Polar politics Open Thread.

mmghosh's picture

Canada claims the North Pole, as do a number of other nations.

In the latest gambit in the high-stakes quest for the resource-rich, waterway-laden region — quickly becoming more strategic due to climate change — on Monday Canada’s Foreign Minister John Baird announced Canada’s intentions to lay claim to the North Pole.
While the process of navigating the UN’s diplomatic chambers is likely to take years, and many view Canada’s appeal as a long shot, Baird said the government is working with scientists on a future submission to the UN that argues that the outer limits of the country’s continental shelf include the pole.

An interesting tidbit unearthed - the US Navy predicted seasonal opening of the Arctic to non-strengthened ship traffic as far back as 2001.  Whatever sceptics might think, the military takes AGW extremely seriously.  They were talking about drone tech well before it became widely known.

 

On 17 and 18 April 2001 the Oceanographer of the Navy, the Office of Naval Research, the Arctic Research Commission, and the Naval Ice Center co-sponsored a symposium on Naval Operations in an ice-free Arctic.

---

Another very important change will be the expanded use of UAVs, USVs, and UUVs in the Arctic. These unmanned, relatively inexpensive vehicles can be used for a variety of missions when manned platforms would be grounded or forced to operate on the edge of the safety envelope. In addition to their usual reconnaissance role, unmanned vehicles could be used for weapons delivery platforms and as “pathfinders” to scout ice conditions.

The Canadians might well find their claims pre-empted.

Canada, in particular, has strong feelings about access to areas it considers its territorial waters and also has concerns for protecting the Arctic waters. In accordance with the provisions of UNLCOS, Canada has claimed sovereignty and jurisdiction over the Arctic Archipelago by drawing straight baselines around the outer edges of the archipelago. Under UNCLOS, all waters inward of the baseline are considered by Canada to be "internal waters". This has the practical effect of not permitting "transit passage" or "innocent passage" and requiring all vessels, aircraft and persons to comply with Canadian domestic law. The U.S. disputes this claim, particularly in regards to the status of the Northwest Passage. The U.S. claims the Northwest Passage is an "international strait" as defined under UNCLOS. This means "transit passage" is permitted and vessels, aircraft and persons do not necessarily have to comply with Canadian domestic law.

Meanwhile, November 2013 was the warmest November ever.

 

And in geo-engineering news - Ocean Tunnels.

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A "pardon" for Alan Turing has to be about the most pointless

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mmghosh's picture

The Galileo Apology Comes To Mind -nt-

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M Scott Eiland's picture

.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Pretty accurate

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Bird Dog's picture

This survey figured that my dialect is from Seattle, Tacoma or Salt Lake City. Two out of three ain't bad.

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

That was cool!

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Yonkers me, apparently.

Another illusion shattered

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Somehow I imagined a BBC announcer accent maybe with just the faintest hint of German overlaid.   But apparently it's more like Frank Constanza.

I have studied your ways,

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English. 

Serenity Now!!

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brutusettu's picture

Frank Costanza

"Jazz, the music of unemployment."

 

Frank Zappa

New York, Yonkers, Jersey City

(#311905)

Pretty good, except the Jersey City part, though you'd need a higher resolution test to differentiate. To me, correct English is whatever George Carlin used to say.

I am not a pessimist. I am an incompetent optimist.

I'd love to see a higher resolution test

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For eastern PA, Maryland and Delaware my test would include

 

Water: pronounced wah-ter or wooder.

Mine, possessive, pronounced the same as mine (gold mine, land mine) or with 2 syllables

Fire, pronounced as mire, or higher (1 or 2 syllables)

Beach or Shore

Pizza: Pie or pizza

Parking ticket or f**king parking ticket

Parking ticket or f**king parking ticket, said in front of a priest.

Amish: A pronounced like hot or stay

"That's all" are you looking at a pile of something, or a spot you'd expect a pile to be.

Horse: rhymes with norse or hearse

 

 

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

It picked Dallas, Ft. Worth, and Arlington, TX

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so it was (overly) confident it had me within a 50 mile circle.   Still not bad.

It says I'm fom 1312-B Ross Ave, Reading PA.

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Pretty accurate, I lived in Apartment C, though.

 

Seriously, it said Philly and NJ and I'm from eastern PA and Delaware.  I think the 'hoagie' question was the clincher.  I did learn that those who pronounce Mary and Merry alike while Marry is different, as I and all who walk upright do, had the highest concentration in that part of PA I call home.

 

 

 

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

Toledo, Rockford (Illinois), Omaha

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brutusettu's picture

I definitely don't use the phrases of those in the Boston area.

 

Do you pronounce cot and caught the same?

different

 

 

Everyone else is crazy.

 

 

Not much of the country mostly pronounces cot and caught differently and calls uses the term pop for pop.  Western edge of New York, then a gap, the northern Ohio, Indian, Illinois, and Iowa.  And most of Michigan.

 

 

 

"Jazz, the music of unemployment."

 

Frank Zappa

Awesome. It's got me in Houston, New Orleans or Jackson.

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Apparently "feeder road" is a Houston-only thing and "doodle-bug" is a beetle only people from New Orleans know about.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

"I Meant To Do That"

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M Scott Eiland's picture

Apparently, the guiding spirit behind what is to remain of the bleeding, stumbling wreck that the Obama Administration has become is to be Pee Wee Herman. Or perhaps Erwin Schrödinger,  since we're allegedly have been *meant* not to like Pajama Boy, apparently isn't emblematic of an increasingly nonwhite electorate as professional lefty Adam Serwer moonsplained for our benefit a few days ago--he was always just a white doofus who hasn't bought insurance and we just couldn't tell that until all those nasty conservatives starting mocking him. Honest.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Peggy Noonan already surmised that so called Pajama Boy

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brutusettu's picture

was a ruse to throw some conservatives in a fit, have that gain attention of people that would use that to throw money at whatever the ad is looking to raise awareness/funds for.

"Jazz, the music of unemployment."

 

Frank Zappa

I remain astonished...

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Zelig's picture

...at how much you loathe liberals, liberalism, etc. It's rather unique.

 

(Zelig gets up from his chair and strolls away...)

Me: We! -- Ali

De-incentivizing Tanking

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M Scott Eiland's picture

This is definitely worth looking at. There's something inherently corrupt about giving sports teams a direct or even indirect incentive to lose games intentionally and this would do away with it; however, if they go this route they'll have to commit to it for at least thirty years to avoid screwing teams out of their turn in the process (or come up with an equitable method of compensating them for said screwing). The other problem is expansion/contraction, of course, but I'd bet they could come up with ways to deal with that. I'd like to see MLB come up with something like this (along with allowing teams to sell/trade draft picks as is the case in the NFL and the NBA).

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Mikhail Kalashnikov: 1919-2013

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M Scott Eiland's picture

Sic transit gloria mundi. The later aftermath of his achievement was definitely YMMV as far as good/bad at best, but his invention *was* quite remarkable for what it was--simple to use and easy to keep working made it ideal for a weapon that was often used by cash-poor and cursorily trained soldiers. Ultimately, the AK-47 and its subsequent incarnations were just like any other tools, able to be used for good or evil.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Well, just like any other tool

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Specifically designed to kill people.  Not really comparable with, say, an eraser or a sponge. 

They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist...
-- General John B. Sedgwick, 1864

Like I Said, A Tool

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M Scott Eiland's picture

And erasers could certainly be used in a way that would cause harm (sponges would be a bit trickier, but I bet a bit of brainstorming could come up with a way). It goes without saying that pencils, hammers, and other more robust tools have played rather substantial roles in the unjustified deaths of millions.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Well, I suppose

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Many people have been rubbed out by erasers, so I stand corrected. 

They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist...
-- General John B. Sedgwick, 1864

I'd like to comment in solidarity with conservatives

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who live in Utah: I too am having trouble accepting that gays can marry in your state.

Heh, me too. Pretty much the last place I expected

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It'll be good for SCOTUS to hear this. Either way, the outcome is good; a) it's an issue left up to the States, where it belongs or b) it gets put to bed finally.

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

Happy Solstice, I'm not celebrating in the tradition of my

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people this year. FYI, the tradition of my people usually sounds like "Hey, didja know yesterday was the Solstice?"

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

South Sudan?

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Didn't even know we were there,  and we've already got US casualties.

You didn't?

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mmghosh's picture

http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175743

 

 

FYI, "you" are everywhere.  We are just piecrusts.

Pentagon...dividing the globe, like a giant pie, into six “slices” covering almost every inch of the planet: U.S. European Command, or EUCOM (for Europe and Russia), the U.S. Pacific Command, or PACOM (Asia), CENTCOM (the Greater Middle East and a touch of North Africa), NORTHCOM (North America), SOUTHCOM (South America and most of the Caribbean), and AFRICOM (almost all of Africa)

Piecrusts...

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Now that's funny.

"I don't want us to descend into a nation of bloggers." - Steve Jobs

You left out SOCOM

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Not only is the world divided up but then it's covered again by our 5th branch of the Armed Forces. You guys are taking a bite of that apple too, with operations in PACOM, CENTCOM and AFRICOM yourselves. I was saddened to learn that you guys don't have a polar claim (we're back on topic, rejoice), I'd fully admire the act....."as a former component to an empire that could claim the entire western hemisphere's access to the pole, both north and south....yadda, yadda, yadda.

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

Its interesting how our world is kept - relatively - unaware

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mmghosh's picture

of the extent to which our masters exert economic and military control.  

 

There are always bread and culture war circuses, of course.

you dont need to know

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The democratic process is only for big wars

Cover Photo Fail

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M Scott Eiland's picture

My copy of Sports Illustrated with Peyton Manning as Sportsman of The Year just arrived in the mail at work, and whoever chose that shot of him really ought to be fired. Michael Jordan bald always looked impressive, particularly with that beady sweat thing he'd get going up there when he was dropping fifty on someone. Barry Bonds bald looked aloof and menacing (which is what he was going for, so it's a comment on style, not racial stereotypes). Random offensive lineman (white, black, or other) generally also looks menacing if you show him bald, particularly if he's got one of those bullet shaped heads. Peyton Manning bald looks like Y.A. Tittle, and not in a good way--the cover shot looks like he's being honored for Grandpa of the Year, not Sportsman of the Year. Next time, use a shot with him wearing his helmet. Trust me on this.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

I like it because he looks his age

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Bird Dog's picture

And I'm sure that wasn't unintended. It's a testament to a guy who has been through what he has, yet still returned to the top of his profession. I'm sure he'll the NFL MVP as well. Unless he chokes badly against Houston and Oakland.

 

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

--Barack Obama, January 2009

Wha?

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aireachail's picture

That's the first photo I've ever seen of him where he looks like a man rather than a boy.

 

Good choice, vote I.

Is he actually bald,

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or is it just an unflattering photo crop? The photo treatment doesn't help either: slightly overexposed, contrasty and "gritty" isn't always a good look for someone who's slightly overexposed and contrasty in real life. Tobacco background adds to the overall geriatric feel of the shot.  

 

That said, I bet Peyton had photo approval, if not editorial approval, meaning he saw & liked the cover in advance. 

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

If He Approved That. . .

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M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .I'm impressed with his lack of vanity--most men (including me) would react badly to a photo that makes them look twenty years older than they actually are.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

haha

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you like your sportsmen menacing. got it.

;-)

“The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.”
-George Bernard Shaw

The Bald Ones, Anyway

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M Scott Eiland's picture

Or bald could just work for them, like Jordan. If bald makes you look old, and that's not the look you're going for, avoiding professional photographs that depict you that way seems to be a good idea (particularly in a sport where you often are wearing a cap or a helmet). If you're a professional photographer trying to depict the "Sportsman Of The Year," it's probably not a moment of professional triumph for you if the photo you take of said athlete looks like it would be appropriately captioned by "Get off my lawn!"

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

it is a pretty crappy picture of him

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thats fer sure.

“The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.”
-George Bernard Shaw

"(Teh gheys are icky and I'll lose money to say it)"

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brutusettu's picture

"It seems like, to me, a vagina -- as a man -- would be more desirable than a man's anus. That's just me. I'm just thinking: There's more there! She's got more to offer. I mean, come on, dudes! You know what I'm saying? But hey, sin: It's not logical, my man. It's just not logical," he's quoted as saying.

Asked what, in his mind, is sinful, Robertson replied: "Start with homosexual behavior and just morph out from there. Bestiality, sleeping around with this woman and that woman and that woman and those men."

 

Or so says the reason for Duck Dynasty.

 

 

 "I never, with my eyes, saw the mistreatment of any black person. Not once. Where we lived was all farmers. The blacks worked for the farmers. I hoed cotton with them. I'm with the blacks, because we're white trash. We're going across the field. ... They're singing and happy. I never heard one of them, one black person, say, 'I tell you what: These doggone white people' -- not a word!

"Pre-entitlement, pre-welfare, you say: Were they happy? They were godly; they were happy; no one was singing the blues," GQ quotes Robertson as saying.

Probably not even near the top of the class at the Bobo School of Investigatory Investigation, at least he Bobo would ask a direct question.  Crikey Ole Miss integration etc was pretty close to right next door to him growing up.

"Jazz, the music of unemployment."

 

Frank Zappa

And? A guy has an opinion.

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A&E is free to tell the guy to get lost for expressing it.  But the first few sentences you quoted are generally supported by public opinion as somewhere north of 95% of men have that preference.  GLAAD is pretty much on record now as saying "Well, we just meant tolerance of us."

 

 

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

95% of men would risk money to say it's not logical????

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brutusettu's picture

And since he just didn't stop talking after the start of his quote that his comment was longer than the 1st few sentences, would 95% further risk money to say how they don't like obese women or some such and that surely bestiality is a nice thing to throw in with talking about not wanting to have relations with large women?  

 

"No sheep, no fat chicks" Robertson? "I like the black text the most in a red letter Bible" Robertson?

 

And he didn't just stop there, he apparently missed the "whites only" "colored only" signs from his youth or thought not expressing opinions that could lynch worthy was a sign that everything was peachy.

 

 

 

bonus from 2010:

"They (homosexuals) committed indecent acts with one another," said Robertson, clad in his usual camouflage, in the video posted on the church's YouTube page, which has drawn fresh attention in the wake of Robertson's suspension from one of the most-watched shows on cable television.

"And they received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion," he added. "They're full of murder, envy, strife, hatred. They are insolent, arrogant God haters. They are heartless. They are faithless. They are senseless. They are ruthless. They invent ways of doing evil."

I'm having doubts on whether Robertson would say the same of people living in a constant state of divorce (24/7 sin zone) after they ended their marriage etc.

 

 

Call me Jon Huntsman, but it doesn't seem logical to think every adult's interest has to limited based purely on their sex.  How the frack can finding another willing adult in this way go into a person's heart and defile them in and of itself, how can that make them full of murder?  

 

"Jazz, the music of unemployment."

 

Frank Zappa

Not Enough Mockery In The Universe. . .

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M Scott Eiland's picture

. . .to deal with the latest mascot for Obamacare propaganda--but this is a good start.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Great idea for a meme, but sadly all of these suck except

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for the Oberlin one. Is it time for another round of Why Can't Conservatives Do Comedy?

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

Exporting our problems.

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mmghosh's picture

http://www.monbiot.com/2013/12/16/power-crazed/

Three hundred microgrammes of fine particulates per cubic metre of air is classed as severe pollution, the point at which children and elderly people should not leave their homes. As Greenpeace points out, in Shanghai a fortnight ago and in Harbin in October, concentrations exceeded 500 microgrammes(18). By far the greatest source of these particles is coal burning. In total, air pollution in northern China, according to a study published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, has cut average life expectancy by five and a half years(19).

 

We have exported much of our pollution – and its associated deaths – but the residue in our own countries is still severe. A study by the Clean Air Task Force suggests that coal power in the US causes 13,200 premature deaths a year.

---

While nuclear power is faltering, coal is booming. Almost 1,200 new plants are being developed worldwide(26): many will use coal exported from the United States and Australia. The exports are now a massive source of income for these supposedly greening economies(27). By 2030, China is expected to import almost five times as much coal as it does today(28). The International Energy Agency estimates that the global use of coal will increase by 65% by 2035(29). Even before you consider climate change, this is a disaster.

 

You don’t have to be an enthusiast for atomic energy to see that it scarcely features as a health risk beside its rival. I wonder whether the nuclear panic might be a way of not seeing. Displacement is something we all do: fixing on something small to avoid engaging with something big.

I'm all for nuclear.

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Bernard Guerrero's picture

OTOH, "A study by the Clean Air Task Force suggests that coal power in the US causes 13,200 premature deaths a year" is basically a rounding error. It's roughly a third of the death toll from auto accidents or twice the toll of people dying from falling off of ladders while putting up Christmas lights on their roofs. I'd think it would be easier to make the case based on the impact on chronic lung diseases of all sorts, the man-hours lost + treatment costs are going to be much. much larger.

AndrewSshi, ladies and gentleman

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I liked this quote and wanted to highlight it:

 

saying that, well, you can get a minarchist state that isn't a sock-puppet of capital is more naive than 30s-era apologists for Stalin--after all, we've got clear records of the relations of capital and the state in a McKinleynomics environment, whereas there wasn't a lot of information getting out of the USSR in the 1930s.

This is a conversation I've had

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via Facebook with a lot of my libertarian friends. Almost to a man, they'll insist that of course they don't have a problem with workers unionizing and that of course they don't think you should have Pinkertons shooting/beating the crap out of people who try to strike. But, say libertarians, they do want to see a state that acts as a neutral arbiter between management and labor. And it's uncannily similar to my commie friends who say that of course Stalin, Pol Pot, etc. etc. weren't true Communists.

And nobody addressed your argument

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BG sounded off a bunch of rules that he likes and so did MSCott, but neither commented on how realistic it is to have the state actually enforce fair play when one side has so much more power.

What does "realistic" have to do with it?

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Bernard Guerrero's picture

Your objection would hold regardless of the state of the law, since the discrepancy in power which you see would presumably exist either way. So you're not appealing to the law. And if you are looking for power outside of the law, I think I've seen that movie and it'll end in tears.

 

In any case, one thing our current technology has made cheap and easy is the collection and dissemination of information. If one of the parties feels fair play is not being enforced, the obvious answer is to go to the instant replay, probably on Youtube.

Yep

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M Scott Eiland's picture

Getting messages out to the wider public has become orders of magnitiude cheaper and faster than it once was, and this has definitely changed the old rules as far as who has the advantaged position.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

I think it's more straightforward than that, Andrew.

(#311795)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

I've been on strike, I have no problem with people trying to do better for themselves, I've threatened to leave for a better job myself. 

 

Further, if the folks in question have difficult-to-find-or-replace skills that make them valuable, and they have the sense to stick together, I think they have a very viable strategy in place.

 

The difficulty arrives when the group is either A) created by and enforced by government fiat (e.g. the closed shop, of which I have been a part) or B) the right to strike (that is, the right to withhold your labor) is conflated with the right to deny the employer the ability to find replacements, or the right to seize the employer's property, or the right to otherwise f**k with other people who would like to conduct business with or work for the employer.

 

You get to withhold your labor.  That's it.  If enough of you withhold and the employer finds himself up a creek, them's the breaks.  You win. (We did win, Xmas season was coming and UPS management had no intention of letting things drag out. Raise for me, woohoo!)  If the strikers try to seize or damage property, harm scabs or otherwise interfere with everybody else's right to keep doing what they wish to, the strikers are in the wrong and the police should be called in.

Language, young man. tut-tut.

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I fixed it.  Otherwise I generally agree with your comment. 

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

Danke. nt

(#311832)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

Wait, wait, wait.

(#311796)

Employers get to call in the cops, the courts, Pinkertons, bring in replacements, relocate the factory, threaten the town and/or the state with lost revenue, call in political favors, lobby to have laws written or revised in their favor, and in short do everything legitimate or barely legitimate within their power to claw a few percentage points of salary and benefits out of their employees, but 

You get to withhold your labor. That's it. 

What kind of cockamamie principle is that? It sure doesn't sound like Guerrerisme. What about pressuring scabs / other employees? What about legal & political pressure? What about running negative PR to threaten the company's product & brand, organizing boycotts, cultivating xenophobia and "Made in USA" attitudes, digging through country club trash for dirt on the CEO and/or his family & extracurricular activities, muckraking journalism, internet activism or threatening a series of workers' comp lawsuits? What about work slowdowns? By what moral or ethical principle do you decide to take those tactics off the table? And why in the name of whys would you NOT USE LEGALLY ELECTED REPRESENTATION TO CHANGE THE LAW IN YOUR FAVOR?  

 

It isn't Marquess of Queensbury rules, you know. People are getting systematically gypped out of the profit from their labor and have been for decades. Cost of living increases are brutal. How are consumer goods people planning to make a profit at all once there's no more middle class with disposable income to sell product to?

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

Ah, The Joy Of Fisking

(#311799)
M Scott Eiland's picture

What kind of cockamamie principle is that?

Contract law. The list you produce afterwards largely consists of things that are extraneous to the work contract (and if the contract is up, are irrelevant--i.e., you can't file workers comp claims if you're not working for The Man any more unless you were hurt during the contract, and if you've delayed in reporting the injury you've violated your own obligations under workers comp law)

It sure doesn't sound like Guerrerisme.

Non-sequitur.

What about pressuring scabs / other employees?

Define "pressure." If the activity would be illegal otherwise, it's not legitimate as a business tactic.

What about legal & political pressure?

Again, define them. If used in a way that is illegal, it's not legitimate. If it's used in a way that constitutes abuse of power, then the politicians should have to deal with the backlash for that.

What about running negative PR to threaten the company's product & brand,

Sure, as long as defamation laws aren't violated. The way those laws are set up these days, that leaves a lot of leeway.

organizing boycotts,

Sure, as long as they don't violate any laws in doing so.

cultivating xenophobia and "Made in USA" attitudes,

Sure, but they should be prepared to be snickered at when they claim to be "progressive."

digging through country club trash for dirt on the CEO and/or his family & extracurricular activities,

extortion is still illegal in this country, the last thing I heard--I assume this wouldn't be considered kosher if directed at, say, union leaders.

muckraking journalism,

again, if consistent with defamation laws, sure (i.e., making stuff up will put said muckrakers in a world of hurt);

internet activism

Specify.

or threatening a series of workers' comp lawsuits?

If workers are injured on the job, they're entitled to workers comp under current law (which is acceptable as method of dealing with the situation, if not the only conceivable acceptable one). If they're not, threatening to file such suits is fraud and extortion and should be dealt with accordingly.

What about work slowdowns?

Breach of contract, if the contract is written competently. If it isn't, the employer brought it on themselves (or are being victimized by a badly written labor law that contemplates government shielded breach of contract)

By what moral or ethical principle do you decide to take those tactics off the table?

You're burning that straw man very prettily.

And why in the name of whys would you NOT USE LEGALLY ELECTED REPRESENTATION TO CHANGE THE LAW IN YOUR FAVOR?

There are plenty of examples as to why society as a whole shouldn't enable it. Teacher's unions come to mind.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Eiland, Eiland, Eiland

(#311800)

That you think Guerrerisme is irrelevant to this conversation shows that you have misunderstood the conversation. The whole point was to ask its author whence this sudden line in the sand over just how far organized labor can bend the rules for its own interests. 

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

IIRC, Guerrerisme is being on the winning side,

(#311804)
mmghosh's picture

it is agnostic about which the winning side is.  If organised labour is on the winning side du jour, then that's OK with a Guerreriste.

 

Its just that money and military force is always skewed against organised labour (or indigenous peoples, or minorities or other powerless groups etc) so that it almost always loses.  Even when it wins, the powerful always manage to co-opt its leaders/managers.  Since this has been the way of the world it may even be the right way to look at things. 

 

But Bernard can correct me.

Basically.

(#311833)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

Like I said, I'm fine with either party winning.  To the strongest, and the strongest is not automatically going to be management.

 

"Its just that money and military force is always skewed against organised labour"

 

There I have to disagree.  As I said, I've been part of successful strikes, and UPS is not exactly a pushover.  Management is largely drawn from the ranks of drivers1, so there's always a ready-made pool of folks that can deliver in an emergency. (This time of year it isn't at all uncommon for them to join the labor pool.) But even under those circumstances, it often simply isn't worth it to management or the ownership to fight. And military force, or rather, the government's monopoly on legitimate force, should only enter into the equation when defending either party's rights, property or otherwise.

 

FN1 - Line managers, at least. Specialists like accountants obviously have to have specialized training/education. Even then, though, the culture holds. Right before graduation I interned in UPS Accounting and half of those guys were ex-drivers who had gotten accounting degrees.

Oh, alright.

(#311798)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

"What about legal & political pressure? What about running negative PR to threaten the company's product & brand, organizing boycotts, cultivating xenophobia and "Made in USA" attitudes, digging through country club trash for dirt on the CEO and/or his family & extracurricular activities, muckraking journalism, internet activism or threatening a series of workers' comp lawsuits?"

 

That all seams within the realm of stuff the strikers & friends can do within the realm of their own rights.

 

"What about pressuring scabs / other employees?"

 

Pressure how?  Pressure like "Jeez, Jim, you need to stick with us, we're your people." seems fine.  Pressure like "Nice kneecaps ya got there, Jim, shame if anything happened to 'em." is clearly terroristic threats.

 

"What about work slowdowns?"

 

Not with my factory, you're not.  And therein lies the answer to your broader question.  Property rights are vitally important to the workings of the polity, fundamental and of long standing, and I see no reason to abrogate them based on the whims of some some guys looking to get some extra bucks.

That's more like it.

(#311801)

For a minute there I thought you'd gone all libertarian on us. 

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

Actually, I think the rules....

(#311830)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

....as I stated them, including your additions, are basically libertarian-friendly. Neither party may coerce, property rights are not violated, the power of the state may not be invoked to either support or crush the attempt to organize and/or withhold labor.

I think political pressure, lobbying, etc.

(#311834)

violates the real core principle of libertarianism, which is to stop government economic interference of any kind. 

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

Force And Fraud Are Still Valid Targets

(#311835)
M Scott Eiland's picture

Of course, trying to stretch those terms beyond recognition is going to be slapped down, hard.

The universe may well have been created without a point--that doesn't imply that we can't give it one.

Those are criminal, not economic targets.

(#311846)

I personally have no problem stretching the terms a bit to cover obviously exploitive behavior that has found or written legal sanction for itself, but I would expect Guerrerisme to go well beyond those limits, bounded only by diminishing returns where legal manipulation undermines the faith of one's fellow suckers citizens in the law. 

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

Ah, I misunderstood what you were aiming at.

(#311888)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

I thought we were discussing appropriate formal rules. From a Guerreriste standpoint, it practically goes without saying that both parties will try to push those rules whenever possible, to the extent that it doesn't seem likely to backfire. :^)

Thank God. I thought the world had gone mad for

(#311889)

a minute.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

I'm glad I didn't force you...

(#311900)
Bernard Guerrero's picture

....to start playing "The World Turned Upside Down".

Libertarian friends?

(#311774)
HankP's picture

What's in it for them?

 

I blame it all on the Internet

Well, the fact that you have libertarian friends

(#311763)

doesn't speak well of your judgment.  Doubly so in that you can apply the word 'lot' in any form or fashion :) 

Just my $.02, I have no issue with non-government workers unionizing, and I have an issue with the use of violence by either side.  I don't want the government to be a neutral arbiter, it won't be, I'm not even sure it can be.  I also don't want the government to prop up either side which pretty much leaves me with the government simply enforcing contracts and prosecuting dirty tactics.

 

 

 

 

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

Possibly the greatest ad for baked beans ever produced.

(#311729)

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

I think we can drop the 'possibly' qualifier

(#311730)

.

Korean student troubles

(#311724)

It's been interesting teaching at a Korean University this fall, including my students' excuses for missing exams:

 

"Dear Professor, I was unable to attend the final exam this morning because I got an eye injury last night when a birthday firework accidentally hit my left eye"

Your class is inappropriate for one-eyed students?

(#311733)
aireachail's picture

What are you teaching over there?

Philosopheye?

(#311734)

nt

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

Gnoseeology?

(#311735)
aireachail's picture

.

"Ow my eye! I'm not supposed to get fireworks in it!"

(#311727)
brutusettu's picture

Fireworks sounds better than overslept or "sunbae made me drink", or will that student have burn wounds to their eye when you see the kid?  Then whose laughing.

"Jazz, the music of unemployment."

 

Frank Zappa

That's a Simpson's reference, right?

(#311737)

I thought it was milhouse, but now I'm having my doubts

Aye, The Simpsons

(#311739)
brutusettu's picture

Lenny Leonard, not Mihouse Van Houten

"Jazz, the music of unemployment."

 

Frank Zappa

An eyepatch. No one ever questions an eyepatch. -nt-

(#311728)

.

"Hell is truth seen too late." --Thomas Hobbes

So he was partying the night before a final.

(#311725)

I've done it, but we'd be ice skating in hell before I ever told a prof that I was partying the night before his final. 

 

I'd crush him.  Not because he was partying before a final.  Not because he lacked the tact to avoid telling you he was partying before a final.  But because of 'accidentally', y'know just in case you might have suspected he hit his left eye with a firework on purpose.  That's just disrespectful.

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

Wa-wha-WHAT!?!?!

(#311743)
HankP's picture

You went to college? So all that working class hero anti-intellekshual stuff has all been a POSE?

 

I am disappointed.

 

I blame it all on the Internet

You hate me for my beauty

(#311757)

I'm going to let you in on something.  The whole Sith Lord thing is a pose.  I know, I know, you didn't see that coming.   I mean, I have some sithish qualities, but they aren't due to some dark side power. I can choke a guy from across the room but it's because I can throw a chicken nugget with godlike accuracy.  My wife took a kickboxing lesson once, so one could say I have a Thai Fighter.  I've held a light saber but it was designed for cavalry, not Sith Lords.

 

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

Best excuse ever

(#311726)

(although I only heard it second hand) was from an SMU student:  "My father was shot in the face by the Vice President".

I had to ask for a delay on a midterm once.

(#311732)

I had a condition requiring frequent visits to the loo.  Not wanting to get into details I told the prof I was sick.  He asked what was wrong.  I told him it was my guts.  He asked what was wrong again.  I said It's. My. Guts. thinking he got the idea.  He asked what was wrong again, at which point I suspected he didn't believe me.  So I said, "Look, I can come in.  Within 15 minutes you'll be convinced I'm sick and we'll both have a memorable experience that you, me and a janitor can laugh about in a few weeks.  But do we really need to go through that?"

He said, "Ahhhhhh! Whadda ya think, 48 hours ought to do it?" 

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome. 

I feel a little bad for Manish

(#311736)

His diary contains substantive links followed by brief commentaries that are perfectly suited to launch serious discussions and we've filled up the comments with farts, poop, and Beyonce.

Well there are two things to consider

(#311738)

First is that Mannish made it an open thread.  That's kind of playing with fire.  Second was that it had something to do with Canada.  I was 35 before I learned that it wasn't pronounced Can-uh-daaaaaahhhhhhhhh.  I thought that accent on the last syllable was supposed to be there, not realizing that it's actually reflexive yawn pronounced by Americans.

In the medical community, death is known as Chuck Norris Syndrome.