This won't make me any friends


If you are a supporter of either of the two democratic candidates for president, you're being a bit foolish to expect the other of the two to "do the right thing" and step aside "for the good of the party". See, the thing is neither of the candidates is "tearing the party apart", they're both just trying to win. They are both too close to winning to assume that either they, or any of their advisors, or people who donated money to them, or people who just want them to win, would believe it's time to throw in the towel. Nobody gets this far if they have the type of personality that would even consider quitting at this stage.

It's not going to happen, and you're only going to drive yourself nuts if you *expect* it to happen.

Sorry.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

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“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”

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It made you one friend. (#85208)
by Punditus Maximus

I agree with this completely -- I would only expect Senator Clinton or Obama to step aside once it is clear that the only way to win would be to create a situation so divisive that the general would be unwinnable.

And that is currently not at all clear.

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It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.

A big super-delegate swing FOR Clinton (#85154)
by Bill White

could signal a reprise of 1976 and Ford / Reagan. Ford won that nomination battle.

Interesting "what if" (IMHO) is the counter-factual Ford defeats Carter in 1976. Does Ronald Reagan ever become President?

= = =

The Iraq War is bankrupting America. POTUS McCain will only exacerbate that situation and in 2012 public anger at the Republicans and the Clinton-ian Democrats would be at a fever pitch.

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Fence post turtles -- They don't get up there by themselves, some moron had to put 'em there.

Ford Would Have Been Ineligible. . . (#85159)
by M Scott Eiland

. . .for re-election in 1980--and might not have made the same blunders Carter did: for one thing, there is some evidence to suggest that Mr. Ford wouldn't have hesitated to deal a certain collection of Iranian punks a painful lesson. Reagan would be the obvious frontrunner among Republicans in 1980--who would the Democrats have put up against him? Captain Teddy?

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Any in case... (#85210)
by Jay C

The outcome of the Mayaguez/Koh Tang operation - at least as described in your link - doesn't seen wildly dissimilar from the results of the actual hostage rescue attempt in Tehran (a little improvement, of course, as the "hostages" were eventually rescued; but operationally about the same).

Even if Reagan (as seems likely) would have gotten the Republican nomination in 1980 regardless, his eventual election with the problems of Afghanistan and Iran hanging around the necks of a Republican, rather than a Democratic Administration is far from a certainty. Of course, running against Ted Kennedy might have made a difference...

What lesson would a "Mayaquez" (#85190)
by Bill White

episode have taught the Iranian mullahs? Would we have sought to re-install the Shah?

Same problem we have today. We can bomb the bleep out of Iran but how does that help us achieve our objectives? Until the global economy is weaned from petroleum dependency we have very little real leverage over Persian Gulf nations.

Ford might have presented a more "macho" visage than Carter but what could he have really done differently? With the Tehran hostages and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan?

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Fence post turtles -- They don't get up there by themselves, some moron had to put 'em there.

just maybe with someone other than Jimmy (#85221)
by Timmy

the Shah would have never left.

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“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961

The "rubber bullets" argument (#85239)
by stillnotking

I guess the French nobility just needed more wooden swords.

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The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.

Ford was an incumbent (#85158)
by stillnotking

in a party that values tradition and comity and other stuff like that. Reagan's primary challenge was quixotic.

Bankruptcy doesn't happen during the shopping spree. It happens after. In ten or twenty years, hard-faced Chinese men will be repo'ing our national sofa.

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The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.

Back in 2002 / 2003 I recall posting a comment (#85188)
by Bill White

somewhere saying that the Iraq War will cost "us" Taiwan eventually.

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Fence post turtles -- They don't get up there by themselves, some moron had to put 'em there.

Will you be my friend? (#85136)
by stillnotking

I agree with you, of course. Neither Hillary nor Obama will voluntarily step aside. A big super delegate swing could easily force the issue, though. I still think that's more likely than a contested convention.

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The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.

You have friends? (#85122)
by HankP

I thought Republicans only had interests. :)

Yeah, I agree, there's too long to go and too many things that could happen for anyone to withdraw on their own. Add in the fighting words that the media puts up every night, and some people go overboard.

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I blame it all on the Internet

Both campaigns are also (#85100)
by Jordan

going to ratchet up the "water's edge" rhetoric, and any momentary advantage will be taken as opportunity to demand the other side stand down so the real fight can begin. I think that *is* the regularly scheduled program.

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Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. -JH

To tell you the truth... (#85091)
by Wagster

My problem isn't that Hillary is still in it. It's what she's doing to still be in it.

Saying that the results from the Michigan primary are fair and should be counted when she was the only one on the ballot and said at the time that she wasn't participating -- well, that's trying to steal an election. It shows a disdain for democracy.

At this point, if Hillary won I would have to give serious thought to voting for McCain. I disagree with him on nearly everything, and I know McCain is quite willing to taper his views to win an election... on immigration and torture, to name two issues. But at this stage McCain hasn't crossed any red lines -- yet. Hillary has shown that she'll do literally anything for power, and I'm scared to put somebody like that in the White House.

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More Wagster!

The Red Sox won the World Series (#85090)
by Blue Neponset

As a result I no longer believe in the impossible.

I think Hildog will bow out once the "party elders" decide it hurts the party for her to continue. This may not happen for another two months, but I just can't picture a contested convention. I am not so sure Hillary actually cares about the Party but I think her supporters do, and they won't let it go on if there is no point. I've been wrong about Hillary before though so who knows?

--

But she's a queen, and such are queens
that your laughter is sucked in their brains. -D. Bowie

actually they won it twice in this century (#85103)
by Timmy

The problem with your scenario is simply, the "party elder" who could make a difference is fully vested in Hillary's campaign.

The problem the Dems face is there are material windows of time where nothing is going to happen and in this 24/7 news environment any missteps will make news.

Since nature abhors a vaccum, someone will fill it.

--

“Let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.”
John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961

BN: your sig ... (#85094)
by hobbesist

wins the internet.

--

Brevis esse laboro, obscurus fio.

Fie on you, enemy. -nt- (#85089)
by hobbesist

--

Brevis esse laboro, obscurus fio.

You're short a fee, (#85092)
by Macallan

a fo and a fum.

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“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”

So much, I guess (#85093)
by hobbesist

... for my Luis impression.

--

Brevis esse laboro, obscurus fio.

Nobody's upset at the election continuing (#85087)
by Username

In fact, it's great that it does, so that voters in the remaining states get energized for the general and the media maintains its focus on the Democrats rather than McCain.

What people are objecting to is the manner in which Hillary is running her campaign. It really does harm the party when a candidate with nearly half the votes is making the case that the Republican candidate is better fit for the job than the other Democratic candidate with about half of the votes.

Are The Underpant Gnomes. . . (#85129)
by M Scott Eiland

. . .working as election pundits these days?

1. Brutal primary
2. ? ? ? ? ?*
3. Happy, energized voters who don't care that their candidate just got done dirty by the nominee.

*--presumably either some Black Jesus Mojo (TM) or witchcraft of the more "conventional" variety.

--

Sure, if you misrepresent what I said (#85164)
by Username

The greatest South Park episode of all time (#85134)
by corky

Time to go to work,
Work all day,
We need underpants hey!
We won't stop until we have underpants!
Yum tum yummy tum tay!
Time to go to work,
Work all night,
Search for underpants yay!
We won't stop until we have underpants!
Yum tum yummy tum tay!

--

Envy was once considered to be one of the deadly sins before it became one of the most admired virtues under its new name, social justice. --Thomas Sowell

Nope. (#85130)
by Pranky

The Gnomes are completely booked running US foreign policy through next January.

"...voters in the remaining states get energized..." (#85098)
by hobbesist

Yeah, I guess that's one possibility. It's not the only one, and I'm not convinced it's the most likely one.

--

Brevis esse laboro, obscurus fio.

It's always possible that.... (#85128)
by Bernard Guerrero
You don't think that high primary turnout (#85165)
by Username

correlates with election enthusiasm?

You should see a doctor about that. (#85146)
by hobbesist

Or at least a circus sideshow, to earn a little extra cash.

--

Brevis esse laboro, obscurus fio.

I agree. (#85086)
by Pranky

Also, you should go into life situations with a more positive attitude about making friends.

Well said (#85083)
by Vuelta

I agree completely.

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