Enclosures Open Thread

mmghosh's picture

I used to be a fan of George Monbiot, until he went off the rails over Climategate.  He did concede his error, though, which was mighty gracious of him.

 

He returned to his vituperative best recently, as this article shows.

The UK now has a natural capital committee, an Ecosystem Markets Task Force and an inspiring new lexicon. We don't call it nature any more: now the proper term is "natural capital". Natural processes have become "ecosystem services", as they exist only to serve us. Hills, forests and river catchments are now "green infrastructure", while biodiversity and habitats are "asset classes" within an "ecosystem market". All of them will be assigned a price, all of them will become exchangeable.

 

 

The argument in favour of this approach is coherent and plausible. Business currently treats the natural world as if it is worth nothing. Pricing nature and incorporating that price into the cost of goods and services creates an economic incentive for its protection. It certainly appeals to both business and the self-hating state. The Ecosystem Markets Task Force speaks of "substantial potential growth in nature-related markets – in the order of billions of pounds globally".

 

Commodification, economic growth, financial abstractions, corporate power: aren't these the processes driving the world's environmental crisis? Now we are told that to save the biosphere we need more of them.

 

Payments for ecosystem services look to me like the prelude to the greatest privatisation since Rousseau's encloser first made an exclusive claim to the land.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Vapor

(#286487)
M Scott Eiland's picture

US 4 x 100 meter women's relay team annihilates record set in 1985 by East Germany by over half a second.

If you listen carefully, you can hear Erich Honecker's outraged screams from Hell at the indignity.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Awesome race, loved the

(#286521)

Awesome race, loved the excitement they showed.  Pointing at the "WR" sign BEFORE crossing the finish line...

"Slime Vat #5, Mr. Axelrod"

(#286482)
M Scott Eiland's picture

NBC just interrupted Olympic coverage to say that Paul Ryan will be Romney's running mate.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Why are You So Mad at David Axelrod? He's telling the Truth...

(#286488)

...arguably.

 

This is better than Reid under your rules, no?

 

There's something here I'm not getting....you should be happy a Democrat is telling the truth.

 

What's the problem, or how do you bridge this disconnect in your positions?

 

BTW, Reid seemingly forced Romney's hand in this regard.

 

Best Wishes, Traveller

Axelrod Is A Serial Liar. . .

(#286489)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .but at least he could reasonably argue that it is part of his job description (much like Debbie the D****it).

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

*smiles*

(#286478)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Well played, Ms. Meyer. When this story circulates more widely, you might end up with more fans than the Padres have.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Dear Dalai Lama, why not just stick to science, then?

(#286476)
mmghosh's picture

I have often said that if science proves facts that conflict with Buddhist understanding, Buddhism must change accordingly.

freedom is a fundamental value that does not need to be justified in terms of some other value like efficiency

more powerful tools

(#286484)

Dear Dalai Lama, why not just stick to science, then?

Because, dear Manish, Buddhist practice gives one a chance understand and experience the nature of time and consciousness. Science doesn't. Why limit oneself to what is observable in science, when we have more powerful tools at hand?

You will kill 10 of our men, and we will kill 1 of yours, and in the end it will be you who tire of it. - Ho Chi Minh

"Suffering is an illusion."

(#286477)

"Attachment is illusion."

 

Hm, I'm not exactly sure what science would say about that stuff.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

Ask catchy and Jordan.

(#286481)
mmghosh's picture

catchy - "Suffering is what the 1% inflict upon the 99% through mendacity and theft".

 

Jordan - "Attachment is advertising".

 

Strictly scientific.

freedom is a fundamental value that does not need to be justified in terms of some other value like efficiency

Seeing this a lot in KY

(#286467)

 

Anyone else seen it?

 

Heres the about page of their website: http://conservativesnow.com/what-are-we-doing

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

Is it true that his records

(#286485)

Is it true that his records from school are not available to the public? Is that typical? I'm curious what he studied, and who he studied with, what he wrote etc.

I imagine an SS number has various information coded into it, such as the state where it was issued. An Ontario driver's license will reveal the bearer's date of birth.

You will kill 10 of our men, and we will kill 1 of yours, and in the end it will be you who tire of it. - Ho Chi Minh

What's "a Connecticut Social Security number?"

(#286473)

Does Connecticut run its own SS program?

 

Academic records at Columbia? Sealed! Records at Harvard? Sealed! (They let just about anybody into those schools; WHO IS BARACK OBAMA??)

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

Pace spart, talking about.....

(#286958)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

....a Connecticut SSN actually does make (some) sense.  Part of the SSN has always been assigned on a geographical basis.  The reason I add the caveat "some" is that the linkage isn't a tight one.  It used to be based on the office one had applied for a number at, and then circa the mid-70s switched to being based on the applicants mailing address ZIP.  So there is a rational basis to talk about a "Connecticut" SSN, but it's the sort of thing that has worked well as a flag for potential fraud on credit applications but would mean nothing in a court of law. 

 

(In one way the linkage has grown tighter over time, since the age at issuance has dropped over the years, meaning that somebody getting one today probably hasn't moved very far from their place of birth, whereas in 1960 or 1980 you might have gotten it years after your DoB, and thus after all kinds of family moves.)

Snopes points out that Honolulu's ZIP code, 06814

(#286963)

is almost identical to that for Danbury, Connecticut's 96814. Clerical error? 

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

Possible, as far as I know.

(#287328)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

I'm not sure when Obama got his.  If it's post-72, it seems very possible that a clerk at the central location could have transposed the digits and selected from the wrong set.  Prior to that it would have been done locally, so I'd have more difficulty seeing it.

Doesn't need to make sense Jordan

(#286474)

just needs to sound conspiratorial enough to convince the crazy uncle type. An audio/visual version of the email chain letter/fundraising mail list.

 

Probably more of a fundraising effort than straight electioneering.

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

That's bizarre

(#286468)
stinerman's picture

Why are they running ads in Kentucky?  Is the station close enough to the Ohio border that they're targeting them?

 

I should probably watch the ad.  Heh.  I love that guy's voice.  He reminds me of the motormouth guy from the MicroMachines commercials.

The Constitution does not vest in Congress the authority to protect society from every bad act that might befall it. -- Clarence Thomas

A competitor of The Onion?

(#286475)
brutusettu's picture

Ohio river

(#286472)

not the state. Probably getting colateral damage from their barrage on IN.

 

The tennor of the add suggests they are trying to gin up the email chain loving base, not pursuade independents.

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

In The Spirit Of Dante. . .

(#286459)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .here's hoping that R. William Jones and the others guilty of treason against the integrity of their sport forty years ago have very, very cold eyeballs right now.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

OK--We Need A MAN LAW Ruling Here

(#286395)
M Scott Eiland's picture

BMX--sport, or trashsport?

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

My main guideline

(#286397)
HankP's picture

No judging on points. As long as it's a race against time or other contestants, that's a point in its favor. I'd definitely call it a sport, even though I'd like to see a longer track.

 

Hell, it requires more skill and athleticism than badminton.

I blame it all on the Internet

Just After I Posted That Comment. . .

(#286399)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .there was a three biker crash at about 35 MPH that had bodies tumbling everywhere. While a trampoline can be life-threatening as well--as Joba Chamberlain's misfortune proved--that has to give it some cred. I'm pretty sure few if any young ladies have snuffed it in the course of rhythmic gymnastics.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

I do not think rhythmic gymnastics is even close to a sport

(#286435)

I saw it for the first time this week and it didn't even seem a little bit like one.

Catchy, could you do me a favor when you get a second

(#286440)

and post a video of you doing some of the totally non-sporty moves in this video? It isn't important which element you take on, but I think the flying splits with a bowling ball might be cool to see, or if you could bend backwards while pulling a hula hoop over your head & feet simultaneously, that might be neat. Or if you don't feel like memorizing so much choreography, maybe you could just lie on your stomach and toss a volleyball over your head using just your glutes.

 

I promise to "Like" any such video you put on Youtube. I totally won't be a Russian judge about it. :)

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

The Same Could Be Said Of Poses From The Kama Sutra

(#286446)
M Scott Eiland's picture

But I doubt we'll be seeing The Hedgehog on the top of an Olympic medal stand any time soon.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

I believe that's a different Olympics.... -nt-

(#286453)

.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

Entertaining circuses and ballerina dancing

(#286441)

aren't easy either, but they're also not sport.

Trapeze artists aren't athletes?

(#286444)

.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

And Javelin Throwing Is?

(#286442)

It's hunting boar.

 

Or killing Persians.

Sure

(#286447)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Even javelin *catching* could be, though there probably wouldn't be any repeat gold medalists. ]:-)

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Aside from the great Synchronized Swimming Disaster of '02

(#286412)

there's little danger in a bunch of gaily dressed people imitating a kaleidoscope in a pool...at least once the sport had banned the Kablowski Method and stopped recruiting pearl divers. What an awful tragedy that was. Anyhoo...

 

I think you guys are off the mark. Danger isn't the proper metric for a "real" sport. And I'm sorry, but point scoring (by judges) can't be a disqualification either...anybody that can do backflips on a 4" beam of wood gets to call themselves an athlete, however ridiculous the scoring method, and however eye-twitchingly annoying the commentators might be. 

 

Badminton is no more a sport than lawn darts. Sure, at the Olympic level athletes might *compete* in badminton, but they didn't get to be athletes by *playing* badminton. Ping Pong, on the other hand, well you've seen the top players. That's a sport, albeit one with tiny balls.

 

Which suggests a possible guideline. A sport is a sport if... you can become an athlete by playing that sport. In other words the sport itself requires and promotes a unique set of skills and physical/neural development. You can't become an athlete by playing badminton, or curling, croquet, etc. I'm on the line about equestrian events, especially dressage...the horses should medal but I dunno about the riders. Shooting isn't really a sport, though it is a skill (as is riding), hm.

 

Well it's a start.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

I said nothing of danger

(#286414)
HankP's picture

As far as judges awarding points, perhaps you're too young to remember what a joke that was during the cold war. But even without that, the standards are arbitrary and subject to fashion.

I blame it all on the Internet

Totally agree about judges.

(#286419)

Imagine how great the Olympics would be without judges, and with better commentators.

 

What I meant was you can't disqualify a sport just because it happens to have judge-awarded points. Gymnastics is a sport because the things gymnasts do every day would put most of us in the hospital.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

I imagine

(#286432)

..playing badminton would put most of yoose in hospital too:)

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

You're assuming....

(#286961)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

....most of them aren't posting from the hospital.  I have my doubts....

Dear Carl

(#286394)
M Scott Eiland's picture

I have the utmost respect for your accomplishments, and--as long as you promise *never* to sing the National Anthem again--your legacy is safe. But you really need to stop disrespecting the greatest sprinter to ever walk the planet, particularly since we all know you were an eyelash away from having your own legacy tainted by drugs. You sound like a bitter little punk--show some dignity.

As for Mr. Bolt himself. . .he duplicated what was probably the greatest sports feat I had seen in my life up to that point--Michael Johnson's 19.32 200 meters in the 1996 Olympics--while coasting across the finish line with little apparent exertion. He is now the only man to win the Olympic 200 meters twice, and (as follows logically) the only man to win the 100/200 Olympic double twice, with the 4 by 100 relay beckoning to make him the only man to complete that triple medal back to back. He doesn't need to do it three Olympics in a row to cement his legacy. . .but I'll be damned if I'll bet against him doing it. Heck, he could start training in the long jump and add *that* for Rio, and it wouldn't surprise me. Barring what would now be a heartbreaking revelation of doping on his part, Usain Bolt is at the top of the heap of the greatest track and field athletes of all time--the only debate left is the inherently subjective one comparing different sports.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

He's learning from Reid

(#286469)
stinerman's picture

Reid has no credible basis for saying Romney paid no taxes in the past 10 years.  Lewis has the exact same basis...actually a bit of a lesser one.  He's going on conjecture.  Reid ostensibly talked to a guy.  Without knowing who the source is, we can't judge the veracity of his claims.

 

I loved this tidbit:

"Countries like Jamaica do not have a random program, so they can go months without being tested. I'm not saying anyone is on anything, but everyone needs to be on a level playing field."

That sounds a lot like "I'm not racist, but..." and then some really racist crap comes out of someone's mouth.

The Constitution does not vest in Congress the authority to protect society from every bad act that might befall it. -- Clarence Thomas

Without knowing who the source is...

(#286470)

Without seeing the returns, we can't judge Mitt's veracity either.

 

Well played Harry.

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

Rudisha vs Bolt matchup at 400m

(#286410)

Would be a great show. The mens 800m yesterday has to be one of the greatest races every run. Rudisha not only set a new world record but the time of the last place finisher in the finals would have been good enough to win gold at any of the last three Olympics.

Beach volleyball

(#286378)
Bird Dog's picture

How can you not appreciate the players and the sport. It may be sexist, but I wish basketball, and soccer players wore those kinds of uniforms. I'm convinced there would be more ticket sales if they did.

 

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Beach Volleyball is not a sport

(#286463)
stinerman's picture

It is soft-core porn for our anti-sex culture.

 

I'm about the least prude person in the world, but Christ Almighty.  Beach Volleyball is first and foremost about showing off your body and secondly about being a good athlete.

The Constitution does not vest in Congress the authority to protect society from every bad act that might befall it. -- Clarence Thomas

Not Cool, Dude

(#286400)
M Scott Eiland's picture

The last thing I need is the vision of Shaq in a sports bra. I'm pretty sure that would horrify even the thoroughly and happily gay males out there.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

To clarify,

(#286405)
Bird Dog's picture

girl basketball and soccer players, who are just as fit as the beach volleyballers. No way do I want to see some guy in tight lycra bikini bottoms. Eww.

 

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

That would be like lingerie football

(#286384)
brutusettu's picture

They are not 2 great things that go great together.  

Thank God For Title IX...as a Man, I Doubted it When Enacted...

(#286374)

 

 

...I am happy to have been proven wrong. Wow for US woman athletes!

 

I hope you can view this summary of US women in the Olympics...they have been...better and often classier than the men.

 

http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/2012/team-usa-women-winning-big-in-lond...

 

This is youtube but w/o a youtube link or embed.

 

Traveller

A lot of men's sports have been gutted due to Title IX

(#286379)
brutusettu's picture

Women don't generally play football or for basketball teams that turn a profit.

The quota system enacted after a poorly worded law generally has led to men's sports being cut and women's sports safer, based purely on the sex of the athletes involved.

 

 

 

Yep

(#286387)
M Scott Eiland's picture

I like women's sports (though I dislike men's and women's trashsports with equal intensity, and wish they would stop cluttering the Olympics), and I think funding should be there to allow them to participate in them to the extent of their genuine interest. But even after forty years of Title IX, the simple fact remains that men as a group have more interest in sports than women--though the gap has certainly narrowed considerably--and more people are interested in watching men's sports than women's sports. A law that fails to acknowledge this, and which squeezes men's sports in which there is a genuine interest out of existence in order to enforce a false equality is not a just law.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Title IX Passed in 1972 And We're Still Arguing Over it?

(#286401)

One study, completed in 2006, pointed to a large increase in the number of women participating in athletics at both the high school and college level. The number of women in high school sports had increased by a factor of nine, while the number of women in college sports had increased by more than 450%.[32] A 2008 study of intercollegiate athletics showed that women's collegiate sports has grown to 9,101 teams, or 8.65 per school. The five most frequently offered college sports for women are, in order: (1) Basketball, 98.8% of schools have a team, (2) Volleyball, 95.7%, (3) Soccer, 92.0%, (4) Cross Country, 90.8%, and (5) Softball, 89.2%.[33]

At the same time, many contend that the current interpretation of Title IX by the OCR has resulted in the dismantling of men's programs, despite strong participation in those sports.[34] For example, though interest in the sport of wrestling has consistently increased at the high school level since 1990, [35] scores of colleges have dropped their wrestling programs during that same period.[36][37] The OCR's three-prong test for compliance with Title IX often is cited as the reason for these cuts.[37][38] Wrestling historically was the most frequently dropped sport,[38] but other men's sports later overtook the lead, such that according to the NCAA, the most-dropped men's sports between 1987 and 2002 were as follows: Cross country (183), indoor track (180), golf (178), tennis (171), rowing (132), outdoor track (126), swimming (125) and wrestling (121).[36]

 

There has been an impact on some men's sports....but it is a net plus for the society and women in particular. Also, damn...but don't these women look fine and fit?

 

Better than me...lol...I need a title IX....I have also come to understand better that women are people too.

 

Traveller

 

Not arguing the female side because...

(#286402)
Bird Dog's picture

...I'm glad they're in, but since I have a son currently in college wrestling, I can tell you that this wonderful sport took a calamitous hit. There are only around 85 Division I schools that carry wrestling. An incredible number of really good high school wrestlers have had no chance at taking their craft to the next level. Seems like some compromise could've been worked out.

 

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY!!!

(#286449)

Set up a private, for profit, wrestling studio to take advantage of the lack of state sponsored school programmes.

I am the only one with entrepreneurial spirit to see the opening? Compromise, my ass! Go for the green!

Of course the big issue for this kind of business is "location, location, location" - where to operate. My advice, look for a thriving ballet studio, and locate as close as possible. Strangely, ballet has never ever been a part of high school or elementary school education, so the managers will have a wealth of knowledge and experience to be exploited.

You will kill 10 of our men, and we will kill 1 of yours, and in the end it will be you who tire of it. - Ho Chi Minh

I wrestled Division 1 when I was in college

(#286409)

but the school no longer has a program. It was cut because of Title 9. Some of the wrestling alumni were willing to provide funding to keep the sport alive but were turned down since the main thing from the schools point of view was whittling down the number of male athletes in order to balance out the football team.

I Do Not Know Title IX Enough to Discuss it Throughly, But...

(#286411)

 

...it stuck me, Floater, even before your post...that education has changed so much since either of us was there that maybe it is difficult to get a true grasp on what is going on...and this may mean you and BD also.

 

For example, you had a wrestling program when Title IX was in effect, yes? Passed in 1972, mostly implemented in 1979...and so if there was a program under Title IX, but suddenly over the past 10 years schools are dropping wrestling there may be other economic factors driving these changes.

 

I'm not saying that Title IX is not an influence in these decisions, (ie you can't accept private money for a program that excludes women), but there are larger forces working their way through these schools than just suddenly Title IX that are causing the dropping of these programs.

 

Football is more important?

 

Hey, maybe that is a rational school decision.

 

Don't know...but I suggest the above also.

 

Traveller

 

If wrestling is taking a hit in the last 10 years

(#286943)

it's probably because men now have many other forums in which they can express their homosexuality legitimately.

Yoicks

(#287395)
Bird Dog's picture

Thank you demonstrating this breadth of ignorance and bigotry and shallowness toward a sport. And what Floater said.

 

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Wow how original

(#286948)

You probably think you're the first person to ever make that joke.

I wasn't joking.

(#286949)

/nt

Then it was a remarkably stupid

(#286950)

and inane comment.

Disagree.

(#286953)

Everyone (or almost everyone) has some kind of homosexual tendency at some level. Young men with raging hormones in a hetero culture can use organized, culturally approved events like wrestling to, as Nyoos said "express" their homosexual tendencies.

 

This doesn't mean they're all gay, or that they are having gay sex. Most team sports include elements of this, but in wrestling it is just more overt. this doesn't make wrestlers bad, or weird or deviant. I don't know why that would be a controversial thing to say.

 

Edit- to be clear, I'm not claiming this is the biggest part of wrestling, or the most important part, or a part that needs to be brought up in every discussion of the sport. But it is an aspect of it.

And what exactly do you know about wrestling Pranky?

(#286955)

Even if you are a gay wrestler (and there have been some) nothing is further from your mind when you're in a match. Lactic acid levels in one's body reach higher levels during a wrestling match than in pretty much any other sport. You're in an all out fight. Yes a fight with rules but a fight nonetheless.

A pitcher isn't always on the mound.

(#286957)

Not every part of being a wrestler is being in the middle of a match. There's a culture built around men wrestling each other, over and over. 

 

 

And what are those other parts?

(#286965)

When I was competing in college I typically did a weight training and/or running and conditioning session in the morning. Are those homosexual in nature? Hell a lot of the time I did those workouts with female friends on the gymnastics and track teams who shared a facility with us. (I admit that could be distracting but it was most definitely not a homosexual distraction). The afternoon session was wrestling and even practice is so physically demanding that you're not thinking about anything else.

We're not saying you're homosexual floater.

(#286966)

not that there's anything wrong with it of course.

Absolutely nothing wrong with it

(#286969)

but you made a dumb comment about a subject where you admit you have little knowledge. I pointed that out as well as your comments lack of originality but for some reason you seem to want to double down on it though.

The internet would be a quiet place

(#286971)

if we all stuck to commenting on things we're familiar with. I just thought it odd you insisted on refuting a general point about a % of wrestlers with your own experiences. I mean, statistically there must be some wrestlers who are gay and no doubt many who are out about it now. Who do they go running with and find distracting?

Distracted while running perhaps

(#286974)

but while wrestling not so much even if they are gay. Think of it this way. Assuming you're a straight guy  would you find getting physically beat up by a pretty girl sexually arousing? I know that there are some people who may enjoy that but if that is the case with you please don't project it onto others.

How beat up are we talking?

(#286978)

Because, if I'm honest, in a controlled environment, in tight lycra, maybe a little?

and of course

(#286989)

There would always be the chance that I might dominate her and force her to submit. Perhaps a better question would be, who would I prefer to wrestle? A beautiful fit woman or an equally matched man?

Guys, are we seriously arguing over whether wrestling is gay?

(#286973)

I can't tell whether this is parody or not. Sort of hoping it is.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

Must I be 2 dimensional Jordan?

(#286977)

Can't I, like Sandra Bullock in Miss Congeniality, play both the clown and make a serious exploration of the socio-sexual nexii of our acheivement culture at the same time?

You know how I know you're gay?

(#286979)

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

Let me provide a little background here Jordan

(#286976)

Everyone who has wrestled competitively for any length of time has heard countless jokes and comments like the one that started this off. It's no big deal but I pointed out the lack of originality and it went from there. And it does appear as if Pranky and NJ actually beleive what they are saying but perhaps it's just a clever troll on their part.

clever troll fail on several levels

(#286991)
brutusettu's picture

Every person I've personally heard made similar claims in the past have either been do****-bags who enjoy trying to piss people off or been  obviously bi or gay, kind of a rorschach test I guess.

Piss people off is a little strong.

(#286995)

I was just tweaking a little. I thought the "homosexuals have more outlets in the last 10 years"bit was a little bit clever, not the "wrestlers are all gay because they touch each other"bit. Especially since I wasn't making that latter claim. I was merely allowing for the presence of some gay people in the wrestling world. I had no idea you completely loose all aspects of your sexuality as soon as you sign up to a wrestling class, but as Floater points out, I know next to nothing about wrestling.

 

Interesting though to me that you have had the claim from a lot of gay/bi people. I'm not sure if you're implying its part of a obsessive world view on their part that sees gay everywhere or not. If not it's doubly interesting.

If you're looking to tweak a little on that topic

(#287049)
brutusettu's picture

be aware that every person I've heard in person complain about wrestling being for the gays was;  a "race realist" type, warhawk or chickenhawk, xenophobic type, and far more likely to talk about "wh***** secretly wanting it because their skirt was too short" type, and the type that seems to fantasize about what they do with another guy at the exact same time remembering what their good pastor told them was in the good book.

 

 

I'm not complaining of course.

(#287081)

Anyway, it's become pretty clear to me that GRWs get a lot of flack in the US and are as a result hypersensitive to any comment about their sport. I'm sure the same is true in certain other sports like beach volleyball for example. I'm sure they're sick of people bringing sexuality into discussions of their sport too.

 

Here we celebrate our wrestlers. Not GR, but not so different.

 

Minus The "Clever" Part -nt-

(#286980)
M Scott Eiland's picture

.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

you're right

(#286986)

Let's get back to romneys tax returns or whether Reid is a douchebag or not. or maybe something on circumcision? I saw an article on the been there about how hundreds of teenagers in south Africa suffer gangrene and worse through circumcision rituals.

That One's Easy

(#286987)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Put me on record as being against using unsterilized stone knives without local anesthetic on teenage boys to perform a procedure that is painful for a teenaged patient under modern conditions. Infection is almost a given under those circumstances.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

No

(#286975)
M Scott Eiland's picture

They're arguing over whether it's cool to spew pseudo-intellectual BS about wrestling being gay and/or associated with rape fantasies. Marginally less distasteful than, say, an argument insisting that Dworkin/MacKinnon gender feminism should be taken seriously, but still pretty unpleasant.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

You claim I'm trolling.

(#286984)

I'm not. And is there some written down continuum of tastefulness I should be referencing when I post here? Human sexuality expresses itself in many ways in every culture on earth. It's a legit topic. Why is ours off limit to conversation?

Suit yourself.

(#286951)

I'm not the one dressed like a giant condom.

Well you'll have to pardon me

(#286954)

While I would never suggest that this applies to you personally since that would be a PRV people who wrestle constantly hear stupid comments from silly jacka$$'es who know nothing about the sport but think they're being clever by making homosexual comments. While I don't have anything against folks with that persuasion it has nothing to do with the sport. Perhaps you might consider learning something about it before posting something that dumb. There is a reason why amateur wrestlers are so successful in MMA for example and it has little to do with their uniforms or sexual preferences.

From the littlebit of MMA

(#286959)

I've been forced to watch at Hooters (since its the only eaterie open after 10pm where I visit for work) it seems to consist of a lot of rolling around on the ground which is where GR wrestlers seem to excel. 

 

Or so it seems to me, I really know very little about the sport beyond watching a few bouts. The skill, the determination and the power are all obvious. It is a hard and punishing sport for sure. You can see that right away even by looking at the pictures on the wiki:

 

 

 

 

But I'm not sure why your so upset with the homosexuality reference. We all seem to agree now that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality so I don't know what upsets you about the assertion. (The condom comment was gratuitous of course).

 

I've done a lot of "macho" sports and quite a few non macho ones. I change sports a lot since I'm curious, and if I'm honest, since I'm not very good at sports in general. Out of all the macho ones I've done the only one with prolonged body contact was rugby and it was also the only one where, after puberty, there was a change on the field and in the changing rooms. I'd say about 10% of the boys there were there to act out their homosexual rape fantasies whether they realised it or not. I never saw anything like the changing room behaviour I saw in Rugby in the boxing club I joined or any of the karate dojos I got beaten up in twice a week.

The homosexuality references get tiresome

(#286967)

since as I said earlier there is no shortage of them being repeated over and over again by people who don't know anything about the sport.

No smoke without fire

(#286968)

I guess.

Nyoos, comment not the commenter

(#286992)

Watch the lines please

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

Just to be clear

(#286993)

I'm saying that if people make a lot of comments connecting GR wrestling and homosexuality (smoke) then perhaps there is a link (fire). I've no interest in Floater's sexuality.

 

Honestly, I'm only 50% trolling this. I can't see why it's controversial that a homosexual might find some sexual aspect to participating in a sport like GRW. As pointed out earlier if it was me and a bunch of hot fit college girls in spandex on the mat I would find something sexual about that. I think the sexual dimension to human relationships is pretty much present to one degree or another 100% of the time when we interact with suitable partners.

Men

(#286981)

used to wrestle naked and have sex with boys to up their masculinity. Doesn't mean they were gay. Again, it's just a part of human culture. Us puritans wear spandex and eschew the olive oil.

 

And yeah, a woman with a great physically fit body throwing me down in a wrestling environment would be a little arousing. Watching it happen to others over and over would be a little arousing also, probably even more so. Hell, there's people who have all kinds of BSDM fantasies, why wouldn't wrestling play into that? It's just part of human nature, as is BSDM culture. There's all kinds of fetishes out there, as a simple google search can affirm.

"Whether They Realized It Or Not"

(#286960)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Oh, joy--a false consciousness argument. *Just* what we've been needing around here.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

The Aswan dam could generate up to

(#286964)

2.1 GW at full flow. Which is to say, DeNile is a powerful force.

Q: How do you separate the men from the boys at Penn St.?

(#286952)
HankP's picture

A: With a crowbar

I blame it all on the Internet

I've been hearing that....

(#286962)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

....one with Greece in place of Penn since I was 10.

Me too

(#286970)
HankP's picture

it's a classic.

I blame it all on the Internet

LOL...That is Terrible...Laugh & Gauf...nt

(#286944)

Traveller

I Included the Wrestling Because of Your Involvement...

(#286403)

 

...yes, a compromise should have been able to be worked out.

 

Today's (?) poisonous atmosphere makes this difficult...give a little, there is an assumption that the other side will take a lot...

 

But, yes, compromise should have been available.

 

Traaveller

Another reason why Romney won't win

(#286372)
Bird Dog's picture

Younger Republicans are not on board with the social conservative wing (link), few as they are. Sigh.

 

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

“A lot of the College

(#286377)

“A lot of the College Republicans I know share the same liberal-to-moderate social views,” she added. “And I think that’s changing the face of the party.”

Not from the cheap seats.  I wish it was true, though.  Those issues are distractions and take up valuable space in American political discourse.

United States 2, Japan 1, Brandi Chastain 0

(#286366)
M Scott Eiland's picture

You can toddle off in the corner with Greg Ryan and be irrelevant now, Brandi.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Torture at Gitmo

(#286320)
Bird Dog's picture

The torture of watching Fresh Prince, that is. Actually, the detainees like the sitcom.

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

How do you track Will Smith in the snow?

(#286342)

You follow the fresh prints

That's pretty good

(#286352)

That's pretty good

The word's out on the next anti-Romney ad

(#286299)
Bird Dog's picture

Closure.

CHICAGO—With campaign rhetoric becoming increasingly heated and both presidential nominees releasing more attack ads, a new 30-second spot from the Obama campaign this week accuses his opponent Mitt Romney of committing the 1996 murder of 6-year-old beauty pageant queen JonBenét Ramsey.

 

Titled “He Did It,” the advertisement asks if anyone can truly remember where Romney was the night of the child’s murder, and whether the U.S. populace wants a president capable of strangling a little girl and dumping her body in her parents’ basement.

President Obama appears at the end of the advertisement to approve the message.

 

“I think this is a fair ad, and I think Mitt Romney owes an explanation to the American people as to why he murdered JonBenét Ramsey,” said Obama campaign manager Jim Messina, who called the commercial’s black-and-white reenactment of Mitt Romney carrying a kicking and screaming child to her death “accurate.” “Ultimately, voters need to know who they’re getting with Mitt Romney: a job- and child-killing businessman who is so deceitful he won’t release his tax returns or admit to a senseless murder that shook the nation to its core.”

 

Scheduled to run in multiple swing states, with significant airtime in Ramsey’s home state of Colorado, the ad criticizes Romney not just for killing the prepubescent girl, but for going to extreme lengths to cover it up. It also states that Mitt Romney paid former school teacher John Mark Karr to falsely come forward as the murderer, and accuses the former Massachusetts governor of being a sex offender.

 

Over a silhouette of Romney walking away from the Ramsey mansion—blood dripping from his hands—the commercial’s narrator asks, “If Mitt Romney kept the murder of JonBenét a secret from the American people, what else is he hiding?”

 

Moreover, at the end of the spot a smiling Romney is seen at a campaign event saying, “I killed her, and I had a good time.” Sources from the Romney campaign were quick to announce that the audio and video had been cobbled together from different statements he made during that particular rally.

 

“Personally, if I killed JonBenét Ramsey, I would have come clean and told the American people that on day one,” Obama’s communication director David Axelrod said on Sunday’s installment of Meet The Press. “But I think that’s a key difference between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney. Barack Obama never murdered a child, and Mitt Romney did.”

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Just To Clarify. . .

(#286305)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .that's an Onion piece. Admittedly, it's a bit hard to tell these days--and it's more plausible than anything that has come out of Baron Harry or Nancy "Suffragist Ghosts Were Crawling Up My Skirt" Pelosi's mouths for a long time.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Looks like its time for Douchebag Harry to give another...

(#286298)
Bird Dog's picture

..."old people love junk mail" speech. The USPS lost $5.2 billion last quarter (link). The GAO proposal to significantly restructure the USPS has been out there for a while, much of which has to do with cutting costs. The Senate passed a funding bill with some cost-cutting measures, but the House wants more cuts quicker.

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

You mean Republicans forced the USPS to lose 5.2 billion

(#286323)

by requiring them to prepay retirement benefits 75 years into the future. But of course you knew that right?

Talk about conservative accounting (no pun intended)

(#286381)
brutusettu's picture

75 years of future expenses must be funded up to 65 years in advance?  Is that right?

Either postal rate payers will pay or...

(#286325)
Bird Dog's picture

...taxpayers will. If the provision is removed, then the GOP will be accused of taking away retired postal workers' health benefits or adding to the deficit. In either case, without or with the pre-funding, they're heading off a financial cliff.

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

No

(#286326)
HankP's picture

if they funded the retirement plans at actuarially approved rates (better than what the private sector does) they'd break even or turn a small profit. It's the forced funding of a 75 year figure in a limited amount of time that caused the crisis - and it was the Republican's doing.

I blame it all on the Internet

Their retirement plan is overfunded

(#286331)
Bird Dog's picture

This relates strictly to retiree health benefits. We'll see how this turns out.

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

The Junk Mail Reference Was Bad, Though Possibly True...Yet

(#286306)

...is an important component of American life.

 

For people living in rural climes, for people without internet connections or maybe skills, it is their only way to pay and receive bills and stay engaged in the world.

 

Just because you have a dozen options to pay your electric bill doesn't mean that this is true for vast swaths of fly over country.

 

If you want to take on the corporate interests that drive the insanity of junk mail, then I applaud you, to again reach out to cut essential services to people less fortunate than yourself...not so much.

 

There are easy fixes here to be had for the USPS...but the intellectual Thugs in the Republican Party leadership would rather again pick on the poor guy.

Stupid, shortsighted

(#286318)

quest for a Pyrrhic victory.

 

The post office employs hundreds of thousands of people. The direct mail advertising industry is STILL an extremely good way for corporations to sell stuff to people. There are huge businesses involved with getting data about mail recipients, and advertising agencies that employ thousands of people making the stuff, not to mention the gigantic printing and transport industry that benefits. Money goes around and around in a system like this. Hell of a lot better for the USA than dumping it in the Caymans or playing the stock market roulette.

 

What makes junk mail so insane? You have to throw it away, and once in a while see something in a paper catalog you might buy? It's a stupid reflex reaction that many people feel they need to have, but never have thought beyond any of this. Why not get rid of all billboards? It's the same stupid argument. Billboards are seen by people in cars using government-funded roads, etc.

 

Privatizing the post office is a bone-stupid idea for many reasons. It's become a dumb-ass republican & libertarian (i.e. conservatives with social anxieties) talking point and I have no doubt that they'll manage to pull it off in my lifetime. Race to the bottom is the guiding principle of the right wing these days. The vast majority of them will be hurt by what they want to enact but are too stupid to see it. Rubes.

 

 

Yup

(#286321)
HankP's picture

the rural folk are quickly making themselves also-rans in the race for economic development. Between christian know-nothing schools and isolating themselves through stupid moves like this they're quickly turning themselves into ignorant peasants.

I blame it all on the Internet

It's Clear the Postal Privatisers

(#286309)

haven't given it much thought, for, because of the reasons you note, private service would have to be universal.

 

There'd also have to be some sort of must carry provision on the other side (as with your Internet provider), otherwise shippers would soon find themselves caught by the short ones.

 

And if people think junkmail is bad now*, just imagine what a privatised postal system would do to wring every cent out of the system's highest margin offering.

 

If folks want to make the Postal Service a money maker, let it leverage its real estate holdings and allow it to offer super-cheap WiFi (that kind of communications infrastructure is pretty close to its constitutional mandate) or basic banking services (as used to be the case).

 

Fat chance, of course. But a guy can dream.

 

----------------

*Don't understand the junkmail hate; it either goes straight to the recycle bin or lingers a a day or so on the coffee table and informs me of products and services -- many of them local -- that might be worthwhile.

Why should the post office make a profit

(#286300)

anymore than the military, schools, or prisons?

 

COnservatism's gone so far overboard in this country.

 

At this point, it needs to be beaten back, not compromised with. Instead we have Obama and his ilk.

I'd be satisfied with them breaking even

(#286310)
Bird Dog's picture

As to why it's an independent agency instead of a subsidized federal department, blame the postal strike of 1970.

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

I can see reasons for

(#286304)

subsidizing individual correspondence,  e.g.  classical non-bulk first class mail.   Not necessarily convincing reasons, but at least arguable.  If you are going to do it,  this type of mail ought to be separately accounted and the subsidy made explicit in the federal budget.

 

I can't see any reason to subsidize mass advertisement campaigns and solicitations,  rural or not rural,  profit or nonprofit.  These things need to be charged full cost plus a margin,  if the USPS handles them at all.

The Junkmail

(#286311)

subsidizes the rest of the system.

 

Then why the deficit?

(#286317)

That's why I want the two systems separated.  If they are making an actual profit off the junk mail, but the "real" mail is so expensive to deliver that even with the junk mail profit they're still $5.3B short,  that's one thing.  If the situation is that junk mail loses only a little per piece, while the first class loses a lot per piece, that's another.

 

It's hard to measure when the same sorters and carriers are handling both types. 

Junkmail is Cheaper to Handle

(#286322)

because it's standardized and the advertisers do a lot of the sorting before dropping it with the USPS. It's also a lot cheaper to send (I misspoke elsewhere; apparently it takes two or three (depending on who you ask) pieces of junkmail to generate the same revenue as one piece of first class mail.). It's kinda like the fashion designer's little back dress -- it keeps the lights on.

 

The largest chunk of the shortfall is due to Congress' mandate in 2006 that the USPS pre-fund 75 years worth of pension liabilities in just ten years' time. That works out to $5B or so every year.

 

The USPS knows it needs to become more efficient, but it cannot do so without action from Congress. The Senate has acted, the House hasn't.

You don't even need to go that far

(#286303)
stinerman's picture

The USPS wants to cut Saturday delivery and raise the price of stamps, but they are not able to absent the consent of Congress.  They actually want to be more competitive and not have to come to Congress for money, but Congress simply won't let them try and be profitable.

The Constitution does not vest in Congress the authority to protect society from every bad act that might befall it. -- Clarence Thomas

200 meters on a broken leg

(#286295)

 

 

Manteo Mitchell is one tough dude. Kept the US 4x400 team alive.

 

http://www.chron.com/sports/article/US-runner-finishes-Olympic-relay-lap...

Not to lessen their

(#286307)

Not to lessen their accomplishments but the fibula, which both Youngblood and Mitchell broke, doesn't bear weight but serves as a anchor for leg muscles and supports the ankle mortise.  They routinely remove it to use as bone graft for jaw reconstruction.  I'm sure it hurt like hell though.

Jack Youngblood

(#286302)

Broke his leg in an NFL playoff game, finished the game, played a week later in the NFC Championship, and again in the Super Bowl the week after that.

Tiger Woods And Bob Gibson Should Call Him

(#286297)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Although technically Bob Gibson didn't keep pitching after his leg was broken in that game in 1967--but he certainly tried to, and probably would have gone longer if his manager hadn't injected a dose of sanity into the situation by removing him.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

"I heard it and I felt it," Mitchell told the AP. "But I figured

(#286296)

it's what any person would have done in that situation."

 

Yeah, probably not so much. 

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

Our compliant media

(#286279)
Bird Dog's picture

Trading quote approval for access. And there's your reason for a blogosphere.

 

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Not a problem bloggers can solve.

(#286285)

If the entirety of a news story is sourced to politicians, and the people reporting on that story hope to report on other news stories sourced to the same politicians in the future, then you're going to see this stuff happening. Bloggers have no immunity. 

 

It's all about access: the sources for political stories have a vested interest in shaping how those stories come out. Spin is inherent in the process.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

This is a good argument for...

(#286301)
Bird Dog's picture

...using National Journal as a prioritized news source. They chose not to dance.

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Speaking of words meaning things,

(#286276)
Bird Dog's picture

the definition of Harry Reid.

In the spirit of Fair & Balanced, Mitt Romney defined.

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Winner of the "Headless Body Found in Topless Bar" contest

(#286275)
Bird Dog's picture

Classic title.

"I’m 57 years old. I should be able to get a vibrator!"

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

And in next week's exciting installment of Ghost Hunters,

(#286273)
Bird Dog's picture

Nancy Pelosi is visited by ghosts of feminist past.

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Religiosity and Atheism Worldwide

(#286265)

Really interesting polling results here.

Along with accelerating demographic changes

(#286268)

the decline in religiosity if accurate, is yet another reason to cause the GOP heartburn.

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

Not so fast

(#286270)
brutusettu's picture

It depends on what parts of the amalgamation is becoming less religious,  if there's a decline in GOP voters that care deeply about a county auditor's views on abortion if they're to vote for them, then it's a bit of a problem, but a later GOP aid will just shake the etch-a-sketch and find some new things.

Great Line From the BBC on Bolt vs. Blake 200Meters

(#286228)

I'm talking about Bolt-Blake part II of course, and there are less than 13 hours to go until Usain and Yohan go head to head again, this time over 200m at 20:55 BST. We will know the winner by, er, 20:55.20

 

Meaning we will know the winner in 20 seconds....I love Brit Humor. Dry.

 

Yet true.

 

Traveller

Showdown On The Half Lap

(#286224)
M Scott Eiland's picture

No man has ever repeated as the Olympic 200 meter champion--but Usain Bolt certainly seems to be ready to give it a try, as he won his semifinal heat looking as if he was jogging. His countryman Yohan Blake will be the biggest threat to that goal, as he won his own semifinal while only seeming to try a little harder than Bolt, allowing two other runners to finish mere hundredths of a second behind him. The two Jamaicans won't be coasting during the final tomorrow--the 200 meter record that was lowered to a mind-boggling 19.19 seconds by Bolt in the 2009 World Championships may fall yet again, and Bolt's Olympic record of 19.30 seconds certainly looks to be in serious jeopardy. Wallace Spearmon of the United States--who looked good in finishing just behind Blake in his semifinal--is likely to be fighting for bronze at best, barring injury (a misfortune that already cost Asafa Powell his chance to medal in the 100 meters and prematurely ended his season).

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

The European Olympics.

(#286215)
mmghosh's picture

What has struck me is the performance of the original EU (at the time of the Euro formation in 2000) - if they had participated as a team, they would have blown away the rest - and the performance of the joint Koreas.

 

http://www.london2012.com/medals/medal-count/

 

Of course increasing the number of events has helped.  But everyone should have been helped with that increase in essentially 1st world events - beach volleyball (an Olympic sport? cough cough), tennis, canoeing, kayaking, sailing etc.  There has to be a case made for the incredible amount of money now invested in sport in Europe.

 

Also, this.

Sure, it's not utopia. Day to day we are in a recession and lots of what emerges is difficult, edgy and contested. It is rare to feel we are one nation under a groove. But we have seen ourselves for a while in our best light: glittery and happy, belonging to something bigger than all of us. Joy unconfined when the mirrorball throws back these myriad reflections. Here we are, all in it together, just for a while. The Olympics has felt and looked like political correctness gone mad. And guess what? We bloody love it.

freedom is a fundamental value that does not need to be justified in terms of some other value like efficiency

Nostalgia For Trailblazer Fans

(#286156)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Looks like the guy Portland Trailblazer ownership just gave a long term, big money contract to is a groin-punching thug who reminds one of the long departed days of the "Jailblazers." So much for the "sophisticated" French--and so much for overpaying for a guy who clearly wanted to be elsewhere.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Now that's what I call a strongly worded letter

(#286131)
Bird Dog's picture

Here. I'm not sure if she killed her career as a dean or improved it.

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Well, There is Someone Full of Herself!

(#286138)

 

...having written such silliness myself in my distant past history, the memory of what a fool I was causes me to cringe all these years later to see someone else doing this.

 

Fortunately, a wiser older person took me aside, put his arm around my shoulder and in a conspiratorial fashion whispered to me, "Wouldn't it be better if we tore up this letter you sent me?"

 

I will be eternally grateful to this person for saving me from myself.

 

Best Wishes, Traveller

Yeah

(#286146)

if the thirst for justice/vengeance is too much to let go,  the best strategy is to let the boss have it verbally at a meeting,  but keep the resignation letter down to a single sentence no one can hang anything on.

All faculty dream about writing letters like that

(#286136)

but usually discretion takes over before it gets put in the envelope.

 

Unfortunately deans have to have the approval of both the faculty and the administration.  The letter will make her a hero with the former but kill her with latter anyplace she tries to get hired.

 

 

Double standard

(#286130)
Bird Dog's picture

When Michelle Bachmann made stupid and unsupported remarks concerning the alleged infiltration of Muslim Brotherhood agents in our government, she was taken to task by multiple Republican elected officials including Speaker Boehner, Scott Brown and John McCain. Even her former campaign manager spoke out against her.

When Scumbag Harry made stupid and unsupported remarks concerning Romney's taxes, not a single elected Democrat stood up. Rather, Pelosi stood by and defended the sleazebag and WH flack Carney refused to criticize his remarks.

Link.

 

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Wow...

(#286255)

You really can't see the difference between brazen racism targeting a religious group and campaign jousting targeting a Presidential candidate. Okay.

"I don't want us to descend into a nation of bloggers." - Steve Jobs

Nope. Not the point

(#286258)
Bird Dog's picture

Carry on.

 

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Except there is plenty of

(#286207)

Except there is plenty of evidence to refute her assertion.  In Reid's case?  Not so much.  Keep digging though!  It is surely entertaining.

Really?

(#286226)
Bird Dog's picture

Reid's assertion is unsupported, as was Bachmann's. Sounds damn near equivalent to me.

 

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

I'm sure you do think they

(#286232)

I'm sure you do think they are equivalent.

Why wouldn't they be equivalent?

(#286242)
Bird Dog's picture

Exactly what evidence has been presented that shows that Romney hasn't paid taxes for ten years? There is none.

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

On one side

(#286227)
brutusettu's picture

Reid: Some dude that invested with Bain says the Romney paid no taxes

 

-----Dana Bash finds that the source is credible through a second source

 

On the other

 

 

Bachmann:  Some Muslim Haters are claiming teh Muslims have infiltrated the State Department and are trying to convert America to Islam or murder all Americans from within.

 

 

 

----Stormfront concurs.

 

sure landscape paintings don't suck because of Hitler liked 'em, and Bachmann, promoting questions posed by people that think all Muslims are out to kill or convert all Americans, doesn't have an automatic impact on the truth of the matter.  

 

But Muslims Haters are not credible sources, any possible random Bain investor with a chance of insider knowledge is inordinately more credible. 

 

 

 

*****Bachmann, supported by Muslim Haters

*****Reid, supported by Bain investor & Dana Bash

 

So,

(#286243)
Bird Dog's picture

Bash knows a guy who purports to know Reid's source? Could that "very close to Senator Reid" source be one of Reid's aides or political supporters, perhaps? This is laughably unconvincing. Bash is carrying Douchebag Reid's douchebaggy water. Good girl. Give her a biscuit.

 

 

 

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Even then

(#286271)
brutusettu's picture

We're still left with Mr Hygiene Reid saying he has a source vs Bachmann repeating claims of Muslim Haters . 

Reid didn't get where he is

(#286246)

by being stupid enough to do what you are accusing him of, essentially making up a source to embarrass Romney. The worst you can credibly accuse Reid of doing is employing hyperbole. Which isn't going to cut it, because all that independent voters hear is Romney & taxes.

 

Well played Harry Reid.

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

Bachmann's comments were bigoted and dangerous

(#286132)

Reid's? Not so much, even on the assumption that they are false.

 

It's good that many in the GOP leadership condemned Bachmann, but Eric Cantor in the party leadership stood up for her.

 

my interpretation is that the GOP intended to send the following signal: anti-Muslim Christian religious bigots get to have their home in the GOP and may be thrown a bone now and then, but should not expect to run things.  

Bachmann is a backbencher,

(#286149)
Bird Dog's picture

only recently given a spot on the Intelligence Committee. Also, the chairman of the committee criticized her statements, and Boehner may just boot her off (link).

Douchebag Reid is the most powerful Democrat in Congress.

 

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Given a spot on the Intelligence Committee

(#286163)

to the GOP House leaderships eternal shame.

 

Also, she ran for President and had a lot of support, attended all the debates.

 

Senator Reid herds cats, but has a prominent soapbox and has used it effectively, at least in this instance.

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

A lot of support?

(#286251)
Bird Dog's picture

She bailed after the Iowa caucus when she finished in last place in the state of her birth. I can't think of a credible poll that had her higher than single digits. The GOP checked her out and roundly rejected her, and her fellow Congressmen aren't far behind.

Reid may herd cats but, except for Obama, he's the most powerful elected Democratic cat-herder in the nation.

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

14 out of 23 debates

(#286256)

& a seat on the House Intelligence Committee, embarrassing.

 

An effectively neutered cat herder given the GOP's filibuster abuse. Except when he climbs on his soapbox as in this instance.

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

I get it

(#286267)
Bird Dog's picture

Talking up the influence of a backbencher and presidential loser, and talking down the most powerful elected Democrat in Congress. Carry on.

 

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Hint

(#286269)

Bachman is an ongoing embarrassment to the GOP. Most democrats are not embarrassed by Harry Reid, far from it.

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

Yep

(#286272)
Bird Dog's picture

And therein lies the double standard. Your guy makes a completely unsupported charge, no repercussion. Rather, praise and huzzahs. Our gal does a similar thing, repercussions. Douchebag Reid should be an embarrassment to your party if they care about credibility. That he's not speaks volumes.

 

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Oh there has been a double standard alright

(#286286)

and republicans have benefited mightily from it and from playing the refs. But Harry just called you on it and Harry Reid is the honey badger:

 

http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2012/08/03/harrys-game/

 

 

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

+1.

(#286135)

Accusing the administration of being infiltrated by a foreign power is a fairly heinous thing to do.

 

Accusing a millionaire of using legal tax dodges to avoid tax liability is...what exactly is wrong with that again?

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

Any San Francisco forvmites?

(#286072)
HankP's picture

Not guaranteed yet, but it looks like I'll be there October 18 - 21. Anyone up for a meetup?

I blame it all on the Internet

The Taste of Victory

(#286055)

IMG_2821CFFU

Traveller

Where is that Trav? nt

(#286071)
HankP's picture

.

I blame it all on the Internet

Luang Prabang, North Central Laos...I Cut the Picture Tonight

(#286073)

 

 

...for the Canon Image Challenge (which has fallen on hard times, but I still love the idea of the contest). The subject was to be Red...and so this is in several regards...lol

 

Truly, a place to take the whole family...a UN World Heritage Site...I was looking for the far mountain...and I think I found it.

 

Best Wishes, Traveller

 

I Might Add:

 

  • All that believed were together, and had all things in common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
    (Acts 2:44-45)

There was not a needy person among them, for as many as owned lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold. They laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need. There was a Levite, a native of Cyprus, Joseph, to whom the apostles gave the name Barnabas (which means “son of encouragement”). He sold a field that belonged to him, then brought the money, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
(Acts 4:34-37)

 

How could any Christian not be a Communist?

 

This is what the Lord has commanded: Gather of it, every man of you, as much as he can eat; you shall take an omer apiece, according to the number of persons who each of you has in his tent. And the people of Israel did so; they gathered some more, some less. But when they measured it with an omer, he that gathered much had nothing over, and he that gathered little had no lack; each gathered according to what he could eat
(Ex. 16:16-18)

 

How could any Christian not be a Marxist?

 

"Jesus told him, "If you want to be perfect, go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Mark 10:25

"In fact, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God!""

Matthew 19:24
 
 

 

Best Wishes, Traveller

 

What they actually say

(#286241)
Bird Dog's picture

Acts 2:44-45 talks about healthy church or spiritual communities, not government. Oddly enough, the church that does quite well at this in modern times is LDS.

Similarly, Acts 4:34-37. This differs from communism because (1) the sharing was voluntary, (2) it didn't involve all private property, only as much as was needed, (3) it was not a membership requirement to be a part of this church. What they portray is an example of a church family that helps fellow members in need, and it is an example of how members can serve and uphold each other. It's about selflessness in the service of Christ.

In Exodus, the manna that appeared every day demonstrated that God provided their daily needs, even in a wilderness to which His people were called, and they were given nothing more or nothing less than what was needed to get through to the next day. Earlier in the chapter, it was clear that the handling of the manna was to be a test of obedience.

The "if you want to be perfect line" isn't Mark 10:25. It's Matthew 19:21. The point of the scripture--and you really have to start at verse 16--is what it takes to be perfect in the eyes of God. The point is that salvation doesn't come by good deeds and keeping the commandments unaccompanied by Christ. The man that Jesus was talking to was exceptionally rich, so He hit the man at his weak point, that wealth was his god or idol. His wealth got in the way of giving his heart to God. Note that Jesus cited six of the Ten Commandments, but commandment that Jesus did not mention and the commandment that the man violated was the first one (in effect, thou shalt have no other gods before Me). The other point of the passage is that Christians should be willing to make significant sacrifices and to use their resources unselfishly. It's about stewardship of your property. How a person handles that property is a manifestation of his faith. In effect, following Christ completely means that we must choose to use our resources in ways that please him.

Which leads to Matthew 19:24, which is out of context without reading verse 23, the first sentence in the paragraph:

The Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

The point is that wealth makes it easy to be distracted from following Christ. And in that culture at that time, the disciples believed that the rich had an easier path to salvation, not harder, since the culture considered the rich to be blessed by God. The church leaders at that time were wealthy. Jesus completely turned that whole concept around, and they fairly were astounded by it. This was exemplified again and again when Jesus talked to prostitutes, fraudsters and people outside the tribe.

It's easy to take a superficial reading of scripture and try to fit the square peg of Christianity into the round hole of socialism or communism, but as the New Testament shows again and again, the focus is on peoples' hearts and the spiritual kingdom, not of any government of the earthly kind. Christ didn't come to set up a world government or Marxist paradise. He came to offer a path of spiritual salvation and eternal life. You can believe or not believe in Christ, but I'm pretty sure that yanking out bits of Scripture to support some form of communist agitprop isn't what the New Testament had in mind.

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Nope, the Church was never meant to be exclusive.

(#286262)

Reading the NT on wealth and charity as "members helping out other members of a volunteer club" is entirely missing the point of all of the other passages that talk about charity to those who are *not* members of the church. 

 

True, giving is supposed to be, in fact has to be, voluntary in order to thread the "eye of the needle," so compulsory state communism isn't going to help anyone get into the NT version of heaven (or indeed any other spiritual path that involves freeing oneself from social judgment & "vanities").

 

State communism *is* all about the First Commandment, however. Private property, mammon, is of course the greatest & most widely practiced form of "idolatry" known to man. In truth, we own nothing. Everything is given to us, either by God or by the abundance of nature. Claiming to own that which is freely given to all is a profound form of vanity -- but it's one that no organized Christian Church has ever, beginning with Acts, been able to bring itself entirely to disavow. This despite Jesus' multiple warnings against the coveting of worldly goods. 

 

In at least this one respect, state communism is more Christian than any established church. 

 

:)

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

Undermining the traditional authority of the family

(#286288)

Another area where these communist regimes out christed the churches is their taking to heart the following the words in Mathew:

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. A man's enemies will be the members of his own household."

Undermining the traditional authority of the family is not a big part of the church's mission these days. The communist totalitarians fared better in this department.

You will kill 10 of our men, and we will kill 1 of yours, and in the end it will be you who tire of it. - Ho Chi Minh

And the Communists were inspired by Christian radicals

(#286291)

of the Civil War period, particularly the diggers, the levellers, muggletonians, congregationalists, and other dissenting groups & sects.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

I never said it was meant to be exclusive

(#286266)
Bird Dog's picture

I can't think of NT scripture anywhere that calls for any such thing. The passage was about the preferred behavior of members within a church community. This does not preclude outreach or service outside the church family. Other chapters and stories in Acts, not to mention Paul's letters, speak well about inclusion and outreach beyond the Jewish tribe.

I also don't see where the Scripture precludes ownership of private property, but it says quite a bit about our relationship with same.

Since state communism, as practiced, forbade and oppressed followers of Christ, it does not follow that state communism has anything to do with the First Commandment. If anything, under communist rule, "God" is replaced with "Marx" or [name supreme communist leader here]. The scriptures also have quite a bit to say about free will, that we are free to choose to follow or not follow. As practiced, state communism doesn't think much of free will, freedom or unalienable God-given rights.

 

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Thanks Bird Dog & Jordan & Mickey, I Will Think on This....

(#286282)

 

...especially Bird Dog's response because it is counter to mine....I need to think harder on his writing.

 

Thanks again,

 

Best Wishes, Traveller

There are literally hundreds of examples of followers of Christ

(#286281)

forbidding and repressing other followers of Christ. I'd say it's almost more the rule than the exception, in point of fact. Actually come to think of it, a willingness to oppress other followers of Christ has historically been damn near a requirement for membership in a number of denominations.

 

If my thesis is correct that wealth & private property are among the greatest "idols" of human history (and Jesus seems to agree), then state communism has been the only sustained & large scale attempt to wean the human animal from his greatest & most cherished illusion.

 

Not that it was successful in that or in most of its other attempts to impose cultural change by force.

 

Don't let our resident evangelicals hear you say that the scriptures endorse "free will."

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

To your first sentence,

(#286283)
Bird Dog's picture

yes, but not in Scripture. For a couple of thousand years, Christians have shown themselves to be selfish and flawed, and have fallen well short of the standards Jesus set forth. Thank God for grace.

The major point about state communism and Christianity is that the latter is voluntary when it comes to private property, the former not. The distinction is not trivial.

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Voluntary when it comes to private property.

(#286287)

Wasn't always so, and it still isn't inherently so, although I think it is beyond obvious that Jesus would have wished it so.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

Re communism and Christianity

(#286284)

Not very on-topic, but one interesting fact in the polling data I linked above is that Russia only has 6% who identify as atheists despite living under Communist rule for 3/4ths of a century.

 

In comparison, the US has 5% who identify as atheists.

Russian Orthodox church is firmly behind the Assad regime

(#286289)

Also of note re: Russian support of Syria in the fighting there, demonized for all sorts of reasons, but you may not have heard that the Russian Orthodox church is firmly behind the Assad regime on account of their concern for the fate of Orthodox Christians in Syria under other Islamist leadership. Syria doesn't get much attention here at the Forvm, but in Canada's corporate press, replacing Assad with an Islamist regime is looked upon with great favour.  But is it good for Israel?

You will kill 10 of our men, and we will kill 1 of yours, and in the end it will be you who tire of it. - Ho Chi Minh

I didn't realize 10% of Syria's population is Christian

(#286290)

Interesting fact, though I think we can conclude that Russia's support for Syria is mostly economically and geo-politically motivated.

 

... Overall it's a good thing if the US press isn't focused on a given set of events in the ME. It means the DoD is at most sending money and other minor resources to their preferred side in a dispute.

 

If the US press starts to focus on a country in the ME, it's usually to get some war propaganda rolling.

A History of Russo-Syrian Relations

(#286292)

This recent NY Times story focuses on marital relations (Russian brides; for reals!), but draws together several threads, including Syria's Baathism and Russia's only remaining military base outside the former USSR (a Mediterranean sea port) that bind the nations.

 

So while geo-politics and economics are always priorities, there are historically strong cultural and personal ties between Russia and Syria, too.

Great article

(#286293)

Thanks notyou.

"THAT culture at THAT time"??

(#286244)
Jay C's picture

And in that culture at that time, the disciples believed that the rich had an easier path to salvation, not harder, since the culture considered the rich to be blessed by God.

And, y'know: some things we shall always have with us....

 

 

Fair enough, in general

(#286248)
Bird Dog's picture

But prosperity theology is outside the mainstream, but I agree that there is no shortage of people who think they're blessed because God made them rich.

 

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Christ was a sponge!

(#286223)

“Christ was a sponge!" deblaterated fat Warholic, angrily leering, his face going heavy, with folds, like a bull's scrotum. He aimed a cold eye. "He was a fucking mendicant! A pet! A leech! A deadbeat! He was always walking around inveighing against ill-gotten riches and corruption by way of private property, but what did the guy ever do to pay his own way?" Inflamed with revenge, Warholic was ready to launch. Emotion made him impolite, and his bigoted fury prepared. A fierce thorn impaling him gave him unappeasable anger, a black, annihilating hatred of Christianity that allowed him the change he relished acutely to deliver the darts he would.

“Of the million subjects available to Christ, his second favorite to discuss, after the Kingdom of God—it is scripturally proven—was cash," barked the detracting editor. "Long green. The ol' do-re-mi. Spondulicks. Money! But, tell me, did he ever have any money on him? They had to bring the damned fool a denarius—Matthew 22:14—to make that obvious point about Caesar and God. He owned nothing. He borrowed everything. You people turn this into a virtue? He cadged. He wheedled. He bullied. It was not his own stable at birth. It was not his cross at death. The tomb he was buried in was not even his own. Live free or die, the good old New Hampshire state motto, right?"

Warholic was under full steam. Having been bested in such arguments before, he had done his homework, and it was bring it on.

“He was always hungry. Ever notice? He spitefully withered a fig tree for bearing no fruit just when he petulantly wanted something to eat (Matthew 21:19). Don't go trying to make me look like Mickey the Dunce. We learned all this crap seated at long wooden tables from Horev to Yavneh—Jew school to you jamokes, OK?—under the knuckle-knocking zaddiks in shul. What, you don't think we know our enemy? 'Where's the grub? Where's the grub?' he complained, starved for food when leaving Bethany and then frustrated, spitefully took it out on that tree. 'May no one ever eat from you again!' he cursed, blasting the tree with the prosecution of a poison finger. The very day before that, not twelve hours before, spitting in fury because of an empty stomach, he barged into the holy temple on his big feet and furiously punted over all the tables. That's not food rage? That's not a glaring example of hunger-spite? This scavenger is your messiah, Discknickers? Your savior? Mr. Big? He defended David's right to go barging into the house of God and blasphemously wolf down shewbread. The apostles and disciples themselves were always starving. The poor ignorant fools were driven like ravenous giraffes to have to snatch and munch handfuls of wheat in the fields, crumblestumble they had to glom from the fucking yarrowstalks through which they walked (Matthew 12:1-2)! Check your own bibles! Face it, Christ was the ultimate parasite and invitee. A dinner dog! He attended huge sumptuous banquets at a certain Levi's wearing costly apparel and gulping from flasks of date spirits and eating fig cakes, herbed cheese, and salted meat with rich, overindulged tax-collectors—Luke 5:29—but with a visible weakness for social climbing and parvenuism was constantly queening it at long groaning tables with pompous and wealthy snobs every chance he got! It was if he were born to the manor. Disgusting! Take a look sometime at that famous painting Feast in the House of Levi by Paolo Veronese which depicts exactly what I'm talking about where you can see this so-called ascetic of yours with perfumed hair all farputst and sporting exquisite silks and sitting center-stage in an expensive marbled atrium in the company of a whole passel of performing buffoons, noshers, red-nosed drunkards, upstart coons, pimp hustlers, fawning hangers-on, and a zooful of malignant dwarves without so much as a hint of anything spiritual. No elevated ideals at all. Scatheful! Devouring! Rude!

“On the cross itself he was still whining—I am thirsty!' Get me a Fresca! Why even after he dies, it is duly recorded by the four fabulists that he suddenly appears like Banquo's ghost, pale as paper, and what's the very first request from this universal bailiff of poverty and toiling in the vineyard? Exactly. 'Do you have anything to eat (Luke 24:41)? Will you tell me something, does a dead man have an appetite? Hunger pains? Belly cramps? 'Bring me some of the fish you have just caught,' he demands as if he had just sat down to table (John 21:10). Once again it is back to food, strapping on the feedbag, banging his tin cup up and down for a waiter. And so what happens? They throw the goldbricker a boiled fish! I told you, we had to memorize all this shit in yeshivots, twice a day. Christ then proceeds to tell the apostles or the epistles or whatever they were, 'Come and have breakfast, 'John 21:12 in the godbook, if you're interested. He tears into a hank of bread, then wolfs down a haddock or two. This is, what, an hour or two after he has been just raised from the dead? Unearthed from the dark tomb, folks, trailing his filthy graveclothes behind like a mud-mummy? Had he even a stomach?"

Indignant, Discknickers struggled to go after him, but Spalatin grabbed the accountant and said, "No point, he's on a roll."

“Tell me, who paid for all of Christ's lodgings? When he went roaming about the countryside with that circus troupe of his, all of those performing monkeys, wandering through Galilee, Caesarea, Sidon, Philippi, Carphanaum, and Bethpage, had the man a fucking shekel? Answer?" Warholic mockingly put an open hand to his ear. "I don't hear anything." He paused. "Had he a seashell?" He fake-looked up at the ceiling and hummed. "Cloudy with showers?" With a big grin, he stood back in triumph. "Don't all of you mevshavs look so shocked. Are you afraid you'll be hit by lightning and barbecued? These are facts, not fictions. My old rabbi who knew from Christian ugly and scorn and never failed to warn me not to trust a smiling Gentile—he came from an impoverished little dorp in Russia called Motol where the uncircumcized putzes all treated him like donkeyballs—used to quote Proverbs 30:15: 'The leech has two daughters. "Give! Give!" they cry.' I know I'm correct in saying that the figure the reb had in mind was nobody but your greedy Middle Eastern carpenter!"

“Swine," shot Discknickers.

Warholic shoved his face forward. "This was not a chiseler, a mooch, a beggar, a schnorrer figuring how to live off other people?"

“Jewwolf!"

“Do you happen to remember how one day just roaming around the countryside he spies that rich little shitpad, Zacchaeus, and walking right up to the guy, buttonholes him with, 'I must stop at your house today' (Luke 19:5). What is this rubbish, I must? I must reach into your deep pockets and grab some cash, you gullible nudnicks? He brazenly walks—walks—into the houses of strangers and commandeers their rooms as if he fucking owned them (Mark 7:24-25)! Drop what you're doin, bublik, I don't give a shit what, and wait on me! What poor slob had to pay for the luxury of the Upper Room into which this bearded nuchshlepper walks with all of those stinking, illiterate fisherfolk for companions (Matthew 26:18)? He appropriated some perfect stranger's room for Passover the same way because that was his habit! Beggary! Who paid for the donkey on which he rode into Jerusalem? Clyde Beatty? Robert Ruark? Buffalo Bill? The Ringling Brothers? A delegation of suits from the Moose Club of Nazareth? He then proceeds to order some of his lackeys to go into town and snag a colt and a donkey—a donkey he royally insists, notice, that no one has ever ridden—giving these same obedient dumbbells by way of permission in taking these animals the lame excuse to pass on as an explanation, 'The Lord needs them.' The Lord—! The Lord, my ass! Hey, the Lord needs someone to settle my gas bill! The Lord needs someone to buy my lunch! How about to float my loans and to pay my taxes and to cover my mortgage? Why not simply come out and declare without the flannel, 'We, the Gestapo, take what we want'?

“He was always riding in someone's boat, ordering one of his pursuivants to pour him a cup of water, demanding that milling crowds be parted for him to walk through, insisting they throw their cloaks into the roads, badgering someone to feed him, commanding someone to wash his feet or to fetch him this or that. These were just plain scams, out and out. I've often wondered whether research into the old police records of Jerusalem, if such still exist, would not reward the industrious investigator with proof that as a deadbeat Christ the check-kiter didn't spend some serious time in the clink, wearing cast-iron leg-chains for all of those pea-and-thimble tricks he pulled on the innocent and unsuspecting. Expensive oils and unguents were always being lavished on him (Matthew 26:7) which of course he assumed were his due. Had he and his family already been so badly spoiled by the Magi's extravagant offerings given him at birth which he felt were owed him and which his parents clearly cashed in in order to travel to Egypt? Had he no ethics? Nothing stopped the man. He kept it up day after day. All sorts of people were pissed off, of course. The Pharisees. The Essenes. The Roman authorities. Did that make him rein it in? Not a bit. The dude never quit. No, I can see nothing in his character to persuade me that any indignation a flout of his might arouse would have driven him from a place he did not want to leave. There were too many good pickings there! He turned his disciples and dogsbodies into beggars. Remember how he told all of them whenever they were setting out to bring nothing but scrip and staff?"

---

Thought that was quite amusing, and all true, of course. Christ was a sponge, and his followers were worse. But misses the point: We are all beggars before God.

 

You will kill 10 of our men, and we will kill 1 of yours, and in the end it will be you who tire of it. - Ho Chi Minh

Par For The Course For The Ur-Moonbat

(#286043)
M Scott Eiland's picture

As one of our absent brethren would say in other contexts, "Fight the real enemy!" Which in this case, is capitalism and private property in general.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Natural Capital it is, then.

(#286031)

Listen, if calling it Natural Capital means bean counters everywhere on the planet gain insight into the worth of natural habitat left alone or nearly so, then so be it. Call it that. Call it whatever it needs to be called.

 

Because ultimately bean counters run companies and nations and decide what is viable and what isn't, not by looking at pictures of pandas, but by looking at spreadsheets.

 

This would not be the first time I think Monbiot is missing the point (to be charitable). His screeds against air travel (which he uses), irked me years ago already. A zealot, he knows the value of everything but the cost of nothing.

 

Privatization is a non-issue. The land in question is already in private hands. What matters is what they do with it. Any way to monetize a tropical forest that leaves it standing is fine by me.

This was clear enough to Larkin, whose patriotism rested on the notion that England was the worst place on earth with the possible exception of everywhere else.

Meh. It's Only a Financial Asset

(#286083)

if it can eventually be monetized.

 

Bill McKibben's recent climate article in Rolling Stone illustrates the problem with the spreadsheet approach.

If you told Exxon or Lukoil that, in order to avoid wrecking the climate, they couldn't pump out their reserves, the value of their companies would plummet. John Fullerton, a former managing director at JP Morgan who now runs the Capital Institute, calculates that at today's market value, those 2,795 gigatons of carbon emissions are worth about $27 trillion. Which is to say, if you paid attention to the scientists and kept 80 percent of it underground, you'd be writing off $20 trillion in assets.

These assets, of course, have already been added to investors' spreadsheets the world over.

Or, in other words, Mitt Romney killed his wife

(#285986)
Bird Dog's picture

Even though she died in 2006, seven years after Romney left Bain to run the Olympics (link).

So, if a wife dies seven years after Obama-led GM closes a dealership in 2009 that the husband worked at, which resulted in a loss of health benefits, then going by the ad, I guess it's fair to say that Obama killed her. The irony is that the man who ran Bain after 1999 and pulled the plug on GST in 2001 is now an Obama bundler.

 

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Mitt killed Ann?

(#285992)
Jay C's picture

So who's been fronting Rafalca all this time???

 

(NB: This is snark, BD: you might want to re-think the composition of your subject lines a bit.... ;) )

Fair enough

(#286012)
Bird Dog's picture

Replace "his" with "the guy's"

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

When did the lady lose her health insurance?

(#285987)

If she still didn't have insurance and that was the reason she didn't report her illness, then I don't see the problem. Of course that wasn't asked.

 

Political reporters are so dumb it hurts.

Another ad where the wheels have come off

(#286011)
Bird Dog's picture

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Ooops!

(#286178)

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79482.html

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

Diversion

(#286194)
Bird Dog's picture

A lame response does not negate the dishonesty of the ad.

 

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

It speaks to the difficulty

(#286236)

It speaks to the difficulty of pandering to his crazy-pants base and media divas while still looking sane enough to attract undecided voters.  He ain't doing so hot.

The spokepersons response to the ad

(#286235)

is the bigger story.

 

Wheels coming off: http://www.businessinsider.com/rush-limbaugh-andrea-saul-romneycare-romney-obama-election-2012-8

 

 

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

OMG, the squeals of outrrage at Redstate! nt

(#286237)
HankP's picture

.

I blame it all on the Internet

Apparently a successful diversion

(#286234)
Jay C's picture

Thanks to Andrea Saul's offhand remark - a real-life illustration of that classic definition of "gaffe" if I've ever seen one - the whole focus of the discussion has now been shifted away from Republicans' vaporous, pearl-clutching fauxtrage over the utter awful awfulness of the ad, and back onto its main point: the crippling financial burdens our messed-up healthcare system can place on ordinary folks: and, just coincidentally, highlight the GOP's mindless fetish for "repealing Obamacare" as the callous politicized time-waste that it is. Another well-aimed, high-caliber shot neatly placed in their own foot by the Romney campaign.

Possible premature speculation about wheels coming off

(#286024)
brutusettu's picture

1: Romney says he stopped being remotely involved the company he is the sole owner of

2: The Dude gets laid off.

3: The Dude's wife gets injured at work, leaves job because of the injury.

4: years go by without steady health insurance.

5: The Dude's wife is found to be in late stage cancer that started near a currently unknown year

6: What kind of cancer was it?

7: Can the cancer be likely treated if caught earlier?

8: Did/would the Dude's wife likely get a checkup that would catch the cancer earlier if they had health insurance?

9: If the Dude's wife would go for screenings if she had health coverage, no partial credit for an attack ad on the guy that is running away from nation-wide Romneycare, let alone someone that would claim they'd never sign a singlepayer system under any circumstances?

 

 

Foot-powered washer/dryer for developing countries

(#285976)
Bird Dog's picture

Cool.

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

BD, thanks a bunch for the link.

(#286181)
mmghosh's picture

$40 is an amazing price.  It would work very well here, where there is no water supply issue.  Waste water treatment could be, but there could be ways to work round it.  I'll try to see if I can get it here.  Thanks again.

freedom is a fundamental value that does not need to be justified in terms of some other value like efficiency

talking of tilted tables, who owns that fruit?

(#285952)

It might be worth adding to Monbiot's piece that environmentalists finally seem to be cottoning on the fact that once the fate of a proposed scheme is to be determined by a 'cost/benefit analysis' they might as well give up. The environment always loses.

 

And about enclosure, two neighbours, both have fenced in properties. One neighbour has a large apple tree. Some of the fruit falls into the property of the other treeless neighbour. Who owns that fruit?

You will kill 10 of our men, and we will kill 1 of yours, and in the end it will be you who tire of it. - Ho Chi Minh

Fallen fruit? I know! I know!!

(#285973)
Jay C's picture

One of the few basic tenets I recall learning in my college civics class is that (under American legal standards, as far as I understand them)  when one "owns" a fruit tree in one's own yard, any fruit that drops into the neighbor's yard is, under law, theirs. The assumption being (AFAIK), that if one wants to keep one's neighbor from getting free apples from your tree, you should prune the damn thing back yourself: property rights, in this case, trumping the chance distribution of "assets".

 

Of course, my college days were a while ago: after decades of Republican ascendancy, who knows what's current?

this was the topic of an old Ann Landers column

(#285980)

I think this was the topic of an old Ann Landers column, and I think she answered the apples belonged to the treeless neighbour but if that neighbour were to sell the apples rather than simply eat them, the tree owner would be entitled to some (or total) monetary compensation. Seems a bit of a weird distinction to me, and I wonder if it's true.

You will kill 10 of our men, and we will kill 1 of yours, and in the end it will be you who tire of it. - Ho Chi Minh

It's called "windfall" in common law, and

(#285981)

the treeless farmer owns everything that blows over the fenceline without encumbrance. Similar to the concept of "act of God" for insurance purposes: common law doesn't presume to supersede random natural events.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

Vigilante justice at the Olympics

(#285940)

It Seems Unjust. . .

(#285956)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .that her public spirited action forced her to miss the actual race. Maybe Mr. Bolt and Mr. Blake should pay her a visit. (-:

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

That is an awesome story

(#285942)

Don't expect to F around in the stands at the summer olympics.

Bachmann thankful that no Americans died in Sikh shooting

(#285919)
Bird Dog's picture

Classy.

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Captured her to a tee

(#285923)

Black humor, maybe you have never heard of it?

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

Indeed

(#285951)
Bird Dog's picture

The black was there, the humor not.

 

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Au contraire

(#285991)
HankP's picture

it's hilarious if you know anything about Bachmann and the modern GOP.

I blame it all on the Internet

Uh, no

(#286009)
Bird Dog's picture

It's hilarious if you're ignorant of and have caricaturish views of the GOP and conservatives, as you commenting history has amply showed.

 

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Over the line...

(#286239)

 

Your last yellow was a couple of weeks ago. Consider this one being valid for 30 days.

 

Do it again and I will suspend you with no warning.

 

In case you don't understand, the offending line is:

 

It's hilarious if you're ignorant

This was clear enough to Larkin, whose patriotism rested on the notion that England was the worst place on earth with the possible exception of everywhere else.

Fine

(#286245)
Bird Dog's picture

Then be evenhanded about it. The previous comment, in a direct reply to yours truly, was "it's hilarious if you know anything about Bachmann and the modern GOP", the implication being that if I don't find it hilarious, then I don't know a thing about Bachmann or my party. It's the same if-then statement that I used and equally line-crossing.

 

 

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Ossly enough, I would agree

(#286247)

if you hadn't gone on to identify your target with: as you commenting history has amply showed.

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

If That's The Standard. . .

(#286250)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .then another yellow card would appear to be in order.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Huh

(#286249)
Bird Dog's picture

What people say in previous comments is there for anyone to see.

 

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Hanks comment was generic

(#286252)

yours was made specific, see the difference?

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

If it was generic,

(#286254)
Bird Dog's picture

then the "add comment" button would've press instead of "reply". Hank clearly threw down the knowledge/ignorance card, as in "I'm the knowledgeable one and you're the ignoramus", intimating that if I only knew anything about Bachmann and the GOP, then The Onion piece would've been funny. Since I already expressed that it lacked humor, the implicit assumption is that BD is ignorant of her and the party of which I've been a member of for over 30 years. The ego in that message was irritating and the direct insult was clear.

And BTW, I'll defer to the moderators' judgment, not yours.

 

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

It's not always about you

(#286263)

and Hank's comment cleverly didn't reference you specifically. Your comment was less clever.

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

Eh

(#286277)
Bird Dog's picture

So who did Hank reply to, a potted plant? And in direct reply, he said "you". I think it's more than reasonable to infer that "you" in his direct reply was BD. As stated, I won't defer to your overly biased judgment.

 

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Sure

(#286029)
HankP's picture

everyone is just imagining it.

 

Who am I going to believe, you or my lying eyes?

I blame it all on the Internet

Yep

(#286033)
Bird Dog's picture

Ignorance and caricaturishness displayed. After all, there is no difference between Muslims and Sikhs as they are all brown-skinned.

 

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Speaking of Bachmann, ignorance & caricaturishness...

(#286077)

She accuses Barack Obama's administration of collaborating with/being influenced by the Muslim Brotherhood. I wonder where the Onion got the idea that she's a McCarthyite nitwit.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

It appears there is no difference to Republicans

(#286036)
HankP's picture

History of Hate Crimes Against Sikhs Since 9/11

I blame it all on the Internet

You might be wrong, Hank, in assuming

(#286085)
mmghosh's picture

that the there is anti-Sikh bigotry because Sikhs are mistaken for Muslims.  There seems to be some unhappiness with the Sikh presence in the USA, as Sikhs.

 

freedom is a fundamental value that does not need to be justified in terms of some other value like efficiency

Somewhat related

(#286089)

I noticed how few flags seemed to be flying at half mast yesterday in San Diego. Even government buildings didn't seem to notice that Obama said they should be flying at half mast until the 10th. Walking the dog, I counted only 2 out of 12, one at a Chinese cultural center and the other at the local Y, which seems pretty concerned with diversity and inclusion. 

 

It made me wonder whether, if seven caucasians had been shot in a christian church, the tragedy would've been more widely observed.

 

Another thought is that the Sikh shooting came right on the heels of the CO shooting, so maybe people are burned out with observing shooting tragedies.  

Those Romney voters

(#286086)

are a sicko bunch are they not?

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

Fascinating

(#286051)
Bird Dog's picture

The implicit assumption that every attack was committed by a conservative Republican. Yep. Ignorance. Caricature.

 

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Well...

(#286187)
stinerman's picture

Not all Republicans are racists, but just about all racists are Republican.

The Constitution does not vest in Congress the authority to protect society from every bad act that might befall it. -- Clarence Thomas

Well, Since PM Isn't Around. . .

(#286056)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .at least we can read amateurish imitations of his style now and again. Probably more often as the election approaches.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

I'd bet good money

(#286054)
HankP's picture

the vast majority of the attacks were. You don't see Democrats inflaming the rubes with talk about Sharia law, but it was the subject of candidates trying to outdo each other in anti-Muslim bigotry during the Republican candidate debates. Or other Republicans around the country explicitly promoting anti-Muslim bigotry.

 

Best for you to leave the party that promotes these despicable beliefs rather than stay and have to defend them.

I blame it all on the Internet

Well heck, why not just put it all out there

(#286068)
Bird Dog's picture

You could pull a Reid, make up an imaginary friend who told you that all those attacks were by conservative Republicans. After all, it dovetails nicely with preconceived storylines and prejudices. But then, your credibility would be just as shot as Scuzbag Harry's when it comes to actually supporting your accusations. How inconvenient.

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

The GOP isn't exactly occupying the high ground on the issue

(#286082)

Check this out: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/lou-ann-zelenik-congress

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

You don't know Reid made it up

(#286070)
HankP's picture

yet you keep claiming it as fact. I'm sure there's a word for that, I wish I had a dictionary handy ...

 

I'll give Reid credit, he sure knows how to get under Republican skins. Maybe he'll be the subject of the next two minute hate. Except that for Republicans it's now the 24 hour hate, where he gets added to the list ... along with Muslims.

I blame it all on the Internet

One particular conservative in this instance

(#286014)

Like I said. Captures her to a tee and she's very popular. Serves on the House Intelligence Committee and ran as a republican presidential candidate. Embarrassing for sure, but an accurate caricature no less.

"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias

Republicans have no sense of humor

(#285993)

This PC prohibition on ever laughing at conservatives makes me long for am radio.

Veepstakes and Wikipedia Edits

(#285914)

NPR with a nifty article on reading the tea leaves of Wikipedia edits. Looking back, they notice that Sarah Palin's Wiki page was updated at least 68 times in the hours before John McCain announced her addition to the 2008 GOP ticket. Similarly, Biden's page saw about 40 edits in the final hours, with a flurry of 111 edits in the five days prior to Obama's announcement of his VP pick.

 

So whose wiki pages are seeing the most tweaking these days? Ohio Sen. Rob Portman is the winner, with 16 27 edits today alone

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

This should've gone in Hank's Veepstakes diary,

(#285950)

but no worries, Hank totally copped my link.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

It's all about you, Jordan

(#286032)
HankP's picture

install my app so I can see what you're doing uh, I mean, it'll be good to see you next week.

I blame it all on the Internet

Joke's on you, Hank.

(#286076)

I don't have a smartphone. My phone is dumb as a brillo pad, and it shows my GPS location as "1998."

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

Political intimidation of the Fed

(#285913)

Head of the Boston Fed Reserve implies it's a significant component of Fed inaction:

 

“We don’t get to pick the timing of a global slowdown,” Eric Rosengren said. “If there’s a slowdown and you have an independent central bank, the appropriate response is to act."

 

I think the election is a reasonable guess as to why the Fed is doing nothing in the face of stagnating high unemployment, a global downturn, and inflation that is below it's target of 2% (though not much below).

 

Unfortunately, the quote above strikes me as a sign of desperation, and does not bode well for any action before the election.

Chicken politics.

(#285905)
mmghosh's picture

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/22/iran-economy-chicken-idUSL6E8I...

Iran's social networks are buzzing. "There are two classes of people: below the chicken line and above the chicken line," quipped one Twitter posting from a Shiraz resident.

---

Officials, worried about popular resentment, have done their best to assure irate Iranians that chicken will be in plentiful supply and at fair prices.

 

There have been widely announced fines for those found to be profiteering, proclamations on the provision of government-subsidised chicken for the holy month of Ramadan, and reassurances that tonnes of healthy stock will soon be available at market.

Pictures of queues of people hoping to buy government-subsidised chicken have been widely carried in state-influenced Iranian media in the last several weeks - apparently to demonstrate that the government is addressing the problem.

freedom is a fundamental value that does not need to be justified in terms of some other value like efficiency