In our family we had always known that my engineer grandfather had emigrated to the USA before WW1 - to the Detroit area, we think - where the newly developing automobile industry had employment opportunities. Why America? Emigration to the USA was unusual for people from here - Britain and Europe was the natural region.
As a family we had no opportunity to discuss why he went, what he did there, and most importantly, perhaps, why he felt he had to return after 8 years. Was he following an American dream, and why did it turn sour - sour enough to never mention the experience? In those days, crossing the "Black Water" was social and religious taboo for the orthodox here - after return to his provincial village, he had to spend 2 weeks living out side the main house and prayers had to be offered as "expiation" for the sin of leaving the sacred soil of the country. How bizarre these rituals must have seemed to him, after 8 years in the land of the free! The only memory of his stay in the USA is his old Keuffel and Esser slide rule stamped "1908" (which I still haven't worked out how to use).
In the past 25 years, several of the family (and extended family) emigrated to the USA. Why now, in spite of better opportunities that have developed here in the past decades? They followed a trend. Perhaps they are better at grabbing available opportunities, opportunities that were not available pre WW1. It is interesting in itself that such opportunities are available at all, in that native Americans obviously do not think that they are worthwhile enough to take up in numbers - in spite of the opportunities being highly-paying.
According to the 2000 U.S. census, the overall growth rate for Indians from 1990 to 2000 was 105.87 percent. The average growth rate for the whole of USA was only 7.6 percent. --- According to the 2010 U.S. Census, Indian Americans had the highest household income of all ethnic groups in the United States. According to the American Association of Physicians of Indian Origin, there are close to 35,000 Indian American doctors.[23] Among Indian Americans, 72.3% participate in the U.S. work force, of which 57.7% are employed in managerial and professional specialties.[24] In 2002, there were over 223,000 Asian Indian-owned firms in the U.S., employing more than 610,000 workers, and generating more than $88 billion in revenue.[25
The "acceptable immigrant" has always been an interesting phenomenon. Hobbesist pointed me to Albion's Seed, indeed a fascinating read all round, since I worked for many years in those parts of England where the four designated cultures arose. I'm interested in getting more perspectives, and have ordered "Ethnic America" by Thomas Sowell and Different Mirror by Ronald Takaki. Any other suggestions?
Oh and btw
(#279941)we're on tour in the US, so if anyone wants to organise a meetup, I'm game. June 1st LA, June 10th NYC.
literally anything can become right or wrong if the dominant class of the moment so wills it
June 10th NYC? I'll be there! -nt-
(#279948).
M Aurelius was probably right.
With the missus, please!
(#279969)-
literally anything can become right or wrong if the dominant class of the moment so wills it
And I, again, if I can.... nt
(#279949).
Mmghosh, thanks for this post, for two reasons
(#279957)First, the trivial. It's simply fantastic that an Indian is using the term 'native american' but not refering to what most Americans consider either indian or native american. That's just hitting my funny bone for some reason.
Second, I find this topic very interesting. My family on my mother's side has a back and forth thing with Ireland. Myself, brother and all cousins (except one) were born on US soil, none of my mother or her siblings were. My mother obviously lived in the US prior to my birth, but so did her mother and grandmother, also all of my mother's siblings have i(e)mmigrated back and forth between the US and Ireland at least once. To be clear, these weren't visits, these were stays of several years in each case.
We know why they did it. A janitor's wage in the US was comfortable living in Ireland for most of the last 90 years. They came to the US, worked like dogs and saved for the purpose of moving back across the pond with money in hand. Huge difference culturally though. The practice was certainly not frowned upon, I might even say it was encouraged. Every household in the village my mother is from can claim at least one immediate family member living in the US, many still expessing an intent to return.
In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome.
Janitor's wage in the US
(#279968)would allow a pretty comfortable life anywhere else. On a 1st May, one should remember that they had to fight for these things IIRC!
As for moving to Ireland, that is just such an eminently sensible retirement plan. Miami, without the mosquitoes.
literally anything can become right or wrong if the dominant class of the moment so wills it
Which village is that
(#279972)if you don't mind me asking... don't feel obliged to answer if you'd rather not.
It's called Sonnagh
(#279979)As near as I can tell there are a few Sonnagh's in Ireland, the one I'm talking about is a mile or two west of Charlestown, Co Mayo, or ~4 miles east of Swinford. I called it a village for lack of a better term, but I've never heard it named in any fashion except 'Sonnagh'.
If you cut and paste these coordinates in Google Map it'll center you on an old ring fort that's maybe 500 feet south of the crossroads in the middle of the 'village' it just looks like a clump of trees on the screen though.
53.957058,-8.835728
In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome.
nyoos, I have to walk that back a bit
(#279980)The area properly called Sonnagh encompasses quite a few more households than I thought. I had believed it to be just those few houses near the point on the map I wrote above.
In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome.
Thanks!!
(#280360)I was just curious to see if I knew it - I might have met a Darth Cuddly Cousin or two. It's a little east and north into Mayo for that to be likely. Now had it been Balla...
Ah ,sweet Balla Co Mayo.
Good deal Nyoos, I ought to know that area...
(#280364)...better but I really don't. On my father's side we can trace the male ancestry back to Ballina where my surname is fairly common but we have no real connection to the place or people other than that. My mom owns property near Foxford and I've had family that lived in Claremorris, but they moved years ago. The last time I was in Ireland for vacation I had run around all over that area so I can imagine that at one time or another I had passed through the town but I have no relations or any connection to the place that would cause me to remember it specifically.
In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome.
Why do so many Indians emigrate to the US?
(#280001)As a very funny Indian American comic put it, it's because you guys are medical technician and programmer brown, not yard work and crop picking brown.
I blame it all on the Internet
Poverty wages in America average $2000 pm
(#280116)which is what a middle-grade executive makes here. That's why we emigrate.
http://www.epi.org/publication/bp341-future-of-work/
literally anything can become right or wrong if the dominant class of the moment so wills it
Wages aren't everything
(#280118)my understanding is that the cost of living there is very low - said executive might have a butler/chauffer and/or a cook/housecleaner at that income level.
I blame it all on the Internet
Cooks and housecleaners are much less important
(#280121)than cash.
literally anything can become right or wrong if the dominant class of the moment so wills it
PPP estimate
(#280123)when converted via the nominal exchange rates GDP per capita in India is about US$1,704.063[6] while on a PPP basis it is about US$3,608.196. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity
So, roughly, earning 2k per month in the US is about the equivalent of earning $900 per month in India.
A doctor qualified for 5 years is offered $470 pm
(#280125)[url=http://www.sarkarikhazana.com/2011/02/medical-officers-required-at-india.html]this is an ad in February 2012[/url].
Welcome to the ROW, catchy!
literally anything can become right or wrong if the dominant class of the moment so wills it
No
(#280759)That's only true when you have cooks and housecleaners.
When you are used to them but can no longer afford them, they become important.
All you are saying is that people give importance to that which they don't have, and tend to take for granted that which they do. A lot of Indians go back once they figure this out.
I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.