew Gaddafi.

 

At the same time, about 3,000 supporters of Ansar al-Sharia group gathered in the same area. Waving black Islamic flags, they chanted against the anti-Islam video as also cartoons of Prophet Muhammad published by a French satirical weekly.
Next, hundreds of demonstrators chanting "Libya, Libya" entered Ansar al-Sharia's headquarters, pulling down militia flags and torching a vehicle inside what was once an internal-security base under former leader Muammar Gaddafi.
People in the crowd waved swords and even a meat cleaver, shouting "No more al-Qaeda!" and "The blood we shed for freedom shall not go in vain!"
They tore down the banner of group while chanting “No! No to the brigades”.
After raiding Ansar al-Sharia's headquarters, the crowd swelled until it had reached thousands. Hundreds of vehicles backed up a highway as youths from across Benghazi converged on the city's western Hawari district to raid the headquarters of Rafallah Sehati, an official brigade of the Libyan defence ministry.

Conspiracy?

So there were massive protests during the day in Benghazi,

(#293120)

not necessarily at the site of the consulate, but also not necessarily a long distance away. That's a bit different from saying there were "no" protests, I would say.

M Aurelius was probably right.

It still doesn't explain why a US Ambassador was in Benghazi

(#293121)
mmghosh's picture

with such little security.  From what we know about Mr Stevens, he was pretty much in the thick of the Libyan revolution from the middle if not from the beginning, and he must have had a better understanding of the situation on the ground - better than the State Department at least, or the CIA.  He doesn't appear to have been a particularly gung-ho type either, seeking out confrontation for the sake of it.

 

It is also relevant, as Traveller point out, that he didn't die from direct assault but rather from smoke inhalation as a result of an injudicious selection of a place to retreat into.

 

It seems to me to be pretty relevant that he seems to have been (1) deliberately misinformed or (2) lured into a trap.  That would indicate a high level of planning - not just the usual mindless al-Qaeda type car bombing or suicide-vest bombing.

No evidence he was led into a trap: smoke inhalation

(#293123)

is an awfully indirect & imprecise way to assassinate someone. Stevens wasn't "gung-ho" but like you said he was deep in the thick of the revolution and apparently, if not heedless of his own safety, at least willing to run a great deal of personal risk in order to do his job. The civilians in Benghazi appear to have legitimately respected him for that. 

 

Video of the attacks shows that they were anything but "precise." This wasn't Seal Team Six, although the attack may have been planned (or let's say contemplated) for some time in advance. Also the attackers appear to have had some inside intel/inside assistance, at least enough to know where the "secret" safehouse was located. 

 

Also some reports say the Libyan security guards were sent away early in the fighting, supposedly on the theory that they didn't want to provoke a confrontation. 

 

In any case, again, there's a tremendous amount of confusion around the events, and drawing hard fact-based conclusions is foolish at this stage.

M Aurelius was probably right.

Have you ever seen the security apparat of diplomatic staff

(#293125)
mmghosh's picture

of the US in the Third World? 

 

Our local Consular staff live in a virtual Kremlin.  We have to pass 3 levels of security for visa applications.  Ambassadors do not travel without pretty heavy and obvious security.

 

Ok, so they weren't Seal Team Six.  But pretty effective, given the resources available - compare IEDtech to dronetech.

every dog on the street would have known

(#293238)

about the safe house I would think.

Wrong word

(#293242)

More like secure room.

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

Actually more like half the residence was gated off,

(#293247)

meaning it wasn't anything like a combat bunker or bomb shelter. 

M Aurelius was probably right.

And Stevens was killed by smoke inhalation

(#293251)

Most likely by accident as the attackers trashed the place and likely didn't even know he was in there.

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

If someone dies due to arson,

(#293253)
Bird Dog's picture

the charge is murder. When you light cans of fuel in a building, you've committed arson.

Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

It couldn't have been a premeditated assassination

(#293269)

because there's no way to be sure someone is going to die of smoke inhalation. The attackers didn't bring diesel fuel with them, they found and used it improvisationally at the compound. All of this suggests a chaotic, improvised attack.

M Aurelius was probably right.

I'd give more credit to AJ than anyone else.

(#293237)

Unlike the western journalists they know what they are talking about. The only time to doubt them a little is when they report on certain gulf states.

And then there's...

(#293112)
Bird Dog's picture

...video evidence.

Video footage from the United States consulate in Benghazi, Libya, taken the night of the Sept. 11 anniversary attacks, shows an organized group of armed men attacking the compound, according to two U.S. intelligence officials who have seen the footage and are involved in the ongoing investigation. The footage, which was recovered from the site last week by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, offers some of the most tangible evidence yet that a military-style assault took place, according to these officials.

Here's what I think.

One, there may have been protests and protesters in Benghazi on 9/11, and they may very well have been upset about a video.

Two, those protesters were not at the U.S. Consulate prior to the assault, which occurred at around 9:30 or 9:40pm.

Three, if there were protesters at the U.S. Consulate at 9:40pm or shortly thereafter, then they were with the terrorists or they joined them after seeing the fireworks.

Four, all of those articles you linked to were dated September 12th, which was a fog of war situation. Given events in Cairo, I'm sure that reporters were trying to connect Cairo and Benghazi. After all, violence occurred in Cairo because of a video, so it stands to reason that violence occurred in Benghazi because of a video. But Cairo isn't Benghazi.

Five, Benghazi is an epicenter of militant Islamism in Libya, as evidenced by intelligence and multiple attacks prior to 9/11.

Six, when there are murders of Americans on the anniversary of 9/11 in the Middle East, the logical conclusion is that those murders were planned operations by al Qaeda or sympathetic affiliate.

Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

BD, that's about the fairest read I've seen so far.

(#293117)

I'll repeat that I don't fault Obama for the attack in the first place.  It's the risk of conducting affairs in the ME.  The inadequacy of security?  Again, I don't expect Obama to personally review the security of every installation we have on foreign soil.  As facts get digested we'll likely find that the fault, if any is to be found, lies somewhere between the consulate and mid-level DOS bureaucracy.  I do fault him for selling the BS you address in #6. 

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

And here's what you're missing:

(#293122)

1) Reporters were getting information from eyewitnesses at the consulate itself. Whatever they were trying to "connect," their sources had no reason to make things up. 

 

2) Amb. Stevens was rescued by people who were at the scene of the attack, and who broke in while fighting was still happening. He was brought to the hospital around 1 am, and the embassy wasn't completely secured & attackers driven off until 2 am. That means perforce that there were many more people at the scene than merely the attackers, some supporting hostilities, some protesting but not attacking, some trying to help, none authorized to be on the grounds, etc. This is the definition of a very noisy situation.

 

3) There's quite a bit of video where you can see unarmed civilians in the compound. The allahu akbars in the 2nd vid are because they believe the Ambassador is alive, and can be rescued.

 

4) See Manish's link. There were massive protests, some violent, in Benghazi throughout the day. They may not have been directly at the gates of the consulate, but it doesn't stretch credulity to imagine that some of those protesters transformed into attackers after dark fell.

 

There's every reason to think the administration's interpretation of events was plausible at the time, and there's no reason to chastise them for waiting for facts on the ground before changing their story. No reason, that is, unless your presidential campaign is floundering and you're desperate to find some dirt that'll stick to Obama.

M Aurelius was probably right.

That protesters were at the consulate...

(#293129)
Bird Dog's picture

...does not contradict items 2 and 3. The video doesn't lie, and four diplomatic security personnel said that there were no protests at the consulate prior to the attack. Because of the unexpectedness of it all, the reporters were there after the fact, trying to make sense of a chaotic situation. There is also the fact that our intelligences knew that this was a terrorist attack within hours of it occurring, yet the administration made hardline denials for weeks that this wasn't the case. This is nothing short of dishonest and deceptive on the part of the president you voted for.

Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

That's not coherent. Items 2&3 are proof that non-attackers

(#293135)

were on the scene in large numbers, during the fighting. This completely undercuts the notion that the only people at the consulate were trained al Qaeda affiliated (or whatever) terrorists. Clearly there were many times more people on the scene than there were armed attackers...some appear to be protesters, some appear to be bystanders, some good samaritans. 

 

What this proves is the notion that "this was a pre-planned terror attack" is not an obvious call to make even now.

M Aurelius was probably right.

It's completely coherent

(#293254)
Bird Dog's picture

In fact, it's the only scenario that makes sense. Video and interviews with security personnel made it clear that there were no protesters outside the consulate prior to the attack. This has to mean that the protesters were either with the militant Islamists or came by when they heard or saw the attack.

EDIT: Also, the intelligence community made its determination.

The DNI is led by retired Air Force Gen. James Clapper, and has oversight over 16 other US intelligence agencies.
“As we learned more about the attack, we revised our initial assessment to reflect new information indicating that it was a deliberate and organized terrorist attack carried out by extremists,” Turner said.

But their initial assessment makes no sense, given the intelligence learned shortly thereafter. Also, you don't bring assault rifles, RPGs and mortars to a protest if your intentions are peaceful.

Government is merely a servant – merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

Summary of the event

(#293139)

per a State Dept. briefing here

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias