Debate Thread
Well, we are finally here. The third and final debate. As I write this, CNN has just moved Virginia to the Obama column, now giving Obama 277 electoral votes if the election was held today. Stunning development given that Virginia hasn't voted for a Democrat since 1964.
As for the debate tonight, I am hoping that McCain walks into the Obama trap and brings up Ayers. With the Dow dropping 733 points today (the NASDAQ was down 8.5%), I cannot imagine anything that would turn an independent or undecided voter off more than McCain bringing up an association Obama had with a hippy radical from the Vietnam war era. One nugget from the recent NY Times/CBS poll was that the negative attacks on Obama coupled with the disaster that is Sarah Palin, has not only given Obama his healthy lead in the polls, but has driven McCain's unfavorable ratings to an all-time high. So is McCain, led by his cojones foolish enough to step into the trap Obama h-s laid or is he going to come up with some other gimmick to try to get the game changer he desperately needs?
Here is an interesting map from Turd Blossom himself which shows just how dire McCain's prospects are:
Speaking of the good Governor, here is an example from today which explains why so many conservatives are turning away from the McCain-Palin ticket:
"It seems like, and in our last rally too, and in other parts around this great Northwest, here in New Hampshire, ya just get it."
New Hampshire in the Northwest? One breath away from the Oval Office?
--
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. -Mark Twain
--
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. -Mark Twain
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References
are morons. Watching and reading most of their reactions, it is clear that:
- they don't know what it means to win a political debate
- they don't know how the average person scores a political debate
- they did not know what McCain and Obama, specifically, needed to do in this particular debate.
The post-debate chatter on CNN was surreal -- having just watched Michael Phelps set a world's record against a dogpaddler who had to be rescued by the lifeguards, they seemed genuinely conflicted over who to pin the medal on. Even the Democratic ones acted nervous and irresolute. "Well, yeah, I mean, he crossed the finish line first, but is that really what he needed to do?" Um, yes, Paul Begala, it was.
One factor is certainly the perennial underestimation of Barack Obama. The greatest natural politician since John Kennedy, at least, he never seems to receive credit for it. (Who needs credit when you have all the votes and all the cash?)
When I say Obama is terrifying, I mean it literally: this is a man who has the capacity to reshape the political landscape of America in ways I cannot foresee. What are his convictions? His principles? What has he fought and bled for? I don't know. I hope for the best but fear the worst.
This is no longer an interesting election, but it will be an interesting four years.
--The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.
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)Full stop
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)(derstandard.at) is using the following image on their online frontpage:
Nasty.
--Dein Grundsatz war, z'erst überleg'n, / a Meinung hab'n, dahinterstehn / Niemals Gewalt, alles bereden / Aber auch ka Angst vor irgendwem -- STS
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)I thought that was photoshopped. It's not. What on Earth was McCain doing there?
--The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.
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| parent )... then the other, and then made that face to make fun of his indecision. My dad does that sort of thing; I find it kind of endearing. But it makes him look foolish when he's standing next to someone with Obama's mien; Barry might have a slower resting pulse rate than Bjorn Borg, ferchrissakes.
--Bene vixit, bene qui latuit
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| parent )Yah, that's too bad. He was actually being friendly and human there.
On the other hand this -
- *is* a fair representation of his strategy last night.
--Steven Palmer Peterson
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| parent )ain't registered to vote.
Now isn't that special!
JFTR -- Might not be fully confirmed yet.
--The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.
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)It wasn't McC's only card, but Joe Plumber also didn't seem to work out.
By my read, the public is slow to change its conception of party identities. If an election is about foreign policy the Rs have an advantage; if it's about 'Joe Plumber' the Ds have an advantage.
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)McCain knew on some level he was saying goodbye b/c he hadn't changed the dynamic for the 10s of million of people who will never be an audience for him again. He wasn't entirely comfortable w. this and as a result stuttered, blinked + repeated the same memorized phrase 'stewards of your tax dollars'.
OTOH, Obama glowed, said hello to the audience, and made some appeals for goodwill as the next pres.
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)The snap polls are completely destroying the punditocracy's ability to lie convincingly about the debate.
--It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.
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)before / after
Less favorable numbers up
Favorable numbers down
Obama?
Favorables up
--Unfavorables down
The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.
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)For the first few rounds, he sure looked tough. Obama did a lot of dancing backward, but there was really no out-shouting McCain once he was in full throat.
Obama, true to form, let him get red in the face, let him drop his guard. McCain had expected Obama to try to win every round: this was not so. Obama waited for McCain to lunge then just about put his fist all the way through McCain's head with the Ayers comeback. It was a devious strategy, to play to McCain's evil temper. After Obama had goaded him into opening up and taking that haymaker, McCain looked like he'd swallowed a toad.
Thereafter, McCain just couldn't stay on his feet. The rest of the debate was a flurry of blows, but after the halfway point, Obama was clearly beating McCain like a bald-headed stepchild.
No knockout, no definitive win. McCain knew this was his last national forum and put in as good a performance as he could. When the bell rang, McCain was still standing, but it was as if we were looking at a seriously brain injured boxer, still on his feet but bleeding inside his skull.
McCain had to take this one, and needed a KO. He didn't even get a TKO. This was McCain's strongest performance, but it was the burst strength of adrenaline, not the long-distance aerobic strength required to get the KO he needed. It was at best a draw, at worst his Waterloo. As Napoleon won the day against Wellington, but was unprepared for a fresh assault from Blucher, McCain just couldn't pull it out in the last few rounds.
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)McCain started out angry and contemptuous, progressed to petulant and snide, and by the final half hour was somewhere very near to panic.
Obama was calm, reasonable, empathetic, reassuring, and forceful where needed -- his few jabs all landed squarely on McCain's chin, while McCain flailed, even clipping the ref a time or two.
By the halfway mark, I was feeling genuinely sorry for the man. By the end, he was simply irrelevant -- some old guy who happened to be sitting next to the President.
--The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.
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| parent )CBS. Obama 53 to 22.
CNN. Obama 58 to 31.
This amazes me. I thought it was much closer. This proves, I think, that folks have pretty much made up their minds.
McCain is done.
--Full stop
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)those pollsters haven't subbed the work out to ACORN?
The results suggest they have.
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| parent )IMHO
--The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.
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| parent )Shorter 3rd debate: a tie. IOW, a win for Obama. Agree with my fellow Forvmites who think McCain needed to really slam Obama and make a big splash to get back in the game. And he didn't, IMO. Ergo, back to Square One.
Next stage, I think: mudslinging a go-go in a desperate attempt to make up the polling gap.
Best guess: won't work. But WILL leave a big pool of political "toxic waste" for the next Administration to deal with.
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)how many times Hillary said "President Obama" in that little interview?
--Steven Palmer Peterson
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)Went for Obama. Much to Brit Hume's disappointment.
--Full stop
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)Obama wins 58-31
Obama's favorables rise, McCain's drop.
electoralvote.com has the current EV as Obama 357-181. Four years ago it was Bush 284-228.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )McCain got off the line of the debate, re Obama running against Bush. But he also offered the only clip that will end up in campaign attack ads -- the absolutely beneath stupid scorn about the health of women when it comes to abortion. Consigning that to the realm of dishonest tactic may appease the Wingtards in the party, but it's straight up death with independent women voters.
This may sink him.
--Full stop
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)You're right -- those air quotes will become famous, well, famous for three weeks.
--Steven Palmer Peterson
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| parent )he's sunk already. This was just the icing on the cake. It's the equivalent of pulling an anvil off a dock when you're drowning then holding on to it as tightly as you can.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )I think the visuals will also hurt him. McCain's mad dude blinking scary face is not what the public is looking for. On the other hand, that same public elected Bush twice. So I'll never take anything for granted in this regard.
--Full stop
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| parent )nt
--Steven Palmer Peterson
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| parent )Hun?!? Obama is the ONLY smart person on that stage...McCain looks like he's half dead.
Why would you vote against the smart guy?
Isn't smart good?
All you people here are worrying me.
Look to the better angels of your nature, do what you know is right, Vote for Obama.
Seriously!
Trust me on this...
******
Might as well post it here too.
But my real work is with the younger idiots...lol
Traveller
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)In a nutshell, because I don't trust him. I don't think he is One Of Me, in the current odd parlance. Not, of course, that I think McCain is either.
I could be wrong. I hope I am wrong. I still can't vote for Barack Obama.
--The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.
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| parent )based on a centegenarian life expectancy.
--Barack Obama, elected during the banking mess, has filled his administration with Bear's and Lehman's conquerors, bestowing his papal blessing on a new era of robbery. Matt Taibi
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| parent )...I do need get myself out for some food...but I did have some nice exchanges:
Trav: Who's the N****, you GDamned N****
Other Person: I'll never vote of that Black Bas****
Trav: That's what makes you the Dumbest N**** I've ever seen.
OP: Who the F**** do you think you are?
Trav: I'm the guy telling you to F*** off and Die, that's all you're good for you piece of Sh**...
******
and on and on and on.
Ah yes, now for some more sedate pastimes...lol
Be Good, Traveller
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| parent )-
--Barack Obama, elected during the banking mess, has filled his administration with Bear's and Lehman's conquerors, bestowing his papal blessing on a new era of robbery. Matt Taibi
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| parent )but I suspect that might be a posting rules violation.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )...at your discretion.
I would, but I can't now.
chao
Traveller
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| parent )I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )....that I was being sent to the corner for a week or so.
Well, you takes your hits.....lol...like a man. If it were my turn, I'd sit down with good grace, I hope.
Thanks for the clarification.
Nice to see BD around again.
Traveller
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| parent )No reason to vote for a Progressive, no matter what his supposed qualities. And I do mean "supposed".
---“It is unwise for the government to tell people how they can spend their money” - Barney Frank, Chairman House Financial Services Committee, on on-line gambling, 2009
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| parent )More say Obama won . . .
--The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.
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)Exactly right, IMHO.
--The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.
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)I thought McCain came off like a rambling crackpot, with a few good moments and a lot of tired tax cut catechism.
Obama won hands down, IMO. But I was wrong in the first two debates.
--"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
–Voltaire
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)he did better in closing, but still lost on points and style and didn't do anything to change the overall dynamic. Obama made several overtures to Republicans as well as Independents, McCain was still working to lock down his base. I just don't see McCain recovering, let alone gaining after this debate.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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)McCain scorns the notion that women's health should be part of the abortion debate. Wow. Good move.
--Full stop
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)He even made a face and did a little finger 'scare quote' wiggle while he said it. What an *ss.
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| parent )Except the A-4 Skyhawk isn't a fighter plane
Update: Sorry Harley, wrong place for this comment.
Multi-tasking got the better of me.
--The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.
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| parent )though that wasn't its primary mission.
--Barack Obama, elected during the banking mess, has filled his administration with Bear's and Lehman's conquerors, bestowing his papal blessing on a new era of robbery. Matt Taibi
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| parent )The A means Attack, B means Bomber, F means Fighter. Then there's the F/A-18.
Some damn clever folks in the military.
--"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias
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| parent )From Wikipedia:
Barack Obama, elected during the banking mess, has filled his administration with Bear's and Lehman's conquerors, bestowing his papal blessing on a new era of robbery. Matt Taibi
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| parent )daytime fighter protection from what?
The assignment of A-4 Skyhawks as 'fighters' to protect US ASW aircraft is a pretty good indication of the seriousness of the threat. The Skyhawk was equipped with air to air missiles for self defense. So in a pinch they could provide 'fighter' protection to aircraft not so armed and engaged in activities where the threat of intervention by enemy fighters was judged to be low to non-existent.
ASW=Anti Submarine Warfare, in the Vietnam conflict that mostly meant search and rescue since the Vietnam Peoples Navy didn't have any submarines to hunt.
The A-4 Skyhawk would have made a fine fighter during the Korean conflict and it would have totally aced all opposition during WW2, but it was no F-4 Phantom.
So in summary not really a fighter then, but could perform a limited version of the function given some minimum requirement and low enough threat levels.
--"Something I think most liberals don't understand is exactly how stupid many conservative leaders are." - Matt Yglesias
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| parent )I said the A-4 sometimes was used as a fighter. In fact, the A-4 sometimes was used as a fighter. That's really all there is here, Sparti. Blather about how it wasn't a very good one, whether or not it would have wowed the MIGs in Korea, whether it was as good as its succeessor, etc. is just that.
--Barack Obama, elected during the banking mess, has filled his administration with Bear's and Lehman's conquerors, bestowing his papal blessing on a new era of robbery. Matt Taibi
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| parent )In reality, the A-4 was almost solely used as close air support for troops in the field in Vietnam, often with napalm and anti-personnel bombs, along with its colt mk 12 20 ml cannons. It was no match for the MIG-19s and -21s that entered the theater in 1965 so its capacity as a fighter were virtually nonexistent in that battlefield.
--All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz and I'm fine.
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| parent )They could absorb an awesome amount of small arms fire and beat the bull pee-pee out of anything it saw on the ground. If we could pop smoke and get the A1Es and Skyraiders some rough directions from that smoke, it was all over but the crying.
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| parent )"I'm not George Bush!"
Actually there are many parallels:
The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.
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| parent )-- Can explain the difference between Autism and Down's Syndrome to Grandpa.
--Full stop
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| parent )...in the 30 minutes I saw. If he was like that in the first hour then things aren't going to change much.
--I went to YOUR institutional learning facilities?! So how can you say I'M crazy? - S. Tendencies
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)I came in late (decided to eat dinner in peace) and McCain was blinking like a maniac.
--The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.
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| parent )Intrade contract on Obama has been going up throughout the entire debate and is now at an all time high. No surprise that McCain is now at an all time low.
--Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. -Mark Twain
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)Did McCain say that Sarah Palin knew a lot about autism? I thought her son had Down Syndrome.
--Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. -Mark Twain
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)In such cases, the parents have a tough row to hoe.
--For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise - B. Franklin
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| parent )...at that age.
--It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.
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| parent )diagnosis is possible as early as 6 mos.
The baby was born, according to a cursory web search, back in April, around 6 months ago.
& Yes, Downs would make an autism diagnosis more difficult, but I don't think impossible, at such an early age.
--For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise - B. Franklin
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| parent )Did John McCain say military veterans should be allowed to teach school without teacher training or teaching certificates?
--The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.
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)who needs training or certification anyway?
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )between training and PTSD, I'd definitely choose the PTSD. After all, we're hiring them to deal with children.
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| parent )More substantive and more actual debate back and forth than any of the previous elongated press releases.
McCain should probably have trimmed down on the eye-rolling -- though perhaps only CNN did the split screen show both of them much of the time thing.
--Steven Palmer Peterson
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)And who's the moron who told the Senator from Arizona that mentioning him in every other sentence?
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)
--The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.
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| parent )he looks more animated than McCain does.
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| parent )but if I ever meet him he gets a severe c^%kpunching.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )Hook 'em up to a generator . . .
--The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.
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)I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )Ok, so I stole that from the Biden-Palin debate flashcards. Sue me, the line rocks.
--"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
–Voltaire
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| parent )OMG!
OMG!
OMG!
This is so awesome!
--The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.
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| parent )Obama discusses the issues, McCain keeps attacking. I think I know how this one is going to play out.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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)is what McCain is doing now
--The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.
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| parent )it doesn't matter. He's obviously more interested in getting Obama than discussing the issues. Obama is calm, cool, collected and slightly boring. That's much more reassuring than attack, attack, attack.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )Obama is so deep in McCain's head, he might as well be scripting the man's responses himself.
IM ON UR LAWN
--STEALIN UR VOTES
The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.
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| parent )and did you see the doofus meter dive bomb when the abortion topic was handed off from Obama to McCain?
--The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.
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| parent )He's furious. He's not thinking straight.
At this point, he's groping around on the canvas for his mouthpiece.
We are watching the definitive end of the campaign.
--The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.
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| parent )This is one of the most brutal political beatings I've ever seen.
If McCain makes it out of there under his own power, I would give him tremendous credit. This is a TKO waiting to happen.
--The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.
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)I wouldn't have had to smear him for the past several months."
Now he's playing the victim. Did I see a tear?
Complaining about campaign spending? Hmmm.
Joe the Plumber again!
"I'm proud of the people who come to my rallies"
McCain appears to be losing it. Watch that temper.
Obama keeps coming back to the economy an domestic issues. McCain is off topic.
"I don't care about Ayers". Then why do you keep bringing him up.
Obama is smacking McCain down hard on Ayers. And again about ACORN.
My wife just said "McCain looks like he's gonna blow".
McCain is losing it. Wandering off on tangents. If he doesn't control himself, he's lost this debate.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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)seem to indicate that McCain did significantly better when he talked about taxes than when he talked about Ayers/ACORN.
--Steven Palmer Peterson
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| parent )The post debate "analysis" from these morons at CNN after the townhall was absolutely awful. I imagine the undecided pool now is probably even worse. These people aren't undecided after a careful weighing of the issues-- they're undecided because they can't seem to achieve a cogent thought either way.
My prediction from tonight, these people will say that they didn't like either candidate because neither talked about the economy or energy.
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| parent )it's funny, when he follows the advice of conservatives his popularity nosedives, when he discusses economic issues he does much better. I'm afraid it's too late, though, I don't see anything that's changing the basic dynamic of the race.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )Obama baited McCain into mentioning Ayers, then shot it down with such thoroughness that the Ayers ads -- the current centerpiece of McCain's attack -- look downright ludicrous.
I retract my prediction that the polls will close up in the next three weeks. This is landslide territory.
Though I don't have a horse in this race, I have to confess sheer admiration for Obama's political skill. The guy is terrifying. If I had to run against him, I'd hide under a bed.
--The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.
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| parent )I see the basic dynamic of the race being that Obama will continue to grow his lead over the next 3 weeks. I don't see a "reversion to mean" as having any logical support. That's the trend I see continuing.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )-- so I'm not so much betting on reversion to the mean, but instead just guessing that's there's an absolute upper limit to how far he can go --
-- add about 4-5% who just won't vote for a black dude and that means the absolute-never-exceed cap is 70%
Then I figure you got a general asymptotic thing where it gets increasingly hard to get those last percentage points.
--Steven Palmer Peterson
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| parent )I can hear the screams from the Club for Growth as we speak.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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)They're probably thrilled -- anything to bankrupt the Federal treasury.
--It's impossible to debate if people simply hold beliefs that have no grounding in reality.
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| parent )Massive debt means less entitlement with defense-only spending. I couldn't believe McCain was arguing we should tax-cut our way out of the financial crisis last night. Don't know why I'm still surprised by it, but there it is.
--"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
–Voltaire
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| parent )With that proviso, fine with me.
In these parts "club for growth" is code for a marijuana co-op, usually family-run. I take it you are using it in a different sense?
--Barack Obama, elected during the banking mess, has filled his administration with Bear's and Lehman's conquerors, bestowing his papal blessing on a new era of robbery. Matt Taibi
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| parent )the club for growth helped bald men cultivate lush pompadours.
--Steven Palmer Peterson
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| parent )Instead of taking a shot, I's takin a sip.
http://www.debatedrink.com/images/FinalDebate.pdf
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| parent )nt
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| parent )I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )I guess they did shake up the campaign, he's the new domestic advisor.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )Ahh, what could possibly happen that would truly be interesting? I doubt McCain will come up with anything newsworthy, like a single-term pledge. I'm certain he'll honor his fake manhood by getting Bill Ayers into the conversation, but quite possibly after the moderator gets there first. McCain will try to fit the latter into a larger argument about Obama's judgment. Obama will suggest there are more important things to talk about than Bill Ayers. McCain will probably, because he's about to be the sorest loser in the history of presidential elections, opine that thanks to ACORN the election results may be tainted, if not stolen. Because the ACORN story doesn't lend itself to sound bites, other than the dishonest attack itself, this will be a slight advantage for McCain. But again, Obama will suggest there are more important things...
McCain's much vaunted Attack Night will probably lose a lotta steam due to the proximity of the candidates -- they'll be sitting together at a table. If he DOES force an aggressive attack game into this context? He'll lose the debate by an even greater margin than usual.
Obama will win all the post debate snap polls. Probably by the same margin as before.
--Full stop
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)LINK
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )everyone takes a drink. Squirting lapel flower: take two. Any facial expression or gesture from Obama that was ever done by any of the six Three Stooges - bottoms up. An underarm fart by the moderator to cut off an answer - take another.
--Barack Obama, elected during the banking mess, has filled his administration with Bear's and Lehman's conquerors, bestowing his papal blessing on a new era of robbery. Matt Taibi
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| parent )Stone Cold Sober Drinking Game.
--"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
–Voltaire
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| parent )I don't think I can watch another debate.
--I went to YOUR institutional learning facilities?! So how can you say I'M crazy? - S. Tendencies
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| parent ).....I won't wreck it for any PR fans but it was a pretty good episode.
--I went to YOUR institutional learning facilities?! So how can you say I'M crazy? - S. Tendencies
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| parent )You missed the only good one.
Well, there's always cnn.com.
--The other day I heard that ignorance and apathy are sweeping the country. I didn't know that, but I don't really care.
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| parent )While at the gym this am I suffered through about 5 minutes of teeth nashing and listened to part Palin's nails-on-a-chalkboard speech in New Hampshire. Putting aside Palin's geographical challenges [remember she can see Russia from her home state], even when reading from a teleprompter the woman is a mindless disaster. Within a span of less than 2 minutes she claimed that McCain would
-cut taxes
-freeze spending
-increase regulation on the financial and banking industries
-sitmulate the economy to improve job prospects
-balance the budget
-reduce the $10T deficit
Wow, who knew that McCain had magical powers??
Palin is a blithering idiot, she needs to go back to Juneau on November 5th, climb into her tanning bed and stay out the lower 48 for good.
--All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz and I'm fine.
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)A few excerpts:
The following pertains to your assessment of Palin's speech. IMHO.
Very likely true for both sides however unilateral disarmament is unacceptable and there simply is no rational basis to discuss ACORN or Ayers in a non-partisan manner prior to the election. Neither issue is even remotely revelant to the decision to be made on 4 November 2008.
Same with "the surge" which itself is a mere talking point outside the context of our larger FUBAR in Iraq.
Our failure to establish a status of forces agreement with Iraq? Now there is a substantive policy issue.
Obama bin lyin?
The only difference between Obama and Osama is BS?
Yawn, and expect a ton of talking points coming right back atcha!
Brooks channels Larison, Brooks from above:
I view the McCain candidacy as one of the most painful tragedies I’ve ever witnessed
Larison from elsewhere -- John McCain is a stumbling failure unable to deliver political leadership in the clutch
--The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.
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| parent )perfectly by the next two paras of your own words. Neat.
--Barack Obama, elected during the banking mess, has filled his administration with Bear's and Lehman's conquerors, bestowing his papal blessing on a new era of robbery. Matt Taibi
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| parent )to be POTUS the sooner we can return to truly interesting topics.
Otherwise, I understand that at times a lawyer simply has a lousy case but has no choice except to play out the hand.
--The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.
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| parent )needed for high office, the faster we can agree that both parties failed to put their best candidates forward, as they often do.
--Barack Obama, elected during the banking mess, has filled his administration with Bear's and Lehman's conquerors, bestowing his papal blessing on a new era of robbery. Matt Taibi
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| parent )Maybe Obama does lack the experience however McCain's choice of Sarah Palin forfeits the argument.
--The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.
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| parent )David Brooks is like a football fan who turns off the TV when his team is down by 35 and says "Eh, boring."
But okay, arguendo, as it were . . .
Obama lacks the experience to be POTUS, pals around with terrorists and intends to decorate the White House consistent with Sanford & Sons.
Why is McCain losing to the guy? Maybe we can talk about that?
--The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.
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| parent )Sez the guy who voted for G.W. Bush. Twice. Disproving your own metric re experience with the first vote. Proving an inability to learn from it with the second.
--Full stop
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| parent )the Presidency actually improves if you vote against him.
--Barack Obama, elected during the banking mess, has filled his administration with Bear's and Lehman's conquerors, bestowing his papal blessing on a new era of robbery. Matt Taibi
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| parent )I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )I missed it - dang. Who won?
--Barack Obama, elected during the banking mess, has filled his administration with Bear's and Lehman's conquerors, bestowing his papal blessing on a new era of robbery. Matt Taibi
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| parent )only presidential elections count. Any other rules we should know about?
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )which started and finished with Presidential election picks, obviously. Though I'm sure Harley appreciates your Sancho Panza routine.
--Barack Obama, elected during the banking mess, has filled his administration with Bear's and Lehman's conquerors, bestowing his papal blessing on a new era of robbery. Matt Taibi
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| parent )I wasn't around in 2004, but in 2006 I kicked every conservatives ass in predictions - I remember with some amusement the predictions that Republicans would pick up seats in the senate and house. Right now Harley's predictions are close to mine, so I'm pretty confident in saying the Republicans will be walking around shell shocked on Nov. 5th.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )one prof's example of the problem with inductive reasoning:
A guy falls out the window of his 40th floor office. After passing 30 floors he says "so far, so good!"
--Steven Palmer Peterson
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| parent )Or if you insist, pick someone else's.
--Barack Obama, elected during the banking mess, has filled his administration with Bear's and Lehman's conquerors, bestowing his papal blessing on a new era of robbery. Matt Taibi
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| parent )I'd be relieved if ACORN's Mickey Mouse won the election.
IMO this is the best set of candidates we've had on both sides since at least 1996.
--Steven Palmer Peterson
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| parent )I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )your own bad self.
--Barack Obama, elected during the banking mess, has filled his administration with Bear's and Lehman's conquerors, bestowing his papal blessing on a new era of robbery. Matt Taibi
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| parent )that I support Democrats and specifically Obama in this election. What I don't do is go off half cocked on the latest Republican talking points. I have no problem investigating to see if ACORN or it's employees or contractors have performed illegal actions. I just don't go on and on (and on) ranting about how it's destroying the integrity of US elections.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )the integrity of US elections? Or said that even once?
ACORN is not the latest talking point, at least to those who have been paying attention. I mentioned it here almost a month ago. I can't help it if Karl Rove lurks here.
--Barack Obama, elected during the banking mess, has filled his administration with Bear's and Lehman's conquerors, bestowing his papal blessing on a new era of robbery. Matt Taibi
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| parent )Actually, it looks like McCain just said that ACORN has ruined the integrity of the election.
--Steven Palmer Peterson
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| parent )McCain demonstrates that he's got the temperament of a blogger:
Steven Palmer Peterson
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| parent )has become the Chicken Little Party.
In 2004 and '06 it was 'The terrorists are going to destroy the United States. Destroy it!' Now we've got the presidential candidate claiming on national television that ACORN might destroy the 'fabric of democracy!'
Cowards.
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| parent )"massive election fraud"?
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )Start with the definition of election fraud, work from there, and call me when you hit a snag.
--Barack Obama, elected during the banking mess, has filled his administration with Bear's and Lehman's conquerors, bestowing his papal blessing on a new era of robbery. Matt Taibi
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| parent )I wish I only had to work on what I thought was interesting.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )Oops, that's a whole nuther debate. Promoted to front page.
--"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
–Voltaire
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)going without thread for a few years would be good for you and your family.
--I blame it all on the Internet
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| parent )