A small quibble but I missed the vote

Submitted by Timmy on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 12:24am

Meta

on the elimination of diaries. You know the vote which established the parameters for the procedure. But then again I really wasn't paying attention to all the bumping of gums that was going on at the time. It really wasn't of any interest to me and that certainly hasn't changed. It does seem that if you take it to its logical conclusion (more libs than conservatives on this site). That we ought to just change the name of the site to Wings and be done with it, or pursue a recruiting effort of my conservative brethren and change the name to Red States.

“Hindsight alone is not wisdom and second-guessing is not a strategy.”
John B. Dwyer

It is a Small Quibble...Whining Really....

(#5637)

Submitted by Traveller on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 12:53am.

...I constantly am biting my tongue on your posts. Relax, enjoy, you can stand the heat. If I can step back with a wry grin, so can you.

Best Wishes,

Traveller

no just a thought

(#6194)

Submitted by Timmy on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 10:41pm.

when diaries disappear because of negative votes.

““I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with this administration, somehow you’re not patriotic. We need to stand up and say we’re Americans, and we have the right to debate and disagree with any administration!”” –H

So you don't get involved in the discussion

(#5653)

Submitted by HankP on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 2:33am.

and then complain about the result?

It's easy enough to start your own blog if you're unhappy around here.

I blame it all on the Internet

Bull, I was involved in the discussion

(#5670)

Submitted by jackson mead on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 3:30am.

and I don't recall any "acceptability" standard beyond the old rules. If we start with the censorship garbage this place will be finished and fast. I'll be the first one gone.

I'm trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I don't need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! Screw you guys, I'm going home!

What are you talking about?

(#5692)

Submitted by HankP on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 4:07am.

WetherMan implemented the voting system as a test, +10 goes from diaries to front page, -7 goes from front page to diaries (if it works properly, which we're not 100% sure about yet). The only censorship or imposed standards are implemented by the moderators. I just get annoyed by Timmy not getting involved beyond cryptic comments about the Kellogg-Briand treaty or congressional actions during reconstruction, then posts a diary criticizing how the site is run. There hasn't been a vote or a decision, but he couldn't rouse himself to get involved or find out, just to b!tch about some imagined results. If he's that unhappy about it he can go to the clown show at red state, I'm sure they'd be thrilled to have him.

I blame it all on the Internet

There was no vote ...

(#5660)

Submitted by Livia on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 3:00am.

... WetherMan just decided to enable voting on diaries as an experiment.

or are you talking about something else? Elimination of diaries?

Duly noted

(#5663)

Submitted by Elagabalus on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 3:18am.

as it was at the time. Just couldn't let your guard down for a second...

Anyhoo, you have to click on that grey arrow to vote your own diary in otherwise it won't show in the queue. Oh, you can either vote for (up arrow) or against (down arrow). It's a little bit clunky but then again it's only a test. HankP and Wetherman are doing a bang up job.

I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine

I need to understand this, if we are going

(#5669)

Submitted by jackson mead on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 3:27am.

to censor diaries? I am outta here like, now. The vote can only act as a promotion technique.

I'm trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I don't need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! Screw you guys, I'm going home!

Hummmm...as a test....I Pushed The Down Arrow on This Diary...

(#5684)

Submitted by Traveller on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 3:52am.

....I've never used the arrow one way or another before. I think I pushed it twice not knowing what I was doing and the Diary count went from Plus 1, to Minus -1.

Interesting.

Nobody panic, please...lol

This is just an interesting piece of functionality, nothing more as far as I know.

I suppose this could be used to voice a general disagreement or, if I remember correctly, its use was to indicate the Diaries lack of suitablity for Front Page.

That's all it is.

And, I tend to think that it is valid in this context.

No one has ever even hinted at censoring Diaries through this method. There's nothing strange here, nothing to be worried about. Some people will think a post worthy of Front Page-dom, some will not...but I tend to think that most people will ignore the arrows one way or another unless the Diary strongly moves them.

As maybe it should be.

But no censorship. I think that that is off the table, and to be correct about this, never was on the table.

Best Wishes,

Traveller

You can swing a vote by 2

(#5737)

Submitted by Bill White on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 10:13am.

if you change a +1 to -1 or vice versa.

For a while, at least, negative rated diaries seemed to still appear in the Recent Diary list. It just needs a vote, any vote.

Now, if WM has been messing in the code again, I can't say.

The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.

It was only a suggestion

(#5690)

Submitted by Username on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 4:04am.

here:

http://theforvm.org/diary/wetherman/diary-voting#comment-4916
by catchy:

negative diary votes should count towards disappearance in addition to positive votes counting towards front-paging.

It should take a high negative total to make a diary disappear, say ~20 or so. But it would be exciting and also useful to get rid of the bad ones.

Kierkegaard, back me up here. This is the kind of drama the site needs, right?

Places like Digg and Slashdot don't disappear comments rated below a certain point, they only hide them from the main view while offering an option to display everything. The method may or may not help stem spam and trolling.

hey, that's a pretty good suggestion.

(#5785)

Submitted by catchy on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 12:13pm.

I likes the way that guy thinks

First things First

(#5741)

Submitted by Harley on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 10:24am.

Never base umbrage or fears or whatever on a Timmy diary of this nature.

“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco

Wait a minute...

(#5688)

Submitted by Livia on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 3:58am.

... have any diaries actually been deleted?

I didn't notice any disappear, so what are we talking about?

The voting thing is only supposed to promote to the front page or remove from the front page (back to the diary queue).

If any diaries are gone, please assume that it was a bug, and not a deliberate deletion.

No!!!!

(#5694)

Submitted by Elagabalus on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 4:08am.

We have to assume that Timmy wrote a diary (not this one). He didn't know about the arrow key and the diary didn't show up. (It also happened to me today). Do to some error he lost his diary (again an assumption by me) which then caused him to pen this caustic little ditty you see before you.

I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine

Why not let him explain it ...

(#5697)

Submitted by Livia on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 4:09am.

... can we get some clarification about what you're talking about Timmy?

Because

(#5699)

Submitted by Elagabalus on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 4:14am.

he's in bed darlin'. :)

I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine

As I will be ...

(#5704)

Submitted by Livia on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 4:23am.

... now.

In fact

(#5698)

Submitted by Elagabalus on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 4:12am.

I just voted this diary down too. let's see what happens...

I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine

Nothing will happen

(#5701)

Submitted by Username on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 4:15am.

See hank's comment below.

I voted it down, too.

(#5718)

Submitted by Chuchundra on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 7:10am.

A couple more down votes and Timmy gets fed to the lions!

Guard, protect and cherish your land, for there is no afterlife for a place that started out as Heaven.

There is no...

(#5732)

Submitted by M Aurelius on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 9:33am.

...diary elimination policy or procedure or anything.

Stop making stuff up. Particularly since you haven't done a thing for the site. I'll go conservative on you: "Either lead, follow, or get out of the way". Everybody here defines their own role.

WetherMan came up with a front page demotion scheme to go with the promotion idea. I'm not crazy about it but he wants to test it.

I also question that there are more libs on the site. To me it feels as if there are more conservatives and there are some people who are not easy to pin down.

I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.

Seconded

(#5740)

Submitted by Harley on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 10:23am.

If we were in the business of censoring andn eliminating diaries, I woulda eliminated this one.

“Two clichés make us laugh but a hundred clichés move us, because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion." - Umberto Eco

see 6192#

(#6193)

Submitted by Timmy on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 10:39pm.

please read it more than once.

Stop making stuff up

(#6192)

Submitted by Timmy on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 10:38pm.

please start paying attention, the two diaries which disappeared have reappeared probably due to something I said.

With respect to libs, why don't you take a census and then get back to me.

Please pay attention...

(#6253)

Submitted by M Aurelius on Wed, 11/01/2006 - 12:45am.

...yourself. The diaries dissapeared because they had no votes and they required one vote, positive or negative, to show up.

A purely technical issue, while you start this one with total BS about how you "missed the vote on the elimination of diaries", knowing full well no such vote had ever taken place, and implying foul play.

So here is the deal (we've been here before): clean up your fabricated accusations right here, or else consider yourself warned. I will not have you running around accusing people who are working hard to make this community work. Enough is enough.

As for the libs, you do the census, you are raising the issue. I'm not doing your homework.

I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.

To be fair...

(#6265)

Submitted by Elagabalus on Wed, 11/01/2006 - 1:30am.

although my first reaction was similiar to yours after reading it over a concluded that Timmy had written another diary, before this one, that had disappeared (which turned out to be the case). This diary was simply a reaction to losing his first diary so the emotions expressed therein are somewhat understandable.

I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine

No, they aren't.

(#6311)

Submitted by M Aurelius on Wed, 11/01/2006 - 9:54am.

The site is new, WhetherMan and HankP, and even me, are doing stuff to it. The fact that he automatically assumes bad faith says a lot more about him than about the forvm.

He hasn't contributed one thing; hasn't even voted or made any positive proposals. His one proposal is that we turn into Wings or Red State.

If he can't stand a bi-partisan site, nobody is forcing him to be here...

I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.

Actually

(#6435)

Submitted by HankP on Wed, 11/01/2006 - 1:41pm.

I'd like to see how long he would last at red state if he criticized the moderators and site operators there the way he criticizes the ones here.

I blame it all on the Internet

Longer than at Dkos

(#6438)

Submitted by jackson mead on Wed, 11/01/2006 - 1:47pm.

xxx

I'm trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I don't need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! Screw you guys, I'm going home!

Doubtful

(#6439)

Submitted by HankP on Wed, 11/01/2006 - 1:51pm.

almost every time I look at red state (less and less as time goes on) I usually see at least one banning per thread (I've even seen 3 or 4 on the more contentious ones). At DKos, rarely. DKos votes people down all the time, but there's a difference between being voted down and banned, wouldn't you say?

I blame it all on the Internet

Only the difference of being hanged by a mob

(#6440)

Submitted by jackson mead on Wed, 11/01/2006 - 1:51pm.

verses by a judge.

I'm trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I don't need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! Screw you guys, I'm going home!

Come on

(#6443)

Submitted by HankP on Wed, 11/01/2006 - 1:54pm.

neither is as serious as that, but voting down isn't the same as banning.

I'm surprised your standing up for red state, based on what I've read there you wouldn't fit in at all.

I blame it all on the Internet

I'm not standing up for them

(#6451)

Submitted by jackson mead on Wed, 11/01/2006 - 2:05pm.

I don't go there, just trying to stop the "you guys Bad" stuff.

I'm trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I don't need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! Screw you guys, I'm going home!

You started it...

(#6564)

Submitted by M Aurelius on Wed, 11/01/2006 - 7:40pm.

"Longer than at Dkos", remember?

I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.

Huh?

(#6566)

Submitted by Macallan on Wed, 11/01/2006 - 7:42pm.

He was replying to HankP's comment about Redstate.

“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”

Which merely said that...

(#6569)

Submitted by M Aurelius on Wed, 11/01/2006 - 7:47pm.

...Red State would ban Timmy quickly if he attacked the moderators.

And that is a true statement which is far from "you guys bad".

All Mead/SPC had to do was reply that dKos was the same, and it would have ended there.

But noooooo.

Mead went the "you guys" bad route with his "longer than at dKos", and then "Only the difference of being hanged by a mob".

Then he claims he is playing defense. Right.

I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.

of note, it was the moderator here, who attacked me-nt

(#6687)

Submitted by Timmy on Thu, 11/02/2006 - 12:11am.

TTT

And...

(#6691)

Submitted by M Aurelius on Thu, 11/02/2006 - 12:14am.

...deservedly so.

I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.

Oh, stop it

(#6692)

Submitted by Macallan on Thu, 11/02/2006 - 12:16am.

Nobody attacked you, and you're on thin ice for just assuming someone nuked your diary. The tech guys are dealing with running "live" on basically beta code and the FIRST assumption should be that an understandable glitch occurred, and any questions should be worded with a polite appreciation for volunteer efforts.

Am I making myself clear?

“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”

No, as usual you made an incorrect assumption

(#6693)

Submitted by HankP on Thu, 11/02/2006 - 12:17am.

and then confused a technical bug with a policy. Keep digging, though.

I blame it all on the Internet

I think he means...

(#6695)

Submitted by M Aurelius on Thu, 11/02/2006 - 12:21am.

...our little episode back in the old site.

I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.

But Comrade,

(#6699)

Submitted by HankP on Thu, 11/02/2006 - 12:25am.

that site doesn't exist anymore, and to think that it ever existed is a sign of deep imperialist brainwashing!

I blame it all on the Internet

But I was sure...

(#6707)

Submitted by M Aurelius on Thu, 11/02/2006 - 12:31am.

...we were at war with Eurasia...

I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.

nope-nt

(#6703)

Submitted by Timmy on Thu, 11/02/2006 - 12:29am.

TTT

actually, I pointed out that I had no knowledge of the

(#6702)

Submitted by Timmy on Thu, 11/02/2006 - 12:28am.

situation if you care to read what I wrote but then I ran with the information I had at hand provided by a third party at this site. Then I rolled out a scenario.

Timmy

(#6704)

Submitted by Macallan on Thu, 11/02/2006 - 12:29am.

Just drop it.

“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”

More than happy to

(#6708)

Submitted by Timmy on Thu, 11/02/2006 - 12:32am.

if your comment is the final one.

Sigh... Refill time...

(#6621)

Submitted by Ken White on Wed, 11/01/2006 - 9:15pm.

The K Codes explained HERE.

What the are you talking about? nt

(#6571)

Submitted by jackson mead on Wed, 11/01/2006 - 7:50pm.

xxx

I'm trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I don't need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! Screw you guys, I'm going home!

#6569

(#6578)

Submitted by M Aurelius on Wed, 11/01/2006 - 8:02pm.

I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.

And? nt

(#6581)

Submitted by jackson mead on Wed, 11/01/2006 - 8:03pm.

xxx

I'm trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I don't need to hear crap from a bunch of hippie freaks living in denial! Screw you guys, I'm going home!

False equivalence nt

(#6603)

Submitted by HankP on Wed, 11/01/2006 - 8:36pm.

I blame it all on the Internet

Since I have a history at both

(#6686)

Submitted by Timmy on Thu, 11/02/2006 - 12:09am.

the answer is approximately three hours at DKos. That would be the duration after taking on DKos, himself, on one of his observations with respect to strategic as compared to tactical using Pickett's as the analogy.

My duration over at Wings was far longer, although Hilsoy, or is it Hilzoy, took exception to one of my analogies.

Red States, well I find it rather boring.

I disagree re dKos

(#6701)

Submitted by tomsyl on Thu, 11/02/2006 - 12:28am.

I spent quite a bit of time there but made less than ten posts before my commenting abilities were switched off. The comments themselves were my usual - scrupulously fair, insouciant, sparkling yet with a somewhat tannic finish redolent of rasberries. Nothing to really offend even a rabid loon of the Left, I thought . . .but apparently I was wrong, and got the bum's rush.

Thre's no tolerance there that I can see - just an echo chamber.

I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems scary and weird. It'll happen to you.—Abraham Simpson

the first

(#6489)

Submitted by Elagabalus on Wed, 11/01/2006 - 3:01pm.

time he has shown any emotion at all and you're complaining!!!

I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine

I guess he's just not a dog lover... :) NT

(#6491)

Submitted by Ken White on Wed, 11/01/2006 - 3:03pm.

The K Codes explained HERE.

He hasn't contributed one thing

(#6682)

Submitted by Timmy on Thu, 11/02/2006 - 12:01am.

actually this diary was my first effort and it appears to have paid dividends with the elimination of the negative vote.

With respect to the balance, it was a simple observation that if diaries could be voted down (isolated from the general population) what the site would end up looking like. I balanced the outlook by providing two scenarios.

MA you don't need to thank me for the effort.

Nah...

(#6684)

Submitted by M Aurelius on Thu, 11/02/2006 - 12:06am.

This diary wasn't the one that did it. In fact this diary was a good example to keep the negative vote.

I'll let you know that I got no traction with the warning so you are off the hook. We shall continue the Tom & Jerry routine elsewhere...

I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.

Then maybe you should reread my diary

(#6690)

Submitted by Timmy on Thu, 11/02/2006 - 12:13am.

as it certainly wasn't misleading and pointed out a flaw.

Timmy, I believe ALL diaries

(#5738)

Submitted by Bill White on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 10:16am.

remain to be found if you click the Diaries link at the top of the page. It's next to Home.

A listing on Recent Diaries requires a vote. Any vote it would seem as this diary is at -5 and still shows up.

The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.

caved out of the Recent Diaries lineup

(#6206)

Submitted by Timmy on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 11:03pm.

as well as "my diaries". I will admit that I didn't hit the top of the page button.

Was a diary eliminated?

(#5744)

Submitted by Jordan on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 10:26am.

Can you give more information? I don't recall any discussion on when to completely remove diaries, and was under the assumption that would only happen with spam diaries or profanity, etc.

M Aurelius was probably right.

No

(#5747)

Submitted by Bill White on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 10:28am.

If you click "diaries" next to home (at the very top of the page) every diary is there. As far as I can tell.

However until a diary gets a vote (+1 or -1 doesn't seem to matter) it is not included on the recent diaries list at the right column of the site.

The monkeys diary was "missing" until I gave it a vote then it was included among the Recent Diaries,

The proper balance between defense and welfare are the tectonic plates that lie beneath our political discourse.

So: should diary posters

(#5803)

Submitted by Jay C on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 12:54pm.

just always remember to add a vote for their own diary to make sure it stays on the list?

Bill

(#6183)

Submitted by Elagabalus on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 10:26pm.

Traveller and I voted on this diary last night. So why didn't show up today?

I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine

The voting procedure was misconfigured

(#6184)

Submitted by HankP on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 10:27pm.

fixed now.

I blame it all on the Internet

HankP and Diebold!

(#6185)

Submitted by Yertle on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 10:31pm.

Rigging the elections! Disappearing diaries! Probably shipped them off to DU in secret black helicopters to be tortured. For shame...

He's going

(#6187)

Submitted by Elagabalus on Tue, 10/31/2006 - 10:32pm.

to be tortured with Depleted Uranium?!

I had discovered a great secret. That everyone loves themselves more than they love anybody else. And if I wanted them to love me, I better be like THEM!... Ken Nordine