Start The Week Open Thread.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Cali downgraded by S&P....

(#201932)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

....to A-. Not the end of the world, but being a step above Greece isn't saying much.

-“It is unwise for the government to tell people how they can spend their money” - Barney Frank, Chairman House Financial Services Committee, on on-line gambling, 2009

if it means people will move out of CA and lower costs

(#201992)

then great!

Why would they move out?

(#202032)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

The whole reason is they're getting a lot of services neither they, nor apparently anybody else, want to pay for. :^)

The emigration will come if and when the crisis results in either a big jump in taxes or a big cut in services, or both.

-“It is unwise for the government to tell people how they can spend their money” - Barney Frank, Chairman House Financial Services Committee, on on-line gambling, 2009

Except.

(#202034)
Desidiosus's picture

For all California's public crisis, the other states are doing about the same. I'd really like to see a bailout. That's something which would do some good.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

Sez you.

(#202056)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/Texas_state_budget

TX is looking at declines in revenue, just like everybody else, but the rainy-day fund and relative budget restraint have helped. Upshot: S&P upgraded the state to AA+ in August. It may be a good idea to keep state legislatures part-time, they have less opportunity to get into trouble. :^)

-“It is unwise for the government to tell people how they can spend their money” - Barney Frank, Chairman House Financial Services Committee, on on-line gambling, 2009

I think every state in the Union...

(#202063)
Desidiosus's picture

...should discover massive and cheaply tapped oil reserves.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

LNG, baby.

(#202065)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

Get with the times. Cheaply tapped low-CO2 footprint energy reserves. Hell, they just put in a well a few miles from us.

-“It is unwise for the government to tell people how they can spend their money” - Barney Frank, Chairman House Financial Services Committee, on on-line gambling, 2009

Tonight's Opening on 2.2B Project in LA (Pic)

(#201993)

things are tough, but not that tough (I had reason to shoot it)

IMG_0028sl

Traveller

Just in case you were forgetting.....

(#201925)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

1.8%, baby!

-“It is unwise for the government to tell people how they can spend their money” - Barney Frank, Chairman House Financial Services Committee, on on-line gambling, 2009

Most of the drop IMHO is from the liberal wing of the party

(#202008)

not seeing enough change fast enough... That and the compromise that is the senates cooling chamber for change. That the senate has some real structural faults IMHO related to the country being able to address real problems in real time reminds me of reading about ROME getting to the point that no one could get anything done in the end leading to the fall of the empire....

The world moves at such a fast pace and our government was design to be stable for an era long gone... ( I am not sure how to fix the problems or if they can be fixed.) Who knows maybe it is just me but I would love the senate to go the way of the house of lords. Maybe just focus on FP and budget issues. Or set the budget up in two year cycles so that we can address things in a less compact way with more thought going into different areas....

Ask courageous questions. Do not be satisfied with superficial answers. Be open to wonder and at the same time subject all claims to knowledge, without exception, to intense skeptical scrutiny. Be aware of human fallibility. Cherish your species and your

Sounds about right.

(#201926)
Desidiosus's picture

He should get 5-10% from HCR and 3-5% from DADT repeal. If he can get unemployment down below 8% or so, he'll keep his two majorities.

Which means, of course, that Job One for Republicans is preventing Job One from appearing for the average American. I wonder if our elite media will notice this any time in the next year or so. Heh. Indeed.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

Oh he'll keep his majorities

(#201936)
stinerman's picture

The House is too lopsided and the Republicans would have to just about run the table in the Senate to get anywhere near 51 (remember, in the case of a tie, the Democrats win).

Is MA up for the expired term of Mr. Kennedy and again for a full term in 2010? If so, expect the possible Republican from Massachusetts to be gone in 2010.

I think it is up to the judge to say what the Constitution provided, even if what it provided is not the best answer, even if you think it should be amended. If that's what it says, that's what it says.
-- Antonin Scalia

2010 may be a very interesting election

(#202157)

given the overall view of the Guv by the genearl population.

““I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with this administration, somehow you’re not patriotic. We need to stand up and say we’re Americans, and we have the right to debate and disagree with any administration!”” –H

I'll give you that

(#202182)
stinerman's picture

There is no doubt it will be very unconventional.

The public is fickle; there is no doubt about that. They give the Democrats a working majority for 2 years and out? That would seem to be really ... stupid.

I would feel the same way about the Republicans if they tried their hand for 2 cycles and got tossed out on their arses. People should be patient.

I think it is up to the judge to say what the Constitution provided, even if what it provided is not the best answer, even if you think it should be amended. If that's what it says, that's what it says.
-- Antonin Scalia

I know I will!

(#201927)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

I just bookmarked this for future reference. :^)

-“It is unwise for the government to tell people how they can spend their money” - Barney Frank, Chairman House Financial Services Committee, on on-line gambling, 2009

Please do.

(#201928)
Desidiosus's picture

He won't hit that unemployment target, FTR, before he fires Larry Summers.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

A twofer!

(#201931)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

Banner day, Des, banner day.

-“It is unwise for the government to tell people how they can spend their money” - Barney Frank, Chairman House Financial Services Committee, on on-line gambling, 2009

Heh.

(#201945)
Desidiosus's picture

Maybe you can send me the booze other folks keep promising me when they lose bets.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

LOL!

(#202012)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

I ain't coverin' welchers. But if I see anything worth betting over, I'll let you know.

(Hmmn, maybe we should set up a separate page to cover bets like the thing between Sulla & M62 regarding temperatures. I'd rather keep all this stuff easily accessible, if possible. Mods? Hank?)

-“It is unwise for the government to tell people how they can spend their money” - Barney Frank, Chairman House Financial Services Committee, on on-line gambling, 2009

To create a separate page

(#202068)

instead of "New Diary", click on "Create Content" and then click on "Page". You'll need to record the page link after you've created it (http://www.theforvm.org/your-page-name), send me that link and I'll put a box in the sidebar with links to the pages you create. You can create pages that allow comments or ones that don't, the original author will always be able to edit the content.

I blame it all on the Internet

You rock, Hank. - nt

(#202151)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

.

-“It is unwise for the government to tell people how they can spend their money” - Barney Frank, Chairman House Financial Services Committee, on on-line gambling, 2009

What's the temperature bet between Sulla and M62?

(#202044)

I must have missed it.

Temperature Bet

(#202048)

Link: Nate Silver Bet

Scroll down for the Monthly updates. I'm up by a supermarket paperback.

We shoulda used degrees above/below average per day rather than just days above/below average, but so far so good!

Daily temp above/below average....

(#202046)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

....at $0.25 a day, IIRC. M62 posts updates periodically, but I think it would be nice to keep on-going stuff like that, as opposed to diaries-of-the-moment, easily accessible. I'm genuinely interested in how it comes out, and I'd like to encourage that sort of "memory".

-“It is unwise for the government to tell people how they can spend their money” - Barney Frank, Chairman House Financial Services Committee, on on-line gambling, 2009

Seconding the Wager Page Idea

(#202051)

A Things We Agree on page would be good, too.

Perhaps a page for things we're never gonna agree on, as well. A sort of reverse topoi, but instead of referring to the topoi page for arguments*, we sequester them there.

--------------
*I know, slippery usage.

By the by, Bernard, you are supposed to be

(#202049)

making up a Forvm Heroes/ines Top 10 diairy, IIRC.

As for M62, he is a mod now, so I guess he could FP the bet.

Good Lord, where did I sign up for that?

(#202050)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

I'm not even sure what it is. Refresh my memory.

-“It is unwise for the government to tell people how they can spend their money” - Barney Frank, Chairman House Financial Services Committee, on on-line gambling, 2009

Feynman thread.

(#202055)

Come on, now.

Not to beat BlaiseP's cymbal,

(#202029)
Desidiosus's picture

but the welching isn't doing much for my overall worldview that conservatives seem to regard their statements as something of a Pirate's Code in general.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

what welching are you talking about?

(#202047)

nt

Member of the Forvm Five

You should be all in favor of....

(#202033)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

...my proposal above, then.

Anyway, I'm Proud To Be A Pirate.

-“It is unwise for the government to tell people how they can spend their money” - Barney Frank, Chairman House Financial Services Committee, on on-line gambling, 2009

nice summary of NBC's leadership

(#201899)

From Gawker, of all places:

There was a time, a couple years back, when CBS was in the tank, and Letterman spent night after night specifically mocking, by name, CBS President Les Moonves. It was wonderful TV. Letterman is a crank, of course, but once CBS recovered, he stopped. Moonves may be a prick, but CBS is on top. Conan doesn't have Letterman's killer instinct, but the time might be right to switch from the "NBC" jokes to Jeff Zucker jokes. Amusingly, they know each other: when they were at Harvard, Conan was with The Harvard Lampoon and Zucker was the president of The Harvard Crimson.

As a prank, O'Brien's staff stole all the Crimson issues one day before they could be delivered. Zucker called the cops. "My first meeting with Jeff Zucker was in handcuffs, with a Cambridge police officer reading me my rights," says O'Brien.

See? Humorless a@#hole then, humorless a@#hole now.

http://gawker.com/5447336/

http://gawker.com/5447336/

They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist...
-- General John B. Sedgwick, 1864

Must Suck To Be A USC Alum Right Now

(#201858)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Turning on the news to find out that Lane Kiffin is all USC could find to replace Pete Carroll is for Trojan football fans the functional equivalent of falling asleep next to Eliza Dushku and waking up to find Sandra Bernhard. USC must be looking at some horrendous NCAA sanctions if they're inclined to settle for Kiffin for the time being--no use paying a real coach if you won't be able to recruit or compete anyway.

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.--from Ulysses, by Alfred, Lord Tennyson

Well, Pete Carrol Left Because Mike Garrett threw Tim Floyd

(#201863)


...under the bus.

I mean completely let him take a full body hit on the OJ Mayo allegations.

I know that I tend to be defense minded, but Pete left before Garrett could slip the knife in his back...

Garrett is a snake and a nasty piece of work.

Good for Uncle Pete getting away from Garrett...

Now then, as much as I dislike Garrett, and this knows no bounds, the hire of Lane and Monte Kiffen, bringing along Ed Orgeron and maybe (!) Norm Chow...has got to be a coup for Mr. Garrett.

I still hate the so and so, but he's the winner in this blood bath...I think entirely engineered by Mike Garrett.

The question is, how does Rick Neuheisel over at UCLA feel about having Chow poached by Kiffen after rescuing Mr. Chow from the Tennessee Titans?

Pretty weird for sure.

Best Wishes, Traveller

Advanced political sclerosis

(#201852)

This is what it looks like.

But when he failed to immediately step up to the microphones in Hawaii after the Christmas terror and thank the passengers for bravely foiling the plot that his intelligence community had failed to see, President Cool reached the limits of cool.

No Drama Obama is reticent about displays of emotion. The Spock in him needs to exert mental and emotional control. That is why he stubbornly insists on staying aloof and setting his own deliberate pace for responding — whether it’s in a debate or after a debacle. But it’s not O.K. to be cool about national security when Americans are scared.

[...]

He’s so sure of himself and his actions that he fails to see that he misses the moment to be president — to be the strong father who protects the home from invaders, who reassures and instructs the public at traumatic moments.

He’s more like the aloof father who’s turned the Situation Room into a Seminar Room.

I note with amusement Dowd's omission of the first person: she does not say that she needed to be "reassured" or "instructed" by the President following a terrorist incident. America, I think MoDo just called you a bunch of ignorant p*ssies! Whaddyagonnadoaboutit?

The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.

Can't Speak for MoDo

(#201888)

But the only thing I wanted to hear from the authorities was how to comply with the new security procedures and how much additional time I could expect to spend waiting in line. I suspect most Americans felt the same.

Those Americans concerned with the absence of reassurances had copy inches to fill and political points to score.

MoDo desperately seeks notoriety

(#201873)

Whatever Obama does, however he acts, she will say he should be doing the opposite.

Film at 11.

The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.

Haven't you heard? Sang froid's out. The Emotional Male is back!

(#201872)

That's until Obama gets choked up at some public event. Then MoDo will crucify him as a wussy that's gonna get us all killed. MoDo's column invariably tells you more about MoDO than about anything she writes about.

Sorta.

(#201885)
Desidiosus's picture

It tells you a lot more about her bosses.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

Ali-Mohammadi

(#201827)

Iranian nuclear physicist and opposition figure Massoud Ali-Mohammadi was killed by a bomb outside his house today. Nuclear scientist and opposition leader strikes me as a pretty dangerous combination, damn near everyone wants you dead. First tier suspects:

Iran Govt. Evidence for: They don't like opposition leaders, and they're generally murderous and violent. Evidence against: Why bother with the fancy bomb? It's not like they're shy about openly arresting opponents.

Israeli agents. Evidence for: They don't like nuclear scientists, and they're generally murderous and violent. Evidence against: Israelis usually do a lot more open nudging and winking when denying a kill, and usually go after higher value targets.

MEK. Evidence for: They don't like anyone, bombing is their signature technique, and they're generally murderous and violent. Evidence against: Their normal targets are politicians and security personnel.

2nd tier suspects: CIA, Baluchis, Kurds, Al-Qaida. When you think about it, it's remarkable he stayed alive this long.

Somewhere, Glenn Reynolds is smiling. nt

(#201850)

.

The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.

Good news on the DADT front?

(#201809)

LINK

Congressional negotiators and White House officials are moving forward with plans to add the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell to the upcoming defense authorization bill, Democratic sources tell the Huffington Post.

Hopefully this happens in the next few months.

(h/t - Balloon Juice)

"And now you run in search of the Jedi. They are all dead, save one. And one broken Jedi cannot stop the darkness that is to come." -Darth Sion

About time. - nt

(#201811)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

.

-“It is unwise for the government to tell people how they can spend their money” - Barney Frank, Chairman House Financial Services Committee, on on-line gambling, 2009

Anne Applebaum

(#201797)

has noticed -- shocking, I know -- that jihadis, at least the dangerous ones, are not subliterate peasants but radicalized professionals. (The assumption that any foreigner who has mastered technology can thereby be assumed to have become culturally "Westernized" says more about the West than about its foes, but I digress.) She hits the nail on the head by noting that:

The Bayraks and Balawis of this world are engaged in constant debates -- in Internet chat rooms, in the halls of publishing houses, in mosques. Are they hearing enough counterarguments? Are we helping the people who make the counterarguments?

Those are worthy questions. But a worthier question still is: are the counterarguments valid? Is the United States actually a liberal and tolerant society, or is it a bellicose and authoritarian one? P.R. -- as the CIA, infant-like, rediscovers to its surprise in each new war -- can only take you so far.

Arguments about political power and legitimacy are hardly new, either. The trouble is that we seem to have lost all faith in even the partial solutions afforded by history. We maintain lip service to them, to be sure, but we don't practice them. This means we are hypocrites. It means we can't hold up our side of the argument. And worst of all, it means that the Bayraks and Balawis of the world are not entirely wrong.

The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.

The US is both liberal and tolerant

(#202045)

when compared to the bombers. Why does the US need to hold up arguments? (or anybody, for that matter)

Bombing airplanes in peacetime is not justified under any circumstance.

In terms of foreign policy?

(#202053)
Desidiosus's picture

No, not particularly. We've killed way, way more Afghan innocents than AQ could possibly dream of killing ours.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

2008 Mumbai attacks

(#201838)
brutusettu's picture

Were done by exploited poor youth of Pakistan, at least one of them didn't know how to use a faucet.

Various Thoughts

(#201759)

1) The way that anti-racism was pushed from the top down over the last forty years was for the most part a massive success. Changing social attitudes can take generations, so it is damn impressive when the state, media, entertainment industry, educational establishment &c. can all get on the same sheet of music and achieve something.

But to some extent, the rapidity of this effort has meant lots of cutting of corners. The biggest area of a cut corner was the blanket adoption of the N-word taboo. Making said slur the most unacceptable thing you can say in public was a shortcut. The idea was to get rid of a set of linguistic structures that were part of a larger apparatus of oppression. A side effect, however, is that a lot of people have the idea that racism has become of a matter of not saying dirty words. Witness the nonsense about Reid's use of the term "negro."

Another part of the anti-racism efforts were the inculcation of what I call the essentialization of racism. When society at large defined racist as the worst thing someone could be, we wound up with the idea of racist as a noun, of something that you are rather than something you do. So you get things like, "I'm not a racist, but why are they so lazy that they can't be bothered to learn proper English?" or indeed, any of the million other iterations of, "I'm not a racist, but..."

(Of course, none other than Eichmann basically said, "I'm not an anti-Semite, some of my best friends are Jewish" at his trial in Jerusalem, so this sort of thing goes at least back to the 60s).

2) Some anecdata about the job market. Last month, I was talking about teaching a course in another state with a program co-ordinator, but in the end, decided against it (because a single course isn't worth relocating unless one is independently wealthy). As part of this mulling, I was searching for opportunities for second jobs in the area to which I was relocating. I was using the nifty job aggregator indeed.com. In mid-December, the opening page noted in the neighborhood of 400k job postings nationwide for the prior week. Give that this number was down substantially from previous weeks, it was not surprising that December's job numbers were negative.

Today, out of curiosity (and to avoid other responsibilities), I checked again and noted that there were over 900k postings over the last week. These sort of things are noisy, but job postings tend to serve as a rough barometer of employment. I've also got a single anecdatum in that the boss at my U6 job is planning on (finally!) hiring some more help.

Moreover, I've noticed that in the last month or so, the LTL truckers doing pickups have tended to have trucks that are just about full, whereas back in October, the trucks that would do pickups from my shipping area would usually have all of one pallet, the one that I was shipping, and that would be it. So it looks like some genuinely sustained growth.

Of course, since my escape from one form of underemployment to another depends on the budgets of the states, my inner Guerreriste wants to see the federal government borrow (or the Federal Reserve conjure up) another few hundred million dollars to help the state governments make it through the next year or two.

3) Backdoor erosion of the Bill of Rights.

It is generally known and accepted that one cannot cure a pederast. So we have something of a tricky question as to what happens once someone has molested a child, been caught and sentenced, and then finished his sentence. What *does* one do if we know with an almost absolute certainty that if released they will only molest again?

The solution is civil commitment, i.e., if a prisoner is determined to be "sexually dangerous," keeping him confined in perpetuity. Now then, this practice has been challenged and is going before the Supreme Court today so that they can rule on its constitutionality.

Supposing that they do rule that a pederast can be confined indefinitely, regardless of the length of his sentence? What does this mean for the Constitution if we gradually keep adding on to the category of people who are Too Dangerous to Ever be Released? I mean, it is pretty clear that you can't just release a terrorist or pederast out into the general population, but once you start adding to the categories of people who get extra-judicially locked away for the duration, where does it end? Better to make some convictions automatically carry a life sentence and do it within the law than to do this. But then, my mind isn't entirely made up in this matter.

4) Iraqi police and Iraqi Army S-2's appear to finally be getting serious with bomb prevention. For the past few months, the Iraqi response to the big bombings was to grab someone, beat a confession out of him, and proclaim that they'd gotten the perp. They finally appear to be getting better about doing things left of boom, as it were. Good for them.

And that is all.

On the Constitutionality of indefinite detainment

(#201790)

for sex offenders after a prison term is served.

I gleaned over the oral transcript.

On the one hand, you've got the federal gov. arguing it has powers to detain a criminal with a dangerous communicable disease right when she's about to be released. Arguably the federal government has the power to delay the release until the prisoner is no longer a threat to the public.

Mutatis mutandis, it also has the power to detain mentally ill sex offenders until they are no longer a threat to the public.

Nevermind that in the sex offender case they don't have to prove the offender is still a danger to society (and in fact there is no reliable way of proving such a thing.) Nor is the detention necessarily temporary. Nor is it apparently limited to ill prisoners -- it could be anyone still deemed to be a danger to society.

Nonetheless it sounded like Breyer and a few others are going to allow for this, while Scalia and Roberts sounded like they would object on general grounds of limiting the federal gov.

What's the moral? Maybe that judges with good horse sense is the best we can hope for.

Scalia will get a million other cases wrong, given a rigid judicial philosophy, while Breyer lacks common sense and so will also get a whole slew wrong.

Speaking of tossing aside rights

(#201807)

in the name of public good, England has just had it's first criminal trial without a jury in close to four centuries.

You know, much as I usually approve of the Chrétien/Blaire/Clinton centrist way of government, in some instances, it can sometimes give us a lack of both right-wing principles of limited government and left-wing principles of protecting the vulnerable.

Exactly

(#201835)
stinerman's picture

It is the moderate who I'm most afraid of, for he believes that the current state of affairs is generally as good as it gets and needs only minor tweaking. That and what you say.

At least when the right or left wings are running the show, you get the good parts of each. When it is split down the center, you get the bad parts of both.

I think it is up to the judge to say what the Constitution provided, even if what it provided is not the best answer, even if you think it should be amended. If that's what it says, that's what it says.
-- Antonin Scalia

Top-down?

(#201786)

Only in the sense that the change in racial attitudes was adopted earliest by the bourgeoisie. There is no mechanism in America for literal top-down, Cultural Revolution-style social transformation. It was just demography.

The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.

It was a pretty sudden change, though

(#201798)

And, much as I hate to use this phrase, it was driven primarily by what we might call coastal elites. The sort of folks who make opinion pretty much all got on the same sheet of music fairly quickly. So that aspect wasn't exactly official, but it was a pretty concerted effort.

And a big aspect of anti-racism was that it was done through the medium of schools. There's an enormous perception gap between folks who grew up with MLK in the pantheon of civic heroes we learn about in elementary school and those whose primary and secondary school was earlier. And I'd say it was through the mechanism of the schools that the notion of racism as dirty words came about.

Most cultural changes are sudden

(#201800)

A far more radical change in racial attitudes occurred during the Civil War, when the northern "elites" went from bland and hands-off disapproval of slavery to fire-breathing, self-righteous, are-we-not-all-men abolitionism in the space of just a few years.

In general I think it's a mistake to assign "opinion makers" much power at all. Everyone makes opinions; the salient characteristic of those to whom you refer is their ability to sell them. The change takes place in the market.

The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.

The schools, though, were such a big

(#201806)

Part of things, that it's hard to say that it was entirely (or even mostly) a change in attitude rather than an effort. Even though we may doubt how efficacious elementary schools are, the stuff we get in them is usually there for life.

I'm not sure I understand this.

(#201810)
Desidiosus's picture

I mean, yes, MLK was part of the pantheon, but that wasn't handed down from on high or anything. The folks in my state organized, got him a day, and told the textbook manufacturers what they expected to see in their textbooks.

Blatant racism is a minority opinion; most folks bought and buy the essential idea that people should have basic access to opportunity. The big change under King is that the decent people got pictures on the TV of how awful things were and decided to vote to have the police power of the state involved.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

This disturbs me, Andrew

(#201781)

Both the general disinfo. about sex offenders out there and specifically that you've swallowed it:

What *does* one do if we know with an almost absolute certainty that if released they will only molest again?

No one knows anything of the kind:

the existing research raises tough questions about the relative danger child molesters pose to society. Their likelihood of being convicted for a crime after release is much lower than average for all criminals ... and even for all sex offenders, at least in the short term, as measured by a Bureau of Justice Statistics study and others

We're talking about a measured recidivism rate of less than 15%, which is nothing approaching 'absolute certainty' of a repeat offense.

http://blogs.wsj.com/numbersguy/how-likely-are-sex-offenders-to-repeat-their-crimes-258/

How did you come to be a conduit for such disinfo.?

Maybe what you're missing is that there is no such thing as reliable mainstream media reporting on sex, drugs, or scary things like child kidnappings and crime generally?

But then I don't know how a smart guy like yourself wouldn't already know that and know to double-check this kind of thing.

Going back to anecdotes

(#201789)

Back when I was in grad school, one of my friends had a roommate in Grad House who worked in the rehabilitation of child molesters. The roommate's take on it was that the general consensus among those looking to cure pedophiles is that they're pretty much not curable (he also said that those involved in the treatment of pedophiles don't like to talk about the incurable nature of pedophilia).

It's not exactly a data point, but it tracks on stuff I've seen elsewhere (although I freely admit that I could be wrong on this one).

What do you mean 'cure pedophilia'?

(#201791)

The state's interest is in having citizens not commit crimes.

The measure of that is the recidivism rate, and as stated child molesters don't repeat even at average rates of criminals generally.

If you mean 'cured of finding children sexually stimulating', perhaps research does support that there's no cure.

But that's not a crime. Acting on it is.

I should, perhaps, look into this

(#201799)

business some more before making blanket statements.

If I were punished

(#201793)

for stuff I *wanted* to do but didn't, it would be several life sentences and maybe a death penalty or two every day.

We already know you were never properly socialized

(#201796)

You eat with your elbows.

Andrew is a smart guy,

(#201788)
Desidiosus's picture

but the CW has its claws in folks who find it valuable to appear "reasonable."

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

A few hundred million...

(#201761)
Desidiosus's picture

...is enough for one medium-sized state.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

Eck, meant to say

(#201763)

"billion."

Oh ok.

(#201766)
Desidiosus's picture

I agree, strongly.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

Ooops

(#201748)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Methinks there are a lot of DNC minions defecating masonry chunks about now.

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.--from Ulysses, by Alfred, Lord Tennyson

That's what you get...

(#201749)
Desidiosus's picture

...when you don't do your homework. I am always amazed and angered at the cynicism which pervades the ranks of the professional Dem class. The nice guys win elections.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

Seriously, The Irish Have Much Better Scandals than The US

(#201657)

Peter Robinson, is the N. Ireland, ruling party leader:

Mr Robinson is facing a claim that he knew his wife obtained £50,000 from two developers for her teenage lover but did not tell the proper authorities.
Iris Robinson, an MP and an NI Assembly member, is currently receiving "acute psychiatric treatment" following a BBC Spotlight documentary broadcast last week.

It reported that she obtained £50,000 from two property developers for her 19-year-old lover, Kirk McCambley, to launch a cafe.

She failed to register the money with the authorities in Stormont and Westminster, as required by the law.

It also reported that her husband, the first minister, knew about her financial dealings but did not tell the proper authorities.

It has been announced that she will step down as an assembly member and MP this week due to ill health. Sources have also confirmed that she will be leaving the DUP.

*********

Good stuff when 50 yr old women have 19 year old lovers.

No wonder Vin's Nephew was unsettled, Sigourney Weaver still unsettles me also.....lol

Traveller

Best scandal ever, Woman = 58, male = 19.

(#201660)

Her Name?

Best part of the movie

(#201680)

After Hoffman runs off with the bride, the uncomfortable silence after the excitement wore off, followed by the unspoken "what the eff did we just do?" Sorta reminded me of the scene of Dr. Evil and his gang after the laughter died down.


"I think BDog would make this place interesting." --catchy

That Really is a Great Scene, Great Writing...Timeless...NT

(#201667)

Traveller

She's 60, not 50.

(#201659)
Zelig's picture

••

Me: We! -- Ali

Better Than That, Zelig

(#201665)

Anne Bancroft was 36 when she played Mrs. Robinson. Dustin Hoffman was 30. Bancroft was apparently well aware of the odd nature of the pairing when it came to perception vs. reality.

“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco

Iris(h) Robinson at 60 looks as good as...

(#201668)
Zelig's picture

...Bancroft at 36. I blame sunlight, alcohol and tobacco.

Me: We! -- Ali

Maybe She Thought he was Gay...and as Her Christian Duty

(#201670)

...she had to bring the 19 yr old back to heterosexuality.

Heavens, but don't I love watching the antics of good Christians!

Iris Says:

What I did say was that homosexuality like all sin, is an abomination. That is what I said. My point, however, is that there are some people who, in their teenage years, are sexually confused, and that they could do with help from practitioners to assist them with talking therapies, to help them to realise exactly what they are — whether they are heterosexual or homosexual?

*********

http://www.endhomophobiainnorthernireland.com/irisnews.htm

Traveller

That's the best story ever

(#201734)
stinerman's picture

It sure beats all the other BS stories people use when they get caught.

"I was making sure he didn't become a fag." is top shelf. Bravo!

I think it is up to the judge to say what the Constitution provided, even if what it provided is not the best answer, even if you think it should be amended. If that's what it says, that's what it says.
-- Antonin Scalia

Chinese cadmium toys

(#201633)
Desidiosus's picture

Dear AP:

This is a good story, but if you want traction, you can't be reporting that cadmium is deadly when ingested. You gotta say that cadmium causes a euphoric feeling, gives relief from pain, increases appetite, and is non-habit-forming. That'll get the fascist soccer moms of the world rabidly aware.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

Cadmium is also a Chinese aphrodisiac

(#201642)

/snark

Seriously, do not ingest cadmium. . .

The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.

Same Sex Marriage trial starts today

(#201622)

LINK

The judge who will render a decision, Chief U.S. District Judge Vaughn R. Walker, has asked lawyers arguing for and against the ban to present the facts underlying much of the political rhetoric surrounding same-sex marriage. Among the questions Walker plans to entertain are whether sexual orientation can be changed, how legalizing gay marriage affects traditional marriages and the effect on children of being raised by two mothers or two fathers.

If the answers to those questions are going to determine the outcome of the trial then I think SSM will prevail. To date, I haven't heard a practical reason to prohibit SSM. My guess is I won't hear one during this trial either.

"And now you run in search of the Jedi. They are all dead, save one. And one broken Jedi cannot stop the darkness that is to come." -Darth Sion

"Practical" reasons?

(#201669)

Since when do opponents of same-sex marriage ever feel the need to rely on "practicality" as an argument?

Usually one form or another of "Fags are icky and God doesn't like them" is all the "reason" for prohibition of SSM that they need.

Though occasionally they DO trot out some trite sociological bafflegab to cover up the inherent bigotry. Occasionally.

Dog wars. Pit bull kills 3 yr. old

(#201607)

I seem to remember some of you have strong opinions about dogs. Well ... chew on this, like that innately violent pit bull did with his teeth:

Authorities say a 3-year-old boy has died after his family's pit bull attacked him at a home in Southern California.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/10/omar-martinez-pit-bull-at_n_418027.html

I've Posted This Link Before. . .

(#201735)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .but perhaps another reminder is in order.

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.--from Ulysses, by Alfred, Lord Tennyson

Someone was killed by a Dauchsund? -nt

(#201777)

Some family friends of my wife's family had a wiener dog

(#201842)

That for a brief moment, remembered its wolf heritage from back across ten thousand generations and attempted to take down a deer. Needless to say, said wiener dog was brain damaged for the rest of his life.

They've got spirit, those wiener dogs.

They were bred to hunt badgers

(#201848)

so I don't know if "spirit" is the right word, more like "raving suicidal maniacs".

I blame it all on the Internet

The spirit of a wiener dog

(#201845)

Catchy, I do believe

(#201849)

That you've made my evening.

Probably a child

(#201778)
brutusettu's picture

1 adult was the one probably maimed

A pomeranian killed a 6 week old back in 2001
http://www.igorilla.com/gorilla/animal/2001/pomeranian.html

A Pomeranian?

(#201847)

Once on late night cable I watched a fairly bad present day vampire movie but I very much enjoyed the vampire Pomeranians which were created as pets.

Quite amusing, actually.

The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.

It's in the link

(#201779)

Dauschund: Julia Beck, 87, of Fort Wayne, died 5/15/05, two weeks after attack by Dauschund & Lab at home

Given That. . .

(#201856)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .the deceased was an 87 year old woman, attributing this death to the wiener dog might be akin to the tendency of newspapers to list cardiac arrest deaths during an earthquake as "death by earthquake." A lot of things will kill you when you're 87 that healthy younger people will shrug off without problems.

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.--from Ulysses, by Alfred, Lord Tennyson

The "& Lab" explains it all. -nt

(#201820)

Eh; typical weiner dog.

(#201833)

Likely a first offender and acting as a yapping little lookout. Probably never gave a thought to the Felony Murder Rule.

Excess on occasion is exhilarating. It prevents moderation from acquiring the deadening effect of a habit. - W. Somerset Maugham

That must be one messed up dog.

(#201612)
Desidiosus's picture

Pit bulls are specifically bred out of aggression against people.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

But pit bulls have the highest incidence of attacking people

(#201614)

so the fact that they're bred out of this aggression means they must be really innately aggressive and their owners completely delusional.

Or that might not be the case. I really have no idea. I just think we should fight about dogs every so often.

Really?

(#201620)

I just think we should fight about dogs every so often.

I don't know why, but these days whenever I see a Pit Bull discussion start up, songs from West Side Story begin playing in my mind.

And I'm here to tell you that it's very distracting.

Excess on occasion is exhilarating. It prevents moderation from acquiring the deadening effect of a habit. - W. Somerset Maugham

So, you named your pit bull...

(#201629)
Zelig's picture

...Maria?

That's cool. Original also.

Me: We! -- Ali

Pits are often abused.

(#201616)
Desidiosus's picture

That's pretty much the story. I'm not a dog person, so I wouldn't start with a pit bull. But they're good dogs for people who want energetic friends and loyal companions.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

The problem is that if a sociopath wants a dog

(#201624)

He's going to get a pit bull. So even if the breed is usually not aggressive towards humans, the kinds of people who buy pit bulls--like someone who lived down the street from me with a pit named Punisher--are not going to be the sort of people who give a dog the training and socialization it needs.

If the dog-for-aspiring-badass were to change in the popular culture, we'd see less incidents of pit bulls mauling pets, children, etc.

I'd be interested to know your thoughts on the restriction of the types of firearms that are specifically sought out by gang members because they look badass due to their place in action movies, "gansta" iconography, and the like.

Hopefully that's enough to get people talking

(#201619)

I really don't know anything about this.

Yea!!

(#201603)

Fox signs Palin! Fox signs Palin!!

The network confirmed that Ms. Palin will appear on the network's programming on a regular basis as part of a multi-year deal... Ms. Palin will not have her own regular program, one person familiar with the deal said, though she will host an occasional series that will run on the network from time to time."

How about a series co-hosted with Glenn Beck? I can dream, can't I?

“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco

Harley did you catch this?

(#201824)

Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

Ask courageous questions. Do not be satisfied with superficial answers. Be open to wonder and at the same time subject all claims to knowledge, without exception, to intense skeptical scrutiny. Be aware of human fallibility. Cherish your species and your

Stumbled across this:

(#201736)
Desidiosus's picture

Interesting perspective on Palin.

Ignore the stuff on Hillary; see how clearly the conservative poster draws the lines. Opposition to abortion is based around a desire to subjugate women, especially sexually. Nobody can see this more clearly than someone who doesn't have to hide their desire that women be subjugated, as a woman with a religious duty to work in its favor.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

It is an interesting story

(#201739)
stinerman's picture

However, some lone nut with a network connection does not a movement make. His theory on abortion is that giving women jobs in WWII filled their heads with dreams of having their own career and life outside the kitchen -- and that's a problem.

He goes on to talk about some God fellow like he's Master of the Universe, at which point I stopped reading. Once someone reaches for the Invisible Pink Unicorn (peace be upon her holy hooves), I win the argument.

I think it is up to the judge to say what the Constitution provided, even if what it provided is not the best answer, even if you think it should be amended. If that's what it says, that's what it says.
-- Antonin Scalia

No, you don't.

(#201775)
Desidiosus's picture

Firstly, this is a woman writing this. Secondly, read the comments on the article. They're amazing and delightful.

Finally, and most importantly, there's no such thing as "winning" an argument, not really. There's just persuasion and people trying to be more right than they were previously. Or discarding that ideal and trying to be more comfortable. Or angry. Or whatever. Motivation is the essence of all discussion.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

Hee hee.

(#201752)

It seems clear the Almighty has a sense of humour. It's small wonder so few intelligent people believe in God, considering what the idiots have to say about him.

You're a good man, Blaise

(#201840)
stinerman's picture

I, for one, hope heaven exists so people like you can go to it. ;-)

I think it is up to the judge to say what the Constitution provided, even if what it provided is not the best answer, even if you think it should be amended. If that's what it says, that's what it says.
-- Antonin Scalia

One major problem

(#201771)
brutusettu's picture

...is when "said idiots" are so effing sure the Holy Spirit is a ditto head.

SI: Should I invade Iraq?
Holy Ghost: Yes

---

Me: *lost too much hope in some of mankind to even do a face palm*

Her.

(#201743)
Desidiosus's picture

Her.

Her.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

That makes it doubly interesting

(#201839)
stinerman's picture

 

I think it is up to the judge to say what the Constitution provided, even if what it provided is not the best answer, even if you think it should be amended. If that's what it says, that's what it says.
-- Antonin Scalia

Yes!

(#201860)
Desidiosus's picture

and cleaner.

Do read the comments. These women are very clear on their beliefs.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

Daily Kos reports Palin has already quit FOX

(#201645)

Word is that a disagreement over shortening the title of the segment to something coherent left Palin storming out of the Fox offices yelling about the "biased high 'flutin' big words of over educated people who don't have real world free market experience and values that are similar to those that real America has".

Palin did want to stress that, just like her quitting the Governorship a few months ago, this does not make her a quitter. Because quitting is "for those who don't ascribe to a higher calling of making sure that the next step in adopting principles that are free market and such thereto for furthering freedom and policies that Americans can truly believe in if we are to move forward".

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/1/11/823967/-breakingest:-Palin-resigns-as-FOX-contributor

The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.

it's getting difficult to tell when these stories are real

(#201649)

Poe's Law. -nt-

(#201650)
Desidiosus's picture

.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

Which reminds me

(#201773)
brutusettu's picture

Conservipedia is a joke
And
Ben Stein wasted a ton of time and credibility conflating cosmology, abiogenesis, etc as synonyms for evolution, among other gross errors.

He didn't waste a second,

(#201776)
Desidiosus's picture

except insofar as all conservatism is a waste.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

Has Levi Johnston weighed in?

(#201643)

I think he should probably be booked on as many shows as possible to comment on this development.

I really, really want Sarah Palin to go away

(#201627)

She is the epitome of culture war flag waving over substantive debate. I mean, I know there are people who like to say, "I affirm my status as a member of the intellectual elite by spitting on Palin!" but that's *exactly* the role she's meant to play.

Some men are merely starbursted by her

(#201639)

Such as Rick Lowry.

The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.

I'm not sure how pure that projection was,

(#201632)
Desidiosus's picture

but it was fairly impressive.

Indeed, you affirm your membership in the awesome elite by spitting on those who note Sarah Palin's existence.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

Come one, she's a shibboleth

(#201635)

And precludes debate. I don't see why anyone wants to give her that status that she's seeking.

Dude, it's cool.

(#201638)
Desidiosus's picture

You're better than me; I already conceded the point.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

Shouldn't we be debating why she has any status

(#201636)

and what that says about institutions like the GOP and Fox?

We know why FOX would sign her

(#201640)

Same reason Rupert Murdoch funded Avatar.

Money.

The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.

Sure

(#201646)

But what will her capacity be?

Energy expert, foreign policy commenter?

That might still say things over and above that they wish to make $.

Same as in the campaign

(#201648)

partisan attack dog and self nominated representative of "real Americans".

I blame it all on the Internet

Cat's outta the bag

(#201631)

Rabbit's outta the hat

The parrot can't go back in the suitcase.

It wasn't the left who nominated her to its top ticket or hired her for television broadcasting.

I'm not sure ignoring someone who is actively spitting on you is necessarily the best strategy.

"A multi-year deal"

(#201621)

Will she be more committed to her Fox contract than the Alaskan governorship?

"A career in television broadcasting"

(#201608)

It was her dream way back in the Miss Alaska beauty pageant:

Some investigative reporting --in a swimsuit -- on government death panels might be where we're headed.

Since we're looking at essentially...

(#201626)
Zelig's picture

...a full body scan of a teenage or young twenty-something Sarah Palin, I'd like to note that her breasts are sagging quite a bit. Childbirth must have exacerbated her condition. I'm wondering if they've since been cosmetically enhanced.

Me: We! -- Ali

oh come on

(#201651)

Heh.

(#201653)
Desidiosus's picture

I know a couple gals who ended up better off after their kids. Just sayin'.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

The Last Word?

(#201581)

Works for me.

Claiming that Harry Reid’s comments are the same, is like claiming that referring to Jews as “Hebrews” is the same as endorsing Nazism. Whereas a reputable portion of black people still use the term Negro without a hint of irony, no black person thinks the guy yelling “Segregation Forever!” would have cured us of “all these problems.”
Leaving aside political cynicism, this entire affair proves that the GOP is not simply still infected with the vestiges of white supremacy and racism, but is neither aware of the infection, nor understands the disease. Listening to Liz Cheney explain why Harry Reid’s comments were racist, was like listening to me give lessons on the finer points of the comma splice. This a party, rightly or wrongly, regarded by significant portions of the country as a haven for racists. They aren’t simply having a hard time re-branding, they don’t actually understand how and why they got the tag.

Read it all, here.

“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco

The party of synthetic outrage

(#201592)

will people ever get tired of it?

I blame it all on the Internet

It's more than GOP outrage

(#201615)

It's an entire press corps circling and salivating around a gossip book.

People don't have to watch.

(#201617)
Desidiosus's picture

They do anyways.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

will they keep watching?

(#201652)

This will be the decade of a la carte tv -- what happens when people stop paying $100/mo for channels they don't think they watch?

Fox Fox Fox Fox Fox Fox Fox

(#201654)
Desidiosus's picture

Fox Fox Fox Fox Fox Fox Fox Fox

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

It's not synthetic.

(#201593)
Desidiosus's picture

And it sure as heck beats thinking or empathy.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

Sure it is

(#201625)

compare the calm, reasonable demeanor of (most) conservatives in interviews with the dire and apocalyptic tone of their writing. If they actually believed what they were writing, they wouldn't seem so calm and reasonable. It's all an act put on for the rubes in exchange for a comfortable income.

I blame it all on the Internet

Oh, the leadership's lying.

(#201630)
Desidiosus's picture

But the rank-and-file . . . you've seen the videos. They believe.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

Another week,

(#201568)

another threat by the government to take over businesses, this time after he devalued his country's currency by 50%.


"I think BDog would make this place interesting." --catchy

They voted for him

(#201732)
stinerman's picture

I'm not shedding any tears.

I think it is up to the judge to say what the Constitution provided, even if what it provided is not the best answer, even if you think it should be amended. If that's what it says, that's what it says.
-- Antonin Scalia

Nothing Like Aversion Therapy. . .

(#201747)
M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .to get a nation to lose its taste for looters with a yen for cults of personality.

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.--from Ulysses, by Alfred, Lord Tennyson

Worked on us. -nt-

(#201762)
Desidiosus's picture

.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

Have you seen the alternatives?

(#201744)
Desidiosus's picture

Sheesh.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

The sad thing about Chavez...

(#201575)
Desidiosus's picture

...is that he has no sense of what his legacy will be. He's gone from rough but much-needed reformer to just another flailing strongman. There could have been something good there.

I truly enjoyed Juan Carlos's smackdown, though that may be colored by my deep admiration for the King of Spain. How many men destroy a Fascist regime single-handedly?

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

For hyper-partisan Reid, what goes around comes around

(#201551)

Patterico's final sentence:

Reid is simply getting a taste of the medicine he has so eagerly dished out to others.

No sympathy for Senator Spleen.


"I think BDog would make this place interesting." --catchy

I share your lack of sympathy for Senator Ried:

(#201553)

but I've never understood the "hyperpartisan" tag. Does that mean he says mean things to Republicans? Or does it mean that he doesn't automatically bend over, grab his knees and turn his butt up when Mitch McConnell or Jim DeMint enter the room?

Really, BD.....

(#201566)

Sen. Reid is the Senate Majority Leader for his party: shouldn't this position require just a bit of "partisanship" in order that he do the job right?

Or are you just reflexively repeating the post-Gingrich-era meme in which "bipartisanship" is, de facto, defined as "doing whatever Republicans want" - and the failure of Democrats in Congress to accede to said demands is to be decried as "hyper-partisan"?

A bit?

(#201570)

Heh. The Nevada voters will soon decide if his schtick served his career well. Reid doesn't have to "do whatever Republicans want". His task--and it shouldn't be that hard--is to peel off a GOP centrist or two, and there is no shortage of them in the U.S. Senate. That he is unable to peel a one speaks volumes about Spleen's "leadership". I didn't think I would ever say this, but having seen the boobs and *sswipes who have succeeded him, I miss Bob Dole.


"I think BDog would make this place interesting." --catchy

No shortage of GOP centrists?

(#201780)

There were only two who said they were willing to support HCR in any form, and even those two didn't mean it.

The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.

Funny you bring that up

(#201731)
stinerman's picture

If I'm a liberal Democrat, I'm rooting for Reid to lose. His term as the minority and then the majority leader has been very poor in terms of getting things done.

No one in their right mind thinks the Democrats are going to pick up any seats in 2010. Trade Reid for a Republican seat and we might be talking about the much more liberal Dick Durbin as Majority Leader.

I think it is up to the judge to say what the Constitution provided, even if what it provided is not the best answer, even if you think it should be amended. If that's what it says, that's what it says.
-- Antonin Scalia

I dunno, BD:

(#201664)

The GOP has enforced pretty good party discipline: I don't think that Reid could have gotten a GOP vote if he had offered a female Senate page to David Vitter dressed in nothing but a diaper.

A real "partisan" HCR bill, IMHO, would have had a very strong public option and would have caused insurance executives to swamp every stroke center between New York and L.A.

I still don't know about that

(#201837)
stinerman's picture

Nelson, Lieberman, and all the rest of the "centrists" have to flex their "centrist" muscles by taking whatever the liberals come up with and then watering it down a little bit. It matters not what watering down the bill accomplishes (it might cause the bill to cover less people and increase the deficit), it simply matters that "centrists" water down the bill. If the conservatives wanted Pepsi for a beverage and the liberals wanted orange juice, the centrists would demand we mix the two together.

These jackalopes care about themselves and no one else. And they know they have all the power in the world to get every last pet project funded to the moon and back.

I think it is up to the judge to say what the Constitution provided, even if what it provided is not the best answer, even if you think it should be amended. If that's what it says, that's what it says.
-- Antonin Scalia

His task is to peel off a centrist or two.

(#201576)
Desidiosus's picture

Somehow I feel that if he did, his task would be to peel off two or three.

Anyways, nice to know who it is that all this posturing is for.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

Polarizing

(#201564)

Not a day goes by without Reid spleening about Republicans. Like with a frequent commenter on this site, it's wearisome, contentless and unhelpful.


"I think BDog would make this place interesting." --catchy

To be fair

(#201729)
stinerman's picture

He is the majority leader. That's kinda his job description.

I think it is up to the judge to say what the Constitution provided, even if what it provided is not the best answer, even if you think it should be amended. If that's what it says, that's what it says.
-- Antonin Scalia

Perhaps a graph will help show us all how...

(#201569)

...hyperpartisan Reid is?

That Iraqi death graph you posted a thousand times never got wearisome, contentless or unhelpful.

"And now you run in search of the Jedi. They are all dead, save one. And one broken Jedi cannot stop the darkness that is to come." -Darth Sion

Hyperbole much?

(#201571)

"So hopefully there is a 527 out there right now willing to ruin John McCain's and/or his family's reputation if it needs to be done."

--Blue Neponset


"I think BDog would make this place interesting." --catchy

Heh

(#201556)

It's the usual conservative kink. There's nothing they hate more than political opponents who behave like they do. It's just not fair, and takes away an expected advantage, ie the other side will never stoop as low as we will, hence, we win!

As for the Reid kerfuffle, this is a subset of that. There's no better way to palliate your own political party's history of racism than to accuse someone else of same.

“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco

What the founders might really think about the filibuster

(#201542)

Tom Geoghegan in a NYT Op-Ed today:

In Federalist No. 75, Hamilton denounced the use of supermajority rule in these prophetic words: “The history of every political establishment in which this principle has prevailed is a history of impotence, perplexity and disorder.”

"I don't want us to descend into a nation of bloggers." - Steve Jobs

Boo hoo

(#201554)

Tom is frustrated because he can't get the liberal agenda he wants. Now he knows what life was like when the GOP had the presidency and both houses. Jay Cost has a smarter analysis.


"I think BDog would make this place interesting." --catchy

There's been political polarization before

(#201691)

It seems political polarization gets worse around the turns of the century... 19th, 20th, and now the 21st. To say that we require Congressional paralysis to deal with it betrays a bias for inaction.

Conservatives who want to achieve something significant that isn't budgetary -- school vouchers or whatever -- are never going to be able to do it with the filibuster in place. Ezra Klein has suggested post-dating the rule change for 6 or 8 years so that we don't know who will be in power when it takes effect.

"I don't want us to descend into a nation of bloggers." - Steve Jobs

I guess I can make my point sharper

(#201692)

You can be of the center (I feel I am for the most part) and still think there are big, politically difficult things that need to be done He's not really arguing for the center, he's arguing for inaction. Which is fine, but it is what it is.

"I don't want us to descend into a nation of bloggers." - Steve Jobs

It's a 50-50 nation,

(#201704)

more or less, which means that, if Democrats want to get something done, they're going to have to peel off one or more liberal Republicans, which means that they'll have to make some compromises. Sounds to me like the political process in action. If Reid can't even get a Dukakis or a Collins on board, there's a problem with what Reid's selling.


"I think BDog would make this place interesting." --catchy

That'd make sense,

(#201709)
Desidiosus's picture

if one needed 50 Senators to pass anything, which of course one doesn't.

Also, the Republicans in the Senate represent about 38% of the American population, splitting states which have split delegations halvesies. So apparently, it's not a 50/50 nation, it's a 60/40 nation.

I would like everyone here to think about how crazy the Republican candidate would have to be to only get 40% of the vote. That is exactly the person BD says we should be chasing. The Republican candidate crazy enough to get 42% of the vote? He* doesn't exist in the Senate. The Republican candidate so crazy that he gets only 39% of the vote? That's the second vote.

*Of course he.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

The problem with that

(#201706)

Is that the minority has more to gain from provoking failure than from making a compromise.

This idea that you need 60 votes to pass anything in the Senate is not part of our history. It is an experiment that has come to be at a particularly unfortunate time when we are going to have to make some tough political choices.

"I don't want us to descend into a nation of bloggers." - Steve Jobs

Shoe on other foot

(#201753)

This was the same situation when the GOP had the majority, and bupkis was heard from you liberals about removing the filibuster. The Senate is supposed to be more deliberative and contemplative by design, which also means that there is supposed to be more reaching across the aisle. This is Reid's fault that it hasn't, as it was Frist's when he was in charge.


"I think BDog would make this place interesting." --catchy

Unprecedented

(#201754)

Filibusters have been a feature of the Senate forever, but what the GOP has done really is unprecedented.

Really.

All the more reason for compromise instead of shutting out

(#201794)

Such is life in 21st century politics.


"I think BDog would make this place interesting." --catchy

The Majority Should Compromise More

(#201795)

when the minority abuses the system?

The unprecedented number of GOP filbusters is a data point in favor of reforming the filibuster rules, or voiding them altogether via maneuvers such as the budget reconciliation process.

But, who are we kidding. The filibuster will live on because it makes each individual majority senator more powerful. With the GOP calling for so many cloture votes, every Dem will get a chance to be the 60th vote.

Like I said,

(#201804)

the shoe is on the other foot. One man's "abuse" is another man's principled opposition. I didn't like it when Democrats obstructed by using cloture when Bush was in office, and I don't like it that Republicans are doing the same with Obama in office. But at the same time, I didn't oppose the filibuster then, because it serves a purpose, and same principle should apply today. If Democrats can't even get one person from the other party on board, then to me, the problem lies with the Democratic leadership and its shortcomings. A good number of these GOPers aren't ideological purists. Far from it.


"I think BDog would make this place interesting." --catchy

So to be sure

(#201831)
stinerman's picture

You would not have a problem if very literally every bill that passed the Senate needed to have the support of 3/5ths of the body as a matter of course. I want to be sure I'm reading you correctly.

Why 3/5ths though? Why not 2/3rds or 4/5ths? Why shouldn't everything be done by unanimous consent?

I think it is up to the judge to say what the Constitution provided, even if what it provided is not the best answer, even if you think it should be amended. If that's what it says, that's what it says.
-- Antonin Scalia

You Keep Saying That

(#201808)

And I keep saying that the number of filibusters deployed since the GOP became the minority blow the tit for tat argument out of the water.

Doesn't matter

(#201813)

A filibuster is only one of many ways to obstruct legislation in the Senate, but as Hilzoy noted four years ago, those other traditonal means to block the majority have been cast aside. With fewer other options, filibusters are used more. If you want to get something done, you're better off engaging rather than the end-around that Obama-Emanuel tried to pass off.


"I think BDog would make this place interesting." --catchy

Hilzoy Identifies

(#201887)

four alternatives to the filibuster for Judicial Nominees: Blue Slips (home state Senator opinion on Judicial nominees), Secret Holds, Judiciary Committee Rule Four (which requires that votes to move a nominee forward must have at least 10 Ayes, one of which cast by the majority), and Senatorial Courtesy.

1) Are you suggesting that the unprecedented number of GOP filibusters are filibusters of Obama's judicial nominees -- and that those filibusters are substitutes for other, lost, forms of obstruction? I'd like to see the numbers.

2) Of the four alternatives, Blue Slips (as methods of obstruction) and Judiciary Committee Rule Four were scotched by the GOP in 2003. Since tit-for-tat is the name of the game, why shouldn't the filibuster be scotched or reformed today by the Dems?

3) Secret Holds, by the way, live on.

Since there is zero chance...

(#201817)
Desidiosus's picture

...you would characterize any legislation being passed by a 60-vote majority of Republican senators over the objections of a Democratic minority as an "end around," I am delighted to give this comment exactly the attention it deserves.

In addition, is it your contention that it is possible that a GOP Senator who wanted to keep his or her job would find it valuable to go along with Obama's health care reform plans? If so, I would be interested in learning where your timeline diverged from mine.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

Problem is, the GOP hasn't learned anything

(#201815)

from their time in the minority. They're the Party of NO, and they have no alternatives to anything under proposal. The Democrats, curiously, present the biggest obstacles to progress: the GOP just makes more noise. See, the Democrats can't have it both ways with health care reform: they won't stop taking Big Healthco's money and therefore have good reason to water down the soup even more.

If the GOP tries to filibuster health care in this watered-down form, they'll step on a land mine and blow themselves to Kingdom Come. It's a big old nothing: even if it passes in its current form, it will still leave millions uninsured. The GOP fears the creation of another unassailable and highly popular government program: they've been shamed into admitting Medicare and Social Security can't be attacked. The country will be better off for health care reform, everyone knows it, especially the GOP. One by one, their reasons for existence are being picked off. There's still a place for the Conservative in this debate, but less and less for the GOP.

Heh.

(#201818)
Desidiosus's picture

I was musing on this earlier. Why, in the midst of such a series of major policy issues in our country, is the conservative movement obsessed with birth certificates and blocking health care reform?

My theory goes as follows: the conservative evolution of thought is now essentially complete. There is no conservative position on any issue which is not either incomprehensible or malign. Conservatism has nowhere to go, having achieved its perfect form. We have reached the end of history.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

Des' Symphony for Single Cymbal.

(#201822)

Being a social conservative is always a losing proposition in the long run. The world changes, these guys don't. Eventually they'll die, but not before repudiating most of their horrible old positions.

As the Democrats changed over time, especially in the era of LBJ, they repudiated their Old Guard Dixiecrats. It cost the Dems dearly, and not only in the South. The GOP made some headway, but couldn't stop the march of progress. Eventually the country got sick of the GOP and swept them aside.

The Social Conservatives argue from axioms nobody believes anymore. Gays, guns, God, 'bortion, Mexicans and That Kenyan, the more irrelevant they become the shriller their rhetoric. They're just about to run out of steam for their whistle, I can already hear it dying off, the pitch lowering, guttering out. There will always be the Sarah Palin crowd: Father Coughlin filled Yankee Stadium with his racists, too. Nobody even remembers him, hardly.

The Fiscal Conservatives in the GOP are horribly disgraced after their majority a few years back. They weren't true to their ideals and now their rhetoric is a bit hollow, now that the government is the Stimulator of Last Resort. The Dems, especially Barney Frank on the Banking Committee are no less disgraceful, but the two strongest points for the GOP have been sawn off: foreign policy and fiscal conservatism.

What's left for the GOP? Two words:

Sarah Palin.

I can't agree.

(#201825)
Desidiosus's picture

I can't agree that "nobody" believes these things; we've got an entirely new party springing up because the GOP can't bring itself to pay them enough fealty. I hope you're right about Palin's Coughlin turn. I don't know, honestly. The more I read about that era, the more I understand how lucky we were to have FDR.

As for Fiscal Conservatism, that was always a smokescreen, like States' Rights. Fiscal conservatism was done away with for good in 1937.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

Beat me to it

(#201755)

A link & a quote to/from the original story. LINK

Still, formal filibuster actions—meaning actual cloture motions to shut off debate—remained relatively rare. Often, Senate leaders would either find ways to accommodate objections or quietly shelve bills or nominations that would have trouble getting to 60. In the 1970s, the average number of cloture motions filed in a given month was less than two; it moved to around three a month in the 1990s. This Congress, we are on track for two or more a week. The number of cloture motions filed in 1993, the first year of the Clinton presidency, was 20. It was 21 in 1995, the first year of the newly Republican Senate. As of the end of the first session of the 110th Congress, there were 60 cloture motions, nearing an all-time record.

"And now you run in search of the Jedi. They are all dead, save one. And one broken Jedi cannot stop the darkness that is to come." -Darth Sion

You don't need 60 votes to pass in the Senate.

(#201713)
Desidiosus's picture

You need 60 Democratic votes to pass something in the Senate. 50 Republican votes will get anything you want done just fine.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

Absolutely

(#201716)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Why, D.C. Circuit Judge Miguel Estrada was just reminding me of that the other day.

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.--from Ulysses, by Alfred, Lord Tennyson

A fine point.

(#201733)
Desidiosus's picture

You need 60 Democratic votes to get anything passed 100% of the time. You need 50 Republican votes to get 99% of what you'd like to get passed passed, and 60 to do the last 1%.

I stand utterly corrected.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

You know, I think you might be right

(#201737)
stinerman's picture

I did a very simple search* of all the senate bills in 2009 that were passed.

There wasn't a single bill that was passed with less than 60 votes. I expected there to be a few bills that passed with less than 60, but there wasn't a one.

*I went here and did a search down the page for the word "passed" and then looked at the roll call.

I think it is up to the judge to say what the Constitution provided, even if what it provided is not the best answer, even if you think it should be amended. If that's what it says, that's what it says.
-- Antonin Scalia

This is part of why Reid has to go.

(#201745)
Desidiosus's picture

Look, I am willing to work with the filibuster. If there are a couple things that just have to be opposed, even if you've only got 40 people to do it, I'm willing to have a conversation. But if it's every bill, then it has to go.

The Senate is particularly poorly structured for our current parliamentary party system. Campaign finance reform would help with that, by making fundraising less national.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

I agree

(#201829)
stinerman's picture

I mentioned this to our friend Bird Dog. Republicans are getting giddy over the possibility of taking out Reid. I'd love to lose Reid, frankly. I'm sure most progressives would as well. I don't think you can do much worse than Reid in terms of running the Senate.

Partisans? Probably not. They're only worried about making sure their team has as many seats as possible without regard to what actually gets passed.

I think it is up to the judge to say what the Constitution provided, even if what it provided is not the best answer, even if you think it should be amended. If that's what it says, that's what it says.
-- Antonin Scalia

Amazing how these articles only seem to come out

(#201544)

when a certain side has a problem with it...

It is better to get what you want than it is to be right. -me

Hunh.

(#201578)
Desidiosus's picture

I'm trying to think of a statement on this issue that's more false.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

"Nuclear option."

(#201565)

Just bumping catchy's point into subject position.

"a certain side"

(#201560)

I seem to remember some talk about the ... what was it ... oh yes, the 'nuclear option' from a certain side.

Was that the certain side you were referring to?

Shocking, to be sure. - nt

(#201559)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

.

-“It is unwise for the government to tell people how they can spend their money” - Barney Frank, Chairman House Financial Services Committee, on on-line gambling, 2009

Quick question. Is chiropractic a reasonable profession?

(#201541)

I've been asked to advise on a career, but have no personal experience. Wikipedia is dismissive, I see.

Depends on who it is

(#201728)
stinerman's picture

If you get those that are "straights", they believe all kinds of BS like chiropractic cures cancer. Obvious BS.

If you get a "mixer", like my chiropractor, you're in business. They believe that having a misaligned back might cause back pain.

I think it is up to the judge to say what the Constitution provided, even if what it provided is not the best answer, even if you think it should be amended. If that's what it says, that's what it says.
-- Antonin Scalia

I've noticed that it also varies by country

(#201823)

Canadian chiropractors tend to be non-quacks: they work with soft tissue as well as manipulating and usually believe in germ theory of disease.

American chiropractors I've encountered, however, have generally been quacks of the worst sort.

It is usually easy to find out which is which

(#201828)
stinerman's picture

My guy, point blank, said that he was only a supplement to my general practitioner. He doesn't cure cancer. He doesn't restore hair loss. He attempts to fix back pain.

My girlfriend, who had severe health problems unrelated to her back, reported that her chiropractor claimed all could be fixed with organic vegetables and a special detox regimen. She stopped going that day. Once a specialist saw her, she was scheduled for surgery to alleviate her condition.

Luckily most of the straights aren't covered by insurance. They're nothing more than con-men, or occasionally deluded into believing their own BS.

I think it is up to the judge to say what the Constitution provided, even if what it provided is not the best answer, even if you think it should be amended. If that's what it says, that's what it says.
-- Antonin Scalia

I've worked with a couple good ones,

(#201826)
Desidiosus's picture

but overall, yeah. I think part of it is just being Part Of The System. Once you're required to regularly defend your technical approach, it gets better.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.

 

No.

(#201726)

No.

Over here on E Street, we're proud to support Obama for President. - Bruce Springsteen

No.

(#201725)

So true I said it twice! They are quacks.

Over here on E Street, we're proud to support Obama for President. - Bruce Springsteen

They make good money 'round these parts.

(#201573)

AFAIK there are several levels of kookdom but all are essentially kooks. All in all, I wouldn't say no. There are worse things to be by far. One needs to be able to deal with manhandling person after ailing person while listening to their gripes and complaints though. Not to be underestimated as an effect on ones personal psycic well-being..

Dr. Detroit

(#201567)

It's a crock, but so is most of medicine.

(#201543)

All medicine makes promises it can't deliver.

Maybe but as a RN I can tell you a million things that are a

(#201574)

waste in healthcare. I can also tell you that I had a rib out of place and went to a chiropractic doctor. He fixed the issue and he makes a pretty good living. The good ones live and die on repeat business. Now maybe because it was a friend of a friend he fixed me in one visit vs four. Still after my deductible he made like four bucks from my insurance. So for twenty five bucks I felt better and have had little trouble since. The first time it happened years ago my track coach who was in school to become a DO ... an MD that believes in manipulations she fixed me in about five seconds... She told me I had three ribs really out of place and put them back in place... Stomach was about as sore as you can imagine the next day because of the stomach muscles being stretched...

So for some people it works for other people it does not and it matters who you see and what the real problem is... You can say the same thing about back surgery. Very few IMHO come out that well after surgery... Lets not even get in the Brain trauma which is my new units bread and butter.... But when the choice is death or shivo like state some people can be helped to the degree possible.....

By the way if you are of a certain age get a living will so that we don't have to bring you back with brain damage at 80+ years.... I mean at least do some research and look at outcomes.. DNR is not always bad if your quality of life is not going to be good.... (I say this after watching a sick 82 year get coded for 8 mins they brought the pt. back then the family had a come to Jesus moment... The removed care and the pt. passed.... Still the code in the ICU was pretty amazing to watch....

Ask courageous questions. Do not be satisfied with superficial answers. Be open to wonder and at the same time subject all claims to knowledge, without exception, to intense skeptical scrutiny. Be aware of human fallibility. Cherish your species and your

+1 on the Living Will.

(#201579)
Desidiosus's picture

Please and thank you.

"A milk cow with 310 million tits"  -- Alan Simpson, Barack Obama's co-chair on deficit reduction, describing Social Security.